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Old July 25th, 2017, 09:53 PM   #15621
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Look at 2:17. I think not.
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Old July 25th, 2017, 09:56 PM   #15622
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Those so called self proclaimed borders were not international nor state borders, and they were part of only one socialist republic because in SFRY there were republican borders and it was in the constitution that the republican borders were drawn.
It is really funny how someone proclaims its own borders in a war zone and the others are asking if its (was) possible to pass there.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 12:26 AM   #15623
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OSM recognizes the sovereign principality of Liberland
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/45.7668/18.8714
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 11:49 PM   #15624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
Yeah, I never got how Catalan authorities can put up signage in just one of the official languages and get away with it (literally everywhere). In Euskadi, where I Erasmus-ed, they are very particular about such things and signage is bilingual in all places.
Actually many rural areas have Basque-only signage. Example.
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Old July 27th, 2017, 12:38 AM   #15625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palance View Post
Was it possible to cross the border between Hungary and Krajina?
Yes. The RSK borders were never formally closed, not with Croatia or other countries. Generally speaking, passage was possible if you had the right connections or the right papers.

Of course, reality on the ground meant that Croats or Germans were absolutely unwelcome in the RSK, but for those not connected to the war or from "friendly" countries (like Russia), they could go to the RSK. The problem was that many of the paramilitaries operating there were a law onto themselves, so you could easily find yourself in trouble if you encountered a drunk local commander at a checkpoint.

But from a purely academic point of view, the borders were open both ways. Croatia didn't recognise the RSK (and their attitude was very much like the West's attitude towards East Berlin - "we're here, and if you want to go there, it's none of our business") and the RSK was desperate for recognition, so they didn't seal the borders, though it would have been nearly impossible for them to do so anyway.

I think the Croatian-Yugoslav border was formally closed in Konavle though after the Yugoslav withdrawal.

From what I can tell, the reason for the border crossing being empty there is simply because the RSK was really ruined economically, and many people wouldn't have had passports recognised for travel, as they would have been expected to hold Croatian, not Yugoslav passports. Likewise, there would have been little of interest in the RSK for Hungarians.

What I've always wondered about was how border controls functioned between the RSK and the Republika Srpska. For sure they existed, but how and in what form, I have no idea.
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Old July 27th, 2017, 01:31 AM   #15626
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I'm pretty sure that nobody would ever have thought to venture in those lands during the war, except locals, militaries, aid workers and journalists, as the area was an extremely dangerous war zone, where you could have been killed on the street. Zagreb, Rijeka and Pula were probably the last places one could go normally. So it's obvious that there was no regular touristic/commercial traffic at those border crossings.

Kraijna republic was made by two different areas not connected each other: one in Dalmatia, that was returned to Croatia in 1995, and the other in Slavonia (with the infamous Vukovar), that remained under Yugoslav occupation until 1998.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old July 27th, 2017, 01:39 AM   #15627
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Why Pula? Afaik Istria was not hit by the war...
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Old July 27th, 2017, 11:45 AM   #15628
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Why Pula? Afaik Istria was not hit by the war...
Yes, the area between Istria, Kvarner and Zagreb was not affected by war, while going south towards Lika and Dalmatia or east towards Slavonia was dangerous, as there were fightings between Croat and Yugoslav army.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 27th, 2017, 02:23 PM   #15629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Yes, the area between Istria, Kvarner and Zagreb was not affected by war, while going south towards Lika and Dalmatia or east towards Slavonia was dangerous, as there were fightings between Croat and Yugoslav army.
After the breakout there was a long period of somehow peace with just some minor fightings on occasion. But yeah, there were not much foreign people in this area. However, that was a different situation than in RSK at all.
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Old July 27th, 2017, 09:19 PM   #15630
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Dörflingen (CH) -> Randegg (D). This is a very local road, thus there are no facilities and permanent staff despite being an EU external and therefore a customs border. The Swiss post an extra sign for reminding travelers they are only allowed to cross if nothing to declare (i.e. only goods within the duty-free allowance). The Germans post a simple and clear Bundesadler.

1. looking into Germany




2. looking back into Switzerland. The border marker carries the Swiss cross, half outshone by the evening sun.




3. Close-up of the Swiss customs information sign

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Old July 27th, 2017, 11:37 PM   #15631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Yes, the area between Istria, Kvarner and Zagreb was not affected by war, while going south towards Lika and Dalmatia or east towards Slavonia was dangerous, as there were fightings between Croat and Yugoslav army.
Karlovac was in war, so I'm not sure if you could've travelled from Zagreb to Rijeka (except through Slovenia). Croats should know.
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Old July 28th, 2017, 01:07 AM   #15632
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Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
After the breakout there was a long period of somehow peace with just some minor fightings on occasion. But yeah, there were not much foreign people in this area. However, that was a different situation than in RSK at all.
Dubrovnik was heavily bombed by Serbs/Yugoslavs, and also Zadar, Split and Sibenik (in a lesser extent).
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 28th, 2017, 10:27 AM   #15633
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Sweden/Norway border on highway E12

Pics taken by me.



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Old July 28th, 2017, 10:28 PM   #15634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I'm pretty sure that nobody would ever have thought to venture in those lands during the war, except locals, militaries, aid workers and journalists, as the area was an extremely dangerous war zone, where you could have been killed on the street.
It wasn't that bad, as long as the locals had no reason to hate you and you stayed away from the front lines. If you were - for example - Hungarian and travelling through to your friend in one of the suburbs of Vukovar, then you wouldn't have been at any harm.

Quote:
Zagreb, Rijeka and Pula were probably the last places one could go normally. So it's obvious that there was no regular touristic/commercial traffic at those border crossings.
They were all quite ok during the war. Zagreb was only attacked a couple of times at the beginning and end of the war, Rijeka was nowhere near the front line, neither was Pula. There was still tourism to Istria during the war, as the really dangerous parts were in the hinterland. Even Split/Zadar were safe once the Yugoslav Navy withdrew, though it was quite dangerous to go there overland due to the fighting in Lika.

There was definitely commercial traffic going through these border crossings - a lot of goods were smuggled in from both Hungary and Romania into Serbia and the RSK. In particular, a lot of fuel went through Hungary, Romania and Serbia into the Republika Srpska in spite of the sanctions against Serbia.

It's also worth pointing out that the areas not on the front line were pretty calm. If you were Hungarian and delivering petrol to Vukovar in 1993, it's unlikely that anyone would have bothered you, except needing to bribe your way by the Hungarian border guards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
Karlovac was in war, so I'm not sure if you could've travelled from Zagreb to Rijeka (except through Slovenia). Croats should know.
You could, as Sajinovic (in the south of Karlovac) was the front line. Karlovac itself was shelled quite a lot, but it was still possible to move between Zagreb and Istria freely.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 12:36 AM   #15635
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Dubrovnik was heavily bombed by Serbs/Yugoslavs, and also Zadar, Split and Sibenik (in a lesser extent).
Yes, but that was mainly at the outbreak of the war in 1991. From End of 1991 to early of 1993 there was a ceasefire and there were just a few fightings and military operations (mostly of the Croatian army to take back land). And at the end of the war, RSK had no power for any bigger impact since the JNA retreated early 1992 from Croatia.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 02:04 AM   #15636
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
OSM recognizes the sovereign principality of Liberland
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/45.7668/18.8714
Until recently there were 8 small terrae nullius between Slovenia and Croatia along the Mura river, but no one noticed. In fact, since Croatia doesn't recognize the result of the arbitration, there is a new small terra nullius formed. Someone should hurry up and take it. It has a big chance to succeed, because unlike Liberland, this place really isn't wanted by either state. Unfortunately it measures just 0.06 km2.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 02:47 PM   #15637
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Yes because that result favor SLO. So they are not recognizing it.
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MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS

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Old July 31st, 2017, 06:52 PM   #15638
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Do you remember the case of the tiny island that belongs to Spain for 6 months and back to France for another 6 months?

Here's a little bit more about its history.

Tomorrow it will be French again... for next six months.

It is the smallest case of binational area in the world as the article says




https://politica.elpais.com/politica...mple&link=guid
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Old July 31st, 2017, 09:45 PM   #15639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I'm pretty sure that nobody would ever have thought to venture in those lands during the war, except locals, militaries, aid workers and journalists, as the area was an extremely dangerous war zone, where you could have been killed on the street. Zagreb, Rijeka and Pula were probably the last places one could go normally. So it's obvious that there was no regular touristic/commercial traffic at those border crossings.

Kraijna republic was made by two different areas not connected each other: one in Dalmatia, that was returned to Croatia in 1995, and the other in Slavonia (with the infamous Vukovar), that remained under Yugoslav occupation until 1998.
exactly. nobody had to do anything in those occupied teritories because it was heavy war zone. on the other hand, since that Krajina thing was never internationaly recognized, their citizens were allowed to have only documents of the soveirign country on whose land they lived: Croatia. Krajina didn't recognize nor accept Croatian documents, and they didn't allow anybody to enter there with Croatian documents. so basically, if one would exit from there, could not return (but there was also no reasons to return there to the war zone, nobody even tried it).
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Old July 31st, 2017, 10:48 PM   #15640
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As far as I know it was, especially during the last year of thr war, possible to cross the border on the highway Zagreb-Beograd, which ran partly through RSK-territory.
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