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Old June 13th, 2017, 12:18 AM   #15441
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That's the current situation. As far as I know a customs union was created in 1957 with the Treaty of Rome (establishment of the EEC).
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Old June 13th, 2017, 12:41 AM   #15442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachi View Post
That's the current situation. As far as I know a customs union was created in 1957 with the Treaty of Rome (establishment of the EEC).
The Rome Treaty was signed in 1957, but the EEC was established in Jan 1, 1958.

The Single Market established in 1993 is not exactly the same thing as the EU Customs Union (in capital letters) but it might be thought as a customs union (in lowercase letters) plus something more.

Because the systems is overly complex and multi-layered, I would forgive minor errors in the terminology.
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Old June 13th, 2017, 02:41 AM   #15443
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Just a coincidental Maps find: Spanish flag on Swiss-German border

Buch (CH) -> Gottmadingen (D)



Building does not look like a customs house, probably some individual's flag.
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Old June 13th, 2017, 02:31 PM   #15444
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Re: MattiG's post - I wonder where we, the British, will be when the lunatics finally take over the asylum!
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Old June 13th, 2017, 05:00 PM   #15445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
I thought there was a customs union between France and (West) Germany prior to the common zone.
This is one of the strange things during the history of the EU. The Customs Union started in 1968, but customs checks on internal EU borders only ended in 1993 with the implementation of the Single European Act.

Basically, between 1968 and 1993, while goods could be imported/exported between EEC members freely and without tariffs, they were still controlled and limited for personal use. There was no common EEC VAT system, for instance.

Before 1993, there were some agreements that made many borders quieter, for instance, this was where the "One Stop Control" concept came from in the 1980's, as inspections were made at a common location. As some pictures show, many of the internal EEC borders started to become irrelevant at this point for people travelling by land.

This article is worth a read - many of the things that are now normal in the EU simply didn't exist in 1988. http://archive.fortune.com/magazines...0142/index.htm
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Old June 13th, 2017, 05:33 PM   #15446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post


Picture of the F-D border at Neulauterburg in 1987.



An interesting follow up from a previous post. This is the DDR border at Zinnwald in 1990, which today looks completely different with the exception of the old Czech customs house.

This is from the other side - https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.73420...7i13312!8i6656

It's interesting how primitive the DDR border was, even compared to the Czech side.
To compare:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
Photos taken last August - I was gonna upload them a long time ago, but now I finally managed to find time for it.

The former Lauterbourg-Neulauterburg border crossing at the French-German border.

Actually, the whole town (Lauterbourg) is in France. Just a few houses + a complex of supermarkets (Neulauterburg - "New Lauterbourg") are located in Germany.

Going from France, just before the border, the road crosses a small river. But, assuming that Google Maps is right, the actual crossing is some tens of meters (maybe 100 m) behind it.

The bridge from the French side:



On the bridge:



A look back at France:



It's actually between the river and the border (although I did not know that taking the photos):



Eurodistrict Pamina:



So, actually, the "euro"-sign is in the proper place - where it stands, Bundesrepublik Deutschland begins:



A look back again - this is France:



A close look at the beginning of Germany:



The French speed limits sign:



The former customs pavilion - now a restaurant:



And a museum (sorry for quality, the only way to take this photo was to the sun):



From what I understand - electric bike charger. And the rear side of a cigarettes vending machine:



So France begins behind this intersection, to the left:



The German speed limits sign is located not just at the border, but at the exit from the Neulauterburg town:

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Old June 14th, 2017, 03:03 AM   #15447
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Austro-Hungarian Border near Pan-European Picnic location
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Old June 14th, 2017, 10:55 AM   #15448
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Another one for the collection of lesser-known old crossings in Europe.



This is the crossing of Kapciamiestis - Berżniki (LT-PL) -
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przej%...C4%8Diamiestis - it was only open for less than 16 months, and it doesn't seem to have had any real use. It wasn't open for vehicle traffic, so it's not like it had any forestry use.

An interesting side point - the USSR appeared to have fortified the Polish-Lithuanian SSR border with electric wire fences in the 1980's.

And a nice collection of photos from the Lazdijai-Ogrodniki (LT-PL) border from 1990 (I think...). The large customs shed visible in some of the pictures is still there - I think it's one of the very few original USSR-era border crossings that hasn't been demolished.








No idea where this is from, but could it be from the Lithuanian side of the Budzisko–Kalvarija crossing?

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Last edited by Eulanthe; June 14th, 2017 at 11:03 AM.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 06:56 PM   #15449
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Have taken Barcelona-Paris return flight. In France, some police on arriving but noticed that previous security controls are stronger in Spain (and awful). In Spain when back, due to Schengen flight... just seen one officer and do not remember a desk about something to declare.

Passengers were mixed with boarding ones before leaving.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 07:19 PM   #15450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvinus View Post
Just a coincidental Maps find: Spanish flag on Swiss-German border

Buch (CH) -> Gottmadingen (D)



Building does not look like a customs house, probably some individual's flag.
Maybe an old customs house which is now a cottage and was hosting Spanish guests at the time the photo was taken?

BTW, I've just learnt that there's a Spanish name for Schaffhausen: Escafusa. It's weird that the Spanish version of Google Maps uses the local name, while they use archaic names for many other places. For instance, Lubeca for Lübeck or Leópolis for Lviv. It's so ridiculous that they even use the old-fashioned names for some cities in the US named after cities in the Old World. E.g. Syracuse, NY appears as "Siracusa"
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Old June 14th, 2017, 07:25 PM   #15451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Another one for the collection of lesser-known old crossings in Europe.



This is the crossing of Kapciamiestis - Berżniki (LT-PL) -
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przej%...C4%8Diamiestis - it was only open for less than 16 months, and it doesn't seem to have had any real use. It wasn't open for vehicle traffic, so it's not like it had any forestry use.

An interesting side point - the USSR appeared to have fortified the Polish-Lithuanian SSR border with electric wire fences in the 1980's.

And a nice collection of photos from the Lazdijai-Ogrodniki (LT-PL) border from 1990 (I think...). The large customs shed visible in some of the pictures is still there - I think it's one of the very few original USSR-era border crossings that hasn't been demolished.








No idea where this is from, but could it be from the Lithuanian side of the Budzisko–Kalvarija crossing?

Did Soviets needed visa to travel to the People's Republic of Poland and vice-versa?
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Old June 14th, 2017, 07:49 PM   #15452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
Maybe an old customs house which is now a cottage and was hosting Spanish guests at the time the photo was taken?
I do not know... half of "known people" going to Switzerland are investigated due to corruption.


Quote:
BTW, I've just learnt that there's a Spanish name for Schaffhausen: Escafusa. It's weird that the Spanish version of Google Maps uses the local name, while they use archaic names for many other places. For instance, Lubeca for Lübeck or Leópolis for Lviv. It's so ridiculous that they even use the old-fashioned names for some cities in the US named after cities in the Old World. E.g. Syracuse, NY appears as "Siracusa"

Sometimes they are Google translations. I hate it. For instance, Lille (F) is translated into Lila. I do not know who invented it and its history.

There are, indeed, few French cities with translations (Marseille, Bordeaux,... and Toulouse it has but not used) and cities and towns located near border can be translated (Hendaye - Hendaya) or cannot (Sant Jean Pied de Port is not translated).


About city names in world we could talk a lot. For instance, Los Angeles = The Angels, San Francisco = Saint Francis, La Paz = The Peace, Buenos Aires = Good Airs, Santiago = Saint James and in Portuguese... Rio de Janeiro = January River!!!!!!

but let's talk about borders better, not languages.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 08:14 PM   #15453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
BTW, I've just learnt that there's a Spanish name for Schaffhausen: Escafusa. It's weird that the Spanish version of Google Maps uses the local name, while they use archaic names for many other places. For instance, Lubeca for Lübeck or Leópolis for Lviv. It's so ridiculous that they even use the old-fashioned names for some cities in the US named after cities in the Old World. E.g. Syracuse, NY appears as "Siracusa"
Some time ago (2 years or so) Google Maps started to show the Polish names of foreign cities and towns when used in the Polish version. In case of smaller towns, those names are not known so much, especially while talking about Czech Republic, Slovakia or Germany. Also some Polish names of bigger cities are not much known, like not everyone in Poland knows that the Polish name of Aachen is Akwizgran. I know Poles who were, for example, in Aachen for Erasmus, and they were always telling they are going to Aachen, not that they go to Akwizgran. Or the Poles living in Germany (especially in Cologne) often use the German name of the city: Köln, not the Polish name: Kolonia.

It's different in the East. Poles will always call Lviv Lwów and nothing else, or Vilnius will always be called Wilno. Kaunas - Kowno. Probably because of the history - those lands used to be Polish or kind-of-Polish (Lithuanian while Poland was in union with Lithuania; Lithuania was then a country bigger than Poland, covering much of the area not only of the current Lithuania, but also Belarus and Ukraine, almost reaching the Black Sea), some of those people are descendants of people living there when those areas were Polish. It's a very different kind of diaspora than the Poles living in the West. The diaspora in the West is a result of economic migration, the diaspora in the East - of changes of the borders of countries.
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Old June 15th, 2017, 01:01 AM   #15454
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But this is also dying. Most people will say Iwano-Frankiwsk rather than Stanisławów, and even places close to the border like Mościska are called that rather than the former Mostyszcza / Mostycze. Does anyone even use Królewiec these days?

On the other hand, Lithuanian seems to be much more insane about it. Balstogė or Ščecinas anyone?

Just spotted the question by "Junkie" about visas - as far as I know, they were restricted in the same way as people from the West were. It was a pretty silly situation, but the USSR didn't trust "friendly" countries as much as they didn't trust the West. That's why the USSR had a very nasty border fence on the border with her "socialist comrades".

Last edited by Eulanthe; June 15th, 2017 at 01:08 AM.
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Old June 15th, 2017, 02:16 AM   #15455
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Królewiec is a different case because the name was simply changed. Kaliningrad is not the Russian equivalent of Królewiec or Königsberg, it's named by a Soviet politician.

It's a similar case as Łódź named Litzmanntadt during the Hitler's occupation, by a Nazi politician. The name Lodz was used in German before the WW2 and it's used again in this language since the end of the war. Litzmannstadt was a special propaganda name invented by Nazists. And the same is with Kaliningrad - it's a name established by the communist propaganda and it should actually be changed. It would have been changed already for many years if the city wasn't located in Russia.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 04:55 PM   #15456
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Another day, another historic border crossing. This time from the crossing of Kostrzyn (PL) - Kustrin Kietz (DE) in 1999, looking into Poland. This crossing only actually opened in 1991, as the border bridge was under the control of the Soviet Army up until that point. Interestingly, you can see that the Polish and German officers were working together here, which wasn't the case at many other border crossings until Poland joined the EU.

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Old June 19th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #15457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Did Soviets needed visa to travel to the People's Republic of Poland and vice-versa?
First you needed an exit visa and only then you could worry about the other country letting you in.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 08:42 PM   #15458
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Old June 20th, 2017, 12:21 AM   #15459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
I do not know... half of "known people" going to Switzerland are investigated due to corruption.

Sometimes they are Google translations. I hate it. For instance, Lille (F) is translated into Lila. I do not know who invented it and its history.

There are, indeed, few French cities with translations (Marseille, Bordeaux,... and Toulouse it has but not used) and cities and towns located near border can be translated (Hendaye - Hendaya) or cannot (Sant Jean Pied de Port is not translated).

About city names in world we could talk a lot. For instance, Los Angeles = The Angels, San Francisco = Saint Francis, La Paz = The Peace, Buenos Aires = Good Airs, Santiago = Saint James and in Portuguese... Rio de Janeiro = January River!!!!!!

but let's talk about borders better, not languages.
Try Chinese cities. Some examples: Beijing = Northern Capital, Shanghai = Over the Sea, Guangzhou = Wide State, Xi'an = Western Peace, Changsha = Long Sands, etc. But better talk about border crossings here.
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Old June 21st, 2017, 11:25 AM   #15460
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Closed border crossing between Spain and Gibraltar in 1977

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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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