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Old July 16th, 2017, 03:25 PM   #15581
italystf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Photography is not allowed on this stretch.
I don't think it's an issue anymore.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #15582
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but why is it fenced?
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Old July 16th, 2017, 03:44 PM   #15583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
but why is it fenced?
Because it was built during Yugoslavia.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 05:22 PM   #15584
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OK, I got it.

Is it maintained?.
This is... if nowadays it has nonsense, they could say it is expensive to take it out but not to erase all maintenance and, as soon as any stretch is down, erase it
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Old July 16th, 2017, 05:35 PM   #15585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
OK, I got it.

Is it maintained?.
This is... if nowadays it has nonsense, they could say it is expensive to take it out but not to erase all maintenance and, as soon as any stretch is down, erase it
The fence has an utility until 2007, when Slovenia joined Schengen area. They didn't bother to remove it since, I don't know if they want to preserve it for historical reasons.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 05:38 PM   #15586
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There are still some sections of fence between Gorizia and Nova Gorica. Totally useless, as you can simply walk around them, but still there.
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.95393...7i13312!8i6656
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 10:16 PM   #15587
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Isn't that area around the road still a military zone in Italy? Maybe that's why it's fenced? I don't understand why they haven't removed the fence between the two towns, though.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 11:49 PM   #15588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Are there places in Europe (or elsewhere) where a motorway/freeway/whatever crosses an international border, from what we'll call country A to country B, then soon crosses back into A without having any exits and the like in B, so that it's A's road running on B's territory? (Like Interstate 684's dip into Connecticut*, but involving different countries?)
Here's another case between Germany and Switzerland (posts from October 2013):

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The so-called "Zollfreistraße" (costums-free road) was opened for traffic today. The route is on Swiss territory and connects the German towns of Weil am Rhein and Lörrach (OSM). The road has a length of 735m and contains a 570m tunnel. The first contract b/n Germany and Switzerland was signed 155 years ago. The final treaty was signed in 1977 and the German plan approval order was passed in 1981. The construction was started in 2006 - after years of protest. Total costs: 59 million €.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
7,5 years of construction for 735 meters of road? My god that is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Els Limits - Le Perthus (E-F)

First sign says in Catalan and French, be aware where you are buying parking ticket. French ones are only valid in France and Spanish ones are valid only in Spain (and I guess that in holidays in one country, everyone will park there cos free!!!)

Border is just small wall you have between cars.
Your reply is totally unrelated to the question you were pretending to answer.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 02:03 AM   #15589
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Cypriot motorways A3 and A6 cross Akrotiri and Dhekelia (UK). There are also some roads crossing the Slovenian-Croatian border a few times.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 03:17 PM   #15590
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According to a debate in a Spanish thread, I found a mistake in google

https://www.google.es/maps/@42.96677.../data=!3m1!1e3

This road doesn't enter for a while in France but keeps boundaring it (should you get off and walk norht, in that point, in just a couple of metres you crossed the border)

In addition, border is also a fake. It is enough to see the signals on road to be where they are different (and easier... enough to see that it is in the own mountain pass).


More... I remember someone asking if country wasn't written in Spain or was. In this case, neither Spain, nor France have posted a sign with international border, just the name of French department and Spanish region (this one far away from border and after several signs remembering to be careful going down)
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Old July 18th, 2017, 08:19 PM   #15591
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Is this true?

http://www.lastampa.it/2017/07/18/so...KI/pagina.html

For the non-Italian speakers, the article talks about the Isla de los Faisanes on the river Bidasoa. They claim it belongs half a year to Spain, the other half to France.

How nonsense is that?
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Old July 18th, 2017, 08:35 PM   #15592
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https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5XR93M4YA...a+Paz+1659.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-umks9XV0ka...na-francia.jpg
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Old July 18th, 2017, 08:55 PM   #15593
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What an amazing and curious situation about Isla de los Faisanes.
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Old July 18th, 2017, 09:10 PM   #15594
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Well, it's true.
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Old July 18th, 2017, 10:47 PM   #15595
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The same both cities are known because main cross in the Atlantic coast between France and Spain. I remembered going to France and joining with several mates there... but in the French station because it was very easy to arrive from motorway. Irun one is a messy traffic indeed and lost a lot of times (and they are barely 1 km away each one).

What it is to have a look if... how many planes will NOT enter in French territory providing direction south they reach hills in a couple of km and direction north, the whole sea and easy to fly?

https://www.google.es/maps/place/Ir%....7888483?hl=es
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Old July 19th, 2017, 12:02 PM   #15596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Is this true?

http://www.lastampa.it/2017/07/18/so...KI/pagina.html

For the non-Italian speakers, the article talks about the Isla de los Faisanes on the river Bidasoa. They claim it belongs half a year to Spain, the other half to France.

How nonsense is that?
This dates back to the Treaty of the Pyrenees in the 17th Century, which was signed there at the Pheasant Island. The Treaty made the island a condominium, and France and Spain have sovereignty over it in alternating periods of six months each. Currently Pheasant Island belongs to Spain, but we will lose it to France at the end of this month, and take it back in February.

The Treaty of the Pyrenees also established the current border between Spain and France. All villages North of the line became part of France... but Llivia was already a town, and thus it remained in Spain, creating the current exclave.
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Old July 19th, 2017, 12:38 PM   #15597
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I wonder how was the status of Llivia during Franco regime, when Spain was isolated from the rest of the world and the French-Spanish border was one of the most militarized and least accessible borders in Europe (similar to Iron Curtain borders).
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 19th, 2017, 01:16 PM   #15598
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http://cloud10.todocoleccion.online/...3/80790270.jpg
llivia border at 1939


old neutral road
https://goo.gl/maps/4XsSbHwUGAU2
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Last edited by VITORIA MAN; July 19th, 2017 at 01:34 PM.
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Old July 19th, 2017, 01:25 PM   #15599
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I wonder how was the status of Llivia during Franco regime, when Spain was isolated from the rest of the world and the French-Spanish border was one of the most militarized and least accessible borders in Europe (similar to Iron Curtain borders).
Spanish border:

To approach border (not in the late 60ish but yeah before) it was compulsory to have a visa. It wasn't a passport, just a document that allowed you to approach about 40ish km to the border!!! (and never mind which border and which country). People who had in their documentation that were living there needn't to have it

In the custom booths... all cars were stopped and only people who had in their documents that they were going to Llivia were allowed to go on (anyway, you could have a check as if a border crossing was... and police made many questions in those years)


French border:

Due to free way to Llivia, French police decided to not to ask passport to Spanish plates cars, providing they wanted to cross there to go to the border. They built another road besides the border without interchange. Later, in the main cross, all citizens had to go forward Llivia. Should they turn left or right, they will be stopped and requested their passport. If it wasn't stamped it was illegal inmigration in France (this is... should a Spanish wanted to use that border crossing to enter into France, they had to stop at booths, even if he was entitled to go to Llivia without questions, and request a formal entrance into France)
For other cars, conversely... they stopped all of them and if they said they were going to Llivia they will be free to go without passport control or car checking... but the same... not going to Llivia = illegal inmigration in France. And for them it was as easy as to see passport stamp half an hour before.


When traffic jumped, a stop signal was set in the road and Llivia citizens destroyed it once and again. They said they were free to reach their village and didn't had to yield traffic to another cars... therefore, French authorities built a roundabout and easy... car inside, nevermind where they come, where they go, where they are making tours and tours inside roundabout has preference!!!


Nowadays... in the boundaring town in Spain, about 1,5 km away from border there is a hospital that can be used by French people. There weren't enough people to build a hospital but adding people from both countries, it is enough!!!

and of course, roads have increased and you can freely cross border wherever you want (even if free cross is pointed only in one specific road indeed)
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Old July 19th, 2017, 09:26 PM   #15600
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Talking about exclaves, I'm gonna post several pics about excalves and enclaves.
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