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Old October 22nd, 2017, 12:39 AM   #16141
Eulanthe
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About airports and customs controls - I was in Malaga Airport yesterday and two weeks ago, and I wonder how they're going to handle things post-Brexit. As it is right now, the infrastructure for customs checks isn't big enough to handle the amount of British tourists that come yearly, and the passport control areas are way too small to handle the detailed checks that several flights of non-EU passengers will need.

It seems to me that it's the same in many European airports that only really have flights to EU non-Schengen countries, and in all of them, the infrastructure will need to be upgraded to handle everything.

The same applies in reverse, of course - places like the Western Docks in Dover will need to be upgraded to provide areas for customs checks.

Another update on Gibraltar: they just don't care on both sides, but Spain is again playing stupid tricks with exit lanes. This time, they were forcing all cars through a single exit and entry lane, though not actually stopping anyone. The infrastructure that was built to provide a place for secondary checks is barricaded off, too.

One interesting thing that I observed about Gibraltar is that customs officers are almost non-existent at the border. They were nowhere to be seen when entering or exiting, by foot and by car. I asked how I was supposed to make a declaration, and the immigration police guy said "If there's no-one there, then consider it a green light to go".
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 12:54 AM   #16142
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Same situation in Andorra.

I glanced a road transit count and La Seu-Border with Andorra could be the 1x1 national road with more traffic!!!!!!.


Getting out from Andorra on sunday evening and... only one lane for booths available!!!!.
At least they didn't stopped cars, just glanced and randomly checks... and weren't strongly in customs.... but congestion was important
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 02:22 AM   #16143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
One interesting thing that I observed about Gibraltar is that customs officers are almost non-existent at the border. They were nowhere to be seen when entering or exiting, by foot and by car. I asked how I was supposed to make a declaration, and the immigration police guy said "If there's no-one there, then consider it a green light to go".
Why do you expect customs officers at an internal EU border?
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 05:26 AM   #16144
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Why do you expect customs officers at an internal EU border?
Gibraltar is in the European Union, but it's outside the fiscal territory of the European Union - so there are full Customs controls between Gibraltar and the rest of the EU. There's no VAT there, and I think there's no excise taxes on things like fuel, cigarettes and alcohol.

There's a good list here that explains it - https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custom...territories_en

What they do have is quite high import taxes - I think it's around 12% flat rate.

Interestingly enough, they have their own immigration system too. You need a passport or ID card to fly between Gibraltar and the UK, for instance.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 07:44 PM   #16145
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Why do you expect customs officers at an internal EU border?


It is a non-visible custom but in any flight between Canary islands or Melilla and Spain mainland will have to declare any good. There are no special cases of smuggling. Not many goods deserve to take into a baggage and pay a 3h plane ticket but... when you cross in the side of "nothing to declare/something to declare" you must do it.

And.. it is a domestic flight. Obviously they will never ask for passport, but they can ask for goods.
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Old October 23rd, 2017, 11:04 PM   #16146
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Next pic normally belongs to another thread. Or not? Welcome to Flanders!

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Old October 24th, 2017, 04:53 AM   #16147
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Seriously? And why not 90 km/h in the countryside like on the Belgian sign?

Last edited by Verso; October 24th, 2017 at 04:58 AM.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 03:22 PM   #16148
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Flanders unilaterally reduced the speed limit in rural areas to 70 km/h. Road administration is devolved in Belgium, there are in practice no national roads (though there is a national road numbering system).
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Old October 24th, 2017, 04:11 PM   #16149
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Even more confusing, the demands for driving licenses are different between Flanders and Wallonia. Both require lessons given by peers (with a minimum amount of having a driving license), but Flanders also made it obligated that the teachers get 3 hours worth of classes. There are probably more differences, but I'm too lazy to check.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 05:51 PM   #16150
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Here's Wallonia's counterpart. At least regular roads have a general 90 km/h speed limit, much better than that ridiculously slow 70 km/h in Flanders.
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A Wallonia speed limit sign. These became necessary after Flanders reduced the general non-urban speed limit from 90 to 70 km/h.

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Old October 24th, 2017, 05:55 PM   #16151
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that ridiculously slow 70 km/h in Flanders.
Though in some instances 70 km/h is too slow in Flanders, I'd like to add some context to that statement.

In much of Flanders, nearly the entire countryside is developed with ribbon development along major roads, including most N-roads. This means that you can drive tens of kilometers outside of city limits while still having continuous development on the side of the road.

It would be a step too far to incorporate the entire road network within city limits, so 70 km/h is a compromise. Before they lowered the general speed limit, 70 km/h was already very widespread on N-roads in Belgium.

Though there are some indications that they're overdoing it by reducing the speed limits on roads with fewer development or divided roadways to 70 km/h as well.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 12:22 PM   #16152
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A moose on the run from euroasiatic union to European union (Belarus to Lithuania)

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Old October 25th, 2017, 01:36 PM   #16153
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Even more confusing, the demands for driving licenses are different between Flanders and Wallonia.
Why is that confusing? If you live in Flanders, you have to follow the Flemish laws/regulations, in Wallonia the Walloon ones.

Same for schools. There is no Belgian school/educational system. Flanders and Wallonia have their own system.

It's a thing called federalism.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 02:49 PM   #16154
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France-Andorra

They built a new border crossing station on French N22, a few kilometers before the border with Andorra.

I've never driven through El Pas de la Casa, but I took the Envalira Tunnel in 2008 and there was no border check of any kind. It seems to have been built around 2010.

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Old October 25th, 2017, 03:06 PM   #16155
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A moose on the run from euroasiatic union to European union (Belarus to Lithuania)

These fences obviously make very big damage to ecosystem and animal movement.
What can human create it is only disaster :-(
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Old October 25th, 2017, 04:17 PM   #16156
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Quote:
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They built a new border crossing station on French N22, a few kilometers before the border with Andorra.

I've never driven through El Pas de la Casa, but I took the Envalira Tunnel in 2008 and there was no border check of any kind. It seems to have been built around 2010.

There was a sort of control there and in google street view I have seen pictures when they were u/c.

Anyway, a French forumer said that it was usual not to be stopped there but randomly later (this is, you crossed "nothing to declare").

Have seen Discovery documentaries and in Spain they make from time to time. You can go through custom facilities and non stopped but a random check later. I listened an officer and he came from Algeciras border. He said that smuggling there was absolutely different but he just needed a couple of months to know which cars had "more points" to be stopped and which ones just drive trhough.


About Pas de la Casa, as you said, after tunnel you entry into France for a while (except if a tiny road for service is taken). Booths and fence remained there for sometime too until the road was refurbished.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 06:03 PM   #16157
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Why is that confusing? If you live in Flanders, you have to follow the Flemish laws/regulations, in Wallonia the Walloon ones.

Same for schools. There is no Belgian school/educational system. Flanders and Wallonia have their own system.

It's a thing called federalism.
Spain and the United States are federal countries too; i'm not sure that getting your licence in Galicia is much different from getting it in Catalonia; nor that education in Oregon is different from education in Wisconsin.

It's just that Belgium is a mess.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 09:20 PM   #16158
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What if you spend, let's say, 50% of your life in Flanders and 50% in Wallonia, and you have apartments in both regions?

Do you have in Belgium something like an official registration of the place where you live (Polish: meldunek, German: Anmeldung - there is no unambiguous English term for that), which is unique for the whole country?

In Poland, this thing is quite crazy, because there is many people who are "angemeldet" in a different place than they actually live. So... there are often two addresses used, even, for official reasons. The address of residence and the address of registration. Usually, for the official reasons, the address of registration is used, they send the mail from courts to it, for example - but, on the other hand, the tax offices use the address of residence. You put the address of residence on the tax return forms, and the tax office you are assigned to depends on your actual place of residence and not of registration.

Theoretically you are obliged to be registered ("angemeldet") in the place where you live, but... there is no punishment if you don't do it. Until a short time ago, there was, but since the end of communism, it was almost not at all used in practice. And they wanted to totally remove this demand to register yourself where you live, but now they postponed it to nobody knows when, as there were some problems concerning other laws demanding existence something like official registration.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 10:50 PM   #16159
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Spain and the United States are federal countries too; i'm not sure that getting your licence in Galicia is much different from getting it in Catalonia; nor that education in Oregon is different from education in Wisconsin.

It's just that Belgium is a mess.
In Spain they are absolutely the same licences and managed by same administration: DGT (Traffic general bureau).

There is a sort of points system since july 2006. The system is the same for the whole country. It could be a mess but... for local streets, local police gets control, in Catalonian, Navarran or Basque country regions, their police, in the rest of regions (it includes Canary islands, Ceuta and Melilla), Civil guard, but in anycase, any police will notify traffic centre about points


And traffic law and restriction is the same in all the country.
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Old October 26th, 2017, 12:10 AM   #16160
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A moose on the run from euroasiatic union to European union (Belarus to Lithuania)

He's probably trying to flee Lukashenko regime and get political asylum in the free world.
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