daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 21st, 2017, 09:56 PM   #15681
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,234
Likes (Received): 18298

The border is not completely defined there and until that happens they won't open that border crossing.
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 22nd, 2017, 12:16 AM   #15682
Eulanthe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,228
Likes (Received): 409

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
I think it is generally not possible to improve the efficiency.
It is possible. There are plenty of potential solutions, such as allowing pre-screened travellers the possibility of crossing the border without presenting documents. The US NEXUS system does just that - https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-t...programs/nexus

The problem is also the design of border crossings. A much more logical solution for borders that are likely to remain outer EU borders for a long time is to have a first line passport check, then have a system of green or red lights to direct cars into a secondary inspection area. The police checking identities can make the initial appraisal if a car should be inspected with the touch of a button, and with some sensible design, it would be possible to considerably speed up the process for those that are deemed to be of no risk.
Eulanthe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2017, 12:48 AM   #15683
Alex_ZR
Registered User
 
Alex_ZR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zrenjanin
Posts: 2,902
Likes (Received): 3990

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post

Do you know if one can legally cross between Montenegro and Kosovo ?
Yes, there is border crossing Kula.
Alex_ZR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2017, 08:29 AM   #15684
Palance
Autosnelwegen.net
 
Palance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Palancedrecht, NL
Posts: 1,073
Likes (Received): 277

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Why not? It looks like there are 2 border crossings between RKS and MNE.
Only Kula is open. Čakor is still closed.

Quote:
Interestingly, one of the two roads is numbered M-9 on both sides of the border. Probably they kept Yugoslavian numbers.
No. In Kosovo officially N9 is used, in Montenegro the road number is R9. In Kosovo some prefixes are changed (M->N), although the numbering is from Yugoslavia indeed.
__________________
http://www.autosnelwegen.net/
Palance no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2017, 12:22 PM   #15685
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,447
Likes (Received): 2183

During the Cold War was it possible to cross the border between USSR and Finland or Norway?

I've seen this photo of the USSR-Norway border, but it looks like closed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Norwegian-Soviet border in 1987.


[/IMG]
Interestingly, it was the only border between USSR and a NATO country.
EDIT: there was also the USSR-Turkey border.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

CSerpent liked this post

Last edited by italystf; August 22nd, 2017 at 12:43 PM.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2017, 12:42 PM   #15686
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,447
Likes (Received): 2183

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palance View Post
Only Kula is open. Čakor is still closed.
I found that in an online forum, about Čakor pass:

Quote:
Hi,

I rode by bike in Septembre 2016, from Pec to Montenegro.
There is a cement block just at the border ( after 3 km of unpaved street) I crossed this point without problem ( i think could be the same for out road motorbike)
Paved road start again in this point, no border point, but one jeep with 3 policeman after 2 km. They checked my passport and they asked me my direction.
Finally they were so kind to allowed me to continue towards Montenegro.
One of those policeman was in the wood to find people from kosovo (i can imagine)
Ciao
Quote:
Hi,

I crossed the Cakor pass from Kosovo to Montenegro in 2012, there was no border crossing. I still have a Kosovo entry stamp in my passport, and obviously no exit stamp. I want to enter Kosovo again. Any idea if I may get into any trouble? I can use an EU id card also, but I'm not sure if they don't have all the information in their computers anyway.

Cheers
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...kor-pass-58004

So, apartently, even without an official border crossing they let people through? It may be the only border crossing in Europe like that.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2017, 04:13 PM   #15687
Junkie
Supervisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Skopje
Posts: 1,889
Likes (Received): 785

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
So, apartently, even without an official border crossing they let people through? It may be the only border crossing in Europe like that.
Yes because Kosovo is now a separate country and Montenegro recognizes Kosovo as an independent state, border demarcation started years ago and it was finished only last year. So there is no legal pass there, but there are two old roads connecting both countries and that's why I was asking if it is legal to cross there.
Seems the things are premature there and it need long time to settle in a right way.
__________________
Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
Junkie está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 11:41 AM   #15688
stickedy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kronach
Posts: 762
Likes (Received): 121

You can cross the border at the road over Rozaje - https://goo.gl/maps/ZAY1sQkEYy72 - without problems.

The road through Rugova canyon is closed, there is no legal possibility of crossing there. However, the border is not guarded, so people are crossing there illegally.
stickedy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 11:51 AM   #15689
TheMayor
TheMayor
 
TheMayor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Kuşadası
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
You can cross the border at the road over Rozaje - https://goo.gl/maps/ZAY1sQkEYy72 - without problems.

The road through Rugova canyon is closed, there is no legal possibility of crossing there. However, the border is not guarded, so people are crossing there illegally.
I've crossed the border on the Rozaje - Pejë road last year. There are quite a few km downhill between the Montenegro and Kosovo border posts. Don't know the reason for that?
__________________
World traveller
TheMayor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 02:00 PM   #15690
stickedy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kronach
Posts: 762
Likes (Received): 121

That's a good question. The Montenegrin control point is very far away from the actual border. Maybe it was about the space or maybe about safety reasons. The checkpoint would have been very exposed when it would be closer to the border and it was build sometime around 1999, so safety concerns could be a point back then. But I don't know, it's a bit weired
stickedy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 06:46 PM   #15691
Junkie
Supervisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Skopje
Posts: 1,889
Likes (Received): 785

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
That's a good question. The Montenegrin control point is very far away from the actual border. Maybe it was about the space or maybe about safety reasons. The checkpoint would have been very exposed when it would be closer to the border and it was build sometime around 1999, so safety concerns could be a point back then. But I don't know, it's a bit weired
Most probably it is because there was not known demarcation line back before almost 20 years.... But most probably somehow, someone knew that Kosovo and Montenegro will get their independences.
__________________
Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
Junkie está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 07:59 PM   #15692
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 633
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
During the Cold War was it possible to cross the border between USSR and Finland or Norway?
Finland, yes. There were organized tourist trips from both sides, and commercial transports as well.

For quite some time the Soviet Union was Finland's most important trade partner, after all.
__________________
Countries visited, driven in, (not independent), former:
A B CH CZ D DK E EST F FIN GB (+GBZ) GR H I L LT LV MAL MC N NL PL RUS S SGP SK SLO T TR YU
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 08:01 PM   #15693
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 633
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post

Do you know if one can legally cross between Montenegro and Kosovo ?
Depends on who you ask. It may be an illegal entry to Serbia.
__________________
Countries visited, driven in, (not independent), former:
A B CH CZ D DK E EST F FIN GB (+GBZ) GR H I L LT LV MAL MC N NL PL RUS S SGP SK SLO T TR YU
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 09:03 PM   #15694
Junkie
Supervisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Skopje
Posts: 1,889
Likes (Received): 785

Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Depends on who you ask. It may be an illegal entry to Serbia.
Kosovo is recognized by Albania, Montenegro and Macedonia from the bordering countries. On these countries the traffic is considered as international crossings and international rules (should) apply.
However it is weird why on the border between MNE and Kosovo there is no valid double checkpoint but only Montenegro is checking documents, while the other crossing is not operational.
__________________
Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
Junkie está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 09:38 PM   #15695
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,447
Likes (Received): 2183

Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Finland, yes. There were organized tourist trips from both sides, and commercial transports as well.

For quite some time the Soviet Union was Finland's most important trade partner, after all.
That means that Soviet citizens were allowed to travel to Finland? They could have easily defected that way.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 10:13 PM   #15696
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,329
Likes (Received): 6751

I don't know how it was in the Soviet Union. But in Poland, those who really had reasons to defect (because e.g. they did something anti-communist in the past), rather weren't allowed to go, they wouldn't get a passport. For normal people, not involved in politics in any way (so having no reasons to flee - it was much better to live in Poland rather than to be an illegal immigrant somewhere abroad), it wasn't impossible to go abroad to the western countries. At least in some periods of time. Although, from what I know (I didn't live in those times), much bureaucracy was needed, including explaining the reasons of going there to the officials, and it was each time someone wanted to go to the west (the passports were issued only for the time of the trip and had to be returned immediately after the return).

Another problem was the financial issues - the Polish currency was worth almost nothing in the west (even though in Poland you could buy all the needed products and have a decent life for it; the problem was not the lack of money, which everyone had enough of, but the lack of products to buy), and the same must have been with the Soviet one.

I have once read a post of someone on one touristic forum, where he told the story when he went to Sweden for the first time in live - for an internship during his studies, which was in the communist times (which wasn't very popular, but it was possible - by the way, actually, you can do an internship in North Korea nowadays, I have recently seen such an offer from the IAESTE or AIESEC program, I am not sure which one). He took very much food with him for the first days before he gets his first wages. Even nowadays, living in Sweden is expensive for a Polish person. But then... it was extremely expensive.
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 10:40 PM   #15697
stickedy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kronach
Posts: 762
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
However it is weird why on the border between MNE and Kosovo there is no valid double checkpoint but only Montenegro is checking documents, while the other crossing is not operational.
How do you come to this conclusion? The border at Kula is a normal boder crossing point and the border in Rugova canyon is closed. There is no border crossing checkpoint in Montenegro also.

This bicycle driver just encountered a random border police patrol.
stickedy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 10:42 PM   #15698
stickedy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kronach
Posts: 762
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Most probably it is because there was not known demarcation line back before almost 20 years.... But most probably somehow, someone knew that Kosovo and Montenegro will get their independences.
That's unlikely, the borders between the constituent republics were and are well known, there are just a few small disputes where some areas where registered in the wrong land registry, but overall there are no problems with the border lines in former Yugoslavia.
stickedy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 10:54 PM   #15699
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 633
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
That means that Soviet citizens were allowed to travel to Finland? They could have easily defected that way.
Oh no, not everyone. They had to be trusted (party members, I assume). The Soviets needed a visa to exit their own country. However, they were many enough for such tours to be profitable.
__________________
Countries visited, driven in, (not independent), former:
A B CH CZ D DK E EST F FIN GB (+GBZ) GR H I L LT LV MAL MC N NL PL RUS S SGP SK SLO T TR YU
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2017, 11:06 PM   #15700
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,447
Likes (Received): 2183

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
That's unlikely, the borders between the constituent republics were and are well known, there are just a few small disputes where some areas where registered in the wrong land registry, but overall there are no problems with the border lines in former Yugoslavia.
There are also ongoing controversies about SLO-HR, HR-BIH and HR-SRB borders. Administrative borders of Yugoslavia were never properly established and no accurate maps from before 1991 exist. It wasn't much a problem back then (they were just administrative borders and the regime didn't want to stress their existence, as it promoted "pan-Yugoslavism" and opposed local nationalisms). Of course the problem became real after those countries declared their independence.

The SLO-HR border crossing at Sekovlje lies on the disputes sections of the border (Slovenia claims a narrow strip of land into Croatia). The border crossing functions normally, although on Slovenian documents is referred as "control checkpoint" (or something like that) and not "border crossing", as according to Slovenia it lies entirely inside Slovenia.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium