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Old November 11th, 2007, 02:52 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
We went to Italy and Austria several times when I was a kid and we'd always cross the border in a few seconds. My first time in "Eastern" Europe was only in 1996 (Czech Republic).
yeah, i know that, my parents went often to Italy and Austria, even to Spain (but i remember they had to get passing visas for France). but it was different thing about going to Stalin block
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Old November 11th, 2007, 03:28 AM   #142
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it was easier to travel to western than to eastern Europe for citizen of Yugoslavia
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Old November 11th, 2007, 11:53 AM   #143
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Radi, lol SMOOTH ROADS BEGGINING AFTER THE BORDER
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Old November 11th, 2007, 02:04 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
Who made such border? What's its history?
It's easy. You must remeber, that some borders are older than countries. This division is remainder of the midages. Land was shared by two onwners. One of them was subject of dutch prince and second - belgian prince. And when coutry borders were established, they covered whole princes belongings, including separated plots of the land.
This in not only Dutch-Belgian history. As You may see on the maps, in Poland border between two voivoidships (Warmińsko-Mazurskie and Mazowieckie) overlaps with the 1400' border between Kingdom of Poland and Teutonic Order, 1750' border between Kingdom of Prussia and Poland or 1900' border between German Empire and Russian Empire.
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Last edited by pmaciej7; November 11th, 2007 at 02:19 PM.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmaciej7 View Post
It's easy. You must remeber, that some borders are older than countries. This division is remainder of the midages. Land was shared by two onwners. One of them was subject of dutch prince and second - belgian prince. And when coutry borders were established, they covered whole princes belongings, including separated plots of the land.
This in not only Dutch-Belgian history. As You may see on the maps, in Poland border between two voivoidships (Warmińsko-Mazurskie and Mazowieckie) overlaps with the 1400' border between Kingdom of Poland and Teutonic Order, 1750' border between Kingdom of Prussia and Poland or 1900' border between German Empire and Russian Empire.
I thought is has something with feudalism. However such borders are ussually being changed. Land is refunded by other land to make clear border.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 04:24 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
I thought is has something with feudalism.
That's what i mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
However such borders are ussually being changed. Land is refunded by other land to make clear border.
Unless there were no borders in todays' meaning (barbed wire fences, border crossings, passport control), that was no problem at all. And why wasn't it changed later? I don't know. Maybe because of tradition?
On the other hand, I think crossing dutch-belgian border was never a big problem.
It might cause problems in our part of Europe in last 50 years, such as for farmers to cultivate fields across the polish-slovakian border in Spisz (Spiš) and Orawa (Orava).

Last edited by pmaciej7; November 11th, 2007 at 04:50 PM.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 06:48 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmaciej7 View Post
That's what i mean.
I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmaciej7 View Post
Unless there were no borders in todays' meaning (barbed wire fences, border crossings, passport control), that was no problem at all. And why wasn't it changed later? I don't know. Maybe because of tradition?
On the other hand, I think crossing dutch-belgian border was never a big problem.
It might cause problems in our part of Europe in last 50 years, such as for farmers to cultivate fields across the polish-slovakian border in Spisz (Spiš) and Orawa (Orava).
I know in mid-ages noone cared about borders like in 20th century. That's the reason why such messy borders were ussually "cleaned" in last century. However, it's probably true there weren't big problems with crossing borders in Benelux.
I don't know about problems with cultivating fields in Orava or Spiš. There are some fields? Especially Orava has very sterile soil for agriculture. There are mainly hoods, meadows and sheeps. I've heard about exchange of 2696 square metres between Slovakia and Poland, but it was due to moving of border river Dunajec.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 07:23 PM   #148
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Spis and Orava were polish feuds, annexed by Stephen Báthory, when he became polish king. I know some fields, meadows and woods, even before WWII ,were owned by polish farmers. What happened later? Most were nationalized, but some farmers wanted to farm them, bo górol jest psywiązany do łojcowizny, hej! ('cause mountain man is attached to his inheritance).

Ok, we are going a little bit offtopic
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Old November 11th, 2007, 08:24 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmaciej7 View Post
Spis and Orava were polish feuds, annexed by Stephen Báthory, when he became polish king. I know some fields, meadows and woods, even before WWII ,were owned by polish farmers. What happened later? Most were nationalized, but some farmers wanted to farm them, bo górol jest psywiązany do łojcowizny, hej! ('cause mountain man is attached to his inheritance).

Ok, we are going a little bit offtopic
I didin't know that. But, you're right we are offtopic.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 09:27 PM   #150
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Hmmm... Last summer I saw a program on Serbian television where they showed the road from Belgrade to Sumcen Breg near Nessebar in Bulgaria, showing major road signs, problems, rest areas, etc.

On the road from the border till Sofia they showed the "bumpy road" signs a lot of times, also the pavement was really bad.

Did they fix it in the meantime?
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Old November 11th, 2007, 09:53 PM   #151
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(Radi's picture)
Hmmm... Last summer I saw a program on Serbian television where they showed the road from Belgrade to Sumcen Breg near Nessebar in Bulgaria, showing major road signs, problems, rest areas, etc.

On the road from the border till Sofia they showed the "bumpy road" signs a lot of times, also the pavement was really bad.

Did they fix it in the meantime?
ofcourse they did. Now you don´t think you drive on that road, it´s liek driving on train and even smoother. The nationa road Simitli Bansko is finished which leads to one of the big skiresorts in Bulgaria and also go to a greek border, it wil be finished to the greek border in March, I´m nto talking about the Kulata border, because it will be connected with the STRUMA motorway.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 10:08 PM   #152
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And this thread was going soooooo well...
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Old November 11th, 2007, 10:19 PM   #153
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who has been to lorrach germany? there you have the tri border gremany,france and switzerland very interesting to visit indeed
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Old November 11th, 2007, 10:33 PM   #154
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You reminded me, i've been to Basel this spring. And i crossed the border from Switzerland to France and from Switzerland to Germany.

This is Basel/Weil am Rhein border crossing on A2(swiss)/A5(german), Direction Germany.
You see german roadsigns, because crossing is located on german side, in district Freidlingen, ~1000m away from real border. Migrol is swiss petrol station.



Last edited by pmaciej7; November 12th, 2007 at 12:59 AM.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 10:43 PM   #155
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Quote:
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And this thread was going soooooo well...
It still is, noone has to quote my statement about the Bulgarian roads.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 10:51 PM   #156
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It still is, noone has to quote my statement about the Bulgarian roads.
Yeah, but there really was no place for it. Restraint is a good thing.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 10:52 PM   #157
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Quote:
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who has been to lorrach germany? there you have the tri border gremany,france and switzerland very interesting to visit indeed
Isn't that a river border?
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Old November 11th, 2007, 11:00 PM   #158
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River Rhein is a border between Germany and Switzerland, then swiss cities Bettingen and Riehen and northern districts of Basel (Kleinhuningen) lie on right bank of the river and then Rhein becomes a border between Germany and France.

Lorrach is a german city.
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Last edited by pmaciej7; November 11th, 2007 at 11:06 PM.
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Old November 12th, 2007, 12:43 AM   #159
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Somo photo's of the Portuguese-Spanish border crossing near Tui (that's about 20 km's south of Vigo... some 120 km's north of Porto), linking portuguese A-3 with spanish A-55.

There were works on the spanish side (you can see the pavement was really bad!).
About to enter in Spain:


International bridge:





Now coming from teh other direction:
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Old November 12th, 2007, 12:45 AM   #160
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French-Spanish border (A-9 - AP-7), near La Jonquera.
Crossing in the direction of Spain.

Approching the border:


Border station (you have to pass by there at 10 km/h):
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