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Old August 18th, 2017, 02:11 PM   #15661
alserrod
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Did the recent attack changed the procedures on the border in Spain?
No (and Catalonia keeps border with Andorra and France... but nothing changed. They focus in a strong surveillance over Barcelona and with the idea that all collaborators are in the surroundings. One brother of one attacker has been catched in a town not far from France and seems they had a little infrastructure there)
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Old August 18th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #15662
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But Catalonia is not even a separate country so why should Catalonia keep those international borders? I don't understand this and also what I find weird is the fact that, at least what I can see, Spain is not meddling in this incident but anyway Catalonia is part of Spain...
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Old August 18th, 2017, 08:06 PM   #15663
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But Catalonia is not even a separate country so why should Catalonia keep those international borders? I don't understand this and also what I find weird is the fact that, at least what I can see, Spain is not meddling in this incident but anyway Catalonia is part of Spain...
It is a quite complex situation... first of all, it is known that part of political side in Catalonia wanna make a poll to ask independence. Another issue is if they would be recognised and, being independent means not belonging to EU from minute 0 at first, what they wanna avoid too (these politicians really wanna all).

Anyway, some regions have their own polices (and all main towns and cities have local polices... for local issues) which could be a nightmare for a foreing indeed!

Catalonia has a strong police force who have dealed almost all about incidents (have read that Guardia civil has played in the town where first explosions took place).

The issue is if it is about national security. Something like in the US would be for FBI or state police... in this case it is being the state police for almost all things.

By constitution, borders cannot be "transferred" to regional governments and remain kept by national police. This month, Barcelona airport has had a regular surveillors strike (after tense days they went down on strike after attacks). It was national police (civil guard indeed) who went to inforce situation because it is a border.

French border has no controls. In Andorra they just check inmigration for goods by civil guard (and it is weird... this force is who fines in roads in the rest of Spain except in Catalonia and Basque country, if you see a civil guard there you know it is a custom control, a Catalan police, road control...)

A friend worked in Reus airport as national police officer. He said it was a nightmare:
- passport control, dealed by national police
- baggage control, dealed by civil guard
- security inside airport, dealed by Catalan police
- traffic control, (to be fined if bad parking, for instance), dealed by Reus local police!!!



Anyway, as difference with French attacks, really not special controls on airports, stations, borders or so...
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Old August 19th, 2017, 10:22 PM   #15664
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On exit from Serbia to Croatia waiting times were 7+ hours today http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index....nav_id=1294819
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Old August 19th, 2017, 10:35 PM   #15665
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Why so long? And wasn't it possible to make a detour and use another checkpoint? Probably even going through Bosnia (with doubled control) would be faster than 7 hours of waiting.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 10:45 PM   #15666
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Why so long? And wasn't it possible to make a detour and use another checkpoint? Probably even going through Bosnia (with doubled control) would be faster than 7 hours of waiting.
Double check control is there also, you get single control only on Croatia-Slovenia border. That route is always overcrowded due to many "gastarbeiters"
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Old August 20th, 2017, 12:12 AM   #15667
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Use some of the nothern local borders. Either Sid or the 3 borders going to Llok. Dont remember if all of them are international, opening hours and if they are only for EU citizens
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Old August 20th, 2017, 12:16 AM   #15668
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Use some of the nothern local borders. Either Sid or the 3 borders going to Llok. Dont remember if all of them are international, opening hours and if they are only for EU citizens


Just to mention, if you take the detour via the nothern borders, do yourself a favour and pay a visit to the historical town of Vukovar.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 12:33 AM   #15669
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Double check control is there also, you get single control only on Croatia-Slovenia border. That route is always overcrowded due to many "gastarbeiters"
Yes, but through Bosnia you would have four controls instead of two. Which would still probably be faster.

In Poland, when there are too long queues at the toll gates on the A1 motorway, they just open the gates and make the ride temporarily free to unjam the motorway. Unfortunately doing something like that at a border checkpoint (so long as the countries are not in Schengen) doesn't seem to be possible - but they could employ more people and make the controls as fast as possible. Or do something else to improve the efficiency. I can imagine that they could take the more suspicious cars on the side and make them wait for a detailed check in the queue together, and regarding the others (where checking and stamping the passport is enough), do only as basic control as possible. So that a detailed check, for those who need scanning the luggage, searching the car if they don't smuggle anything etc., would be made only at one of the stands, and at others only the basic one.

Last edited by Kpc21; August 20th, 2017 at 12:41 AM.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 01:11 AM   #15670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
But Catalonia is not even a separate country so why should Catalonia keep those international borders? I don't understand this and also what I find weird is the fact that, at least what I can see, Spain is not meddling in this incident but anyway Catalonia is part of Spain...
Catalonia (the territory) has of course international borders with France and Andorra, but these borders are NOT managed by the Catalan government. Spain (the central State) is exclusively competent to manage all its international borders.

Besides, in Catalonia there's an autonomous police (Mossos d'Esquadra) which is mostly competent in issues of internal security (like the different state police bodies in the USA), whereas the Spanish police (Policía Nacional and Guardia Civil) is competent in other fields (terrorism, drug trafficking and, of course, border controls).

I hope now it's clear.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 06:17 PM   #15671
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Yes, but through Bosnia you would have four controls instead of two. Which would still probably be faster.

In Poland, when there are too long queues at the toll gates on the A1 motorway, they just open the gates and make the ride temporarily free to unjam the motorway. Unfortunately doing something like that at a border checkpoint (so long as the countries are not in Schengen) doesn't seem to be possible - but they could employ more people and make the controls as fast as possible. Or do something else to improve the efficiency. I can imagine that they could take the more suspicious cars on the side and make them wait for a detailed check in the queue together, and regarding the others (where checking and stamping the passport is enough), do only as basic control as possible. So that a detailed check, for those who need scanning the luggage, searching the car if they don't smuggle anything etc., would be made only at one of the stands, and at others only the basic one.
I think it is generally not possible to improve the efficiency. Because after many attacks the controls get more serious and this is more broader issue.
Generally smugglers operate at night and they have contacts in the customs so they can pass or they do it quickly. It is very organizied.
But I find it more weird why after many attacks borders dont get more special treatment. Only after France attacks there were things like that.
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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
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Old August 20th, 2017, 06:55 PM   #15672
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How could such a special treatment help?

The terrorist attackers in European cities are often just normal people, sometimes living in the city where they attacked for years...

And even if an actual terrorist travels to the country through the border crossing, in order to do the attack in one of the cities - how do you detect him? Do they have magic scanners at the border crossings which can tell: this person is a terrorist, this one isn't?

Unless the person is in a kind of database, but this would be detected immediately at the passport check.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 08:58 PM   #15673
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Always the summer rush hour at the Algerian-Tunisian border checkpoint of Oum Tboul, Algeria


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Old August 21st, 2017, 02:15 PM   #15674
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Kosovo and Albania (Qafë Morinë - Gjakovë)

Border Crossing Qafa Morina - Gjakova by cinxxx, on Flickr

Border Crossing Qafa Morina - Gjakova by cinxxx, on Flickr

and back...

Border Crossing Qafa Morina - Gjkova by cinxxx, on Flickr
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Old August 21st, 2017, 03:25 PM   #15675
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Where are border controls?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 03:50 PM   #15676
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In the first picture you can see the Kosovar outpost (right behind of the 3rd picture).
Btw, controls were done only by the entering side, cars were waved through the leaving booths (and only the entering side was actively controlling).
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Old August 21st, 2017, 04:44 PM   #15677
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Do you know if one can legally cross between Montenegro and Kosovo ?
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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
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Old August 21st, 2017, 05:50 PM   #15678
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Do you know if one can legally cross between Montenegro and Kosovo ?
Why not? It looks like there are 2 border crossings between RKS and MNE.
Interestingly, one of the two roads is numbered M-9 on both sides of the border. Probably they kept Yugoslavian numbers.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 07:57 PM   #15679
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Why not? It looks like there are 2 border crossings between RKS and MNE.
Interestingly, one of the two roads is numbered M-9 on both sides of the border. Probably they kept Yugoslavian numbers.
The first sentence what you say is not true at all. Because there are no control booths and there is a road blockage and you can check that on GE.
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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
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Old August 21st, 2017, 09:52 PM   #15680
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The first sentence what you say is not true at all. Because there are no control booths and there is a road blockage and you can check that on GE.
Sorry, but since those countries maintain diplomatic relations between each other, I though the border was open.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo...egro_relations
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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