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Old October 29th, 2017, 09:25 AM   #16201
Eulanthe
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Speaking of former controls, I think here was the former French control too. There are some pictures online that show France controlling people in a similar looking building.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 01:19 PM   #16202
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Don't know.

Have seen E-AND former pictures and compared one out of them with a recent picture spotted by myself. A long time ago it was a fence in a non-paved road an police in both sides. That was all.

But never seen old F-AND pictures
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Old October 29th, 2017, 02:32 PM   #16203
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Regarding the recent situation with Catalonia becoming independent country on its own, seem that Spain will have no border with Andorra anymore.....
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Old October 29th, 2017, 02:39 PM   #16204
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Difficult to say regarding that the status of Catalonia will be similar to the one of Kosovo, or even worse, as the EU countries rather do not want to recognize it...

Although it depends on the course of events, and there is quite a few possible scenarios just now.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 04:55 PM   #16205
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There are border checks in Kosovo or Crimea as well regardles of their formal status.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #16206
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There are border checks in Kosovo or Crimea as well regardles of their formal status.


FYROM ( Former Yugoslav) border with Republic of Albania.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 06:42 PM   #16207
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Regarding the recent situation with Catalonia becoming independent country on its own, seem that Spain will have no border with Andorra anymore.....
Just go and find if you can have a Catalan police stamp on your passport, never mind where you enter......
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Old October 29th, 2017, 07:13 PM   #16208
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Regarding the recent situation with Catalonia becoming independent country on its own, seem that Spain will have no border with Andorra anymore.....
As a matter of fact, Catalonia does not seem to be independent. Not any nation will recognize it (apart from some separatist nations like Northern Cyprus), and (unline Kosovo, Nothern Cyprus or Transdnistria) Catalonia will never, or at least not in the following weeks work as an independent nation.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 07:30 PM   #16209
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It is not possible to proclaim independence without formally declare the autonomous borders as a country borders.... So I said 'if' Catalonia wanna be independent they must install border with Spain and on the airports and sea ports....

Otherwise they will be like Transnistria in Moldova a separatist region without physical borders just separatist 'checks' (?) prior to entering and also their own doing politics.

And the Russian separatist region of Abkhazia in Georgia is the same.

But on the side of the politics, Catalonia really has no supporting sides, unlike many Russian enclaves which have Russia to 'protect' them.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 08:44 PM   #16210
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Anyway... we should chat in regional border threads indeed (new parliament elections are called for December 21st)

Catalan police remains keeping safety. It was matter of chance... but R.Madrid had to go this afternoon to play against last Catalan president homecity and they said safety was assured. Enough to glance any sport newspaper... they talk only about sport (and btw, R.Madrid has lost).

Spanish police remains surveilling customs. Not many of them at all. This is Andorran one (and they are more worried in blackmoney than in passports), and international flights (and ferries but there aren't too much... most of work on harbours are for freight because main passenger traffic is to Balearic islands) and so on...

Therefore... I just ask to talk about in regional borders thread. I could point a picture of an Aragonese village where last four houses are inside Catalonia, for instance, or the matter that bound between regions sometimes is a nightmare, but really, there is nothing else to say in these terms...
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Old October 29th, 2017, 09:09 PM   #16211
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I understand what you want to say.

That the state borders are kept by the capital and not by the autonomous province. I am talking about international crossings here not regional..... Now the thing is what will happen if Catalonia provide border with Spain. That way your capital will have to withdraw your officers from airports from example and they will install their own staff...

As far as I know this is the same between Moldova and Ukraine. Although Russia has enclave there, and that enclave is bordering Ukraine, but still the officials are from Moldova.... If not someone correct me.
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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
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Old October 29th, 2017, 09:46 PM   #16212
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
As far as I know this is the same between Moldova and Ukraine. Although Russia has enclave there, and that enclave is bordering Ukraine, but still the officials are from Moldova.... If not someone correct me.
I highly doubt that, afaik Transnistria is controlling it's borders.

It's not Russia
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Old October 29th, 2017, 09:51 PM   #16213
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Catalonia will never, or at least not in the following weeks work as an independent nation.
In the following weeks - you are right, but I would be really careful with saying never. It really depends on the course of events. And on the people of Catalonia. In my opinion, their fight for independence is quite stupid, but after what Spain recently did to them, it's not unlikely... If they will be determined, they will become independent and recognized by majority of countries and Spain won't be able to stop that.

Just now, there is no real independence of Catalonia, as Spain is still controlling its area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
That the state borders are kept by the capital and not by the autonomous province. I am talking about international crossings here not regional..... Now the thing is what will happen if Catalonia provide border with Spain. That way your capital will have to withdraw your officers from airports from example and they will install their own staff...
I believe Spain will be really determined to keep their offices in Catalonia on the airports and external borders of the (currently recognized) Spain. It would be necessary to use force to remove them.

And all this is because of Spain doing things they should never do in a civilized country with this referendum imitation... They would do nothing but convince people it's better for them to stay in Spain, they would support the pseudo-referendum (still claiming and loudly saying it's not a real referendum, just an opinion poll) and ensure that there is no manipulation in the counting of votes, the result of voting would be most likely for staying in Spain and it would stop the discussion about the Catalan independence. If it was for leaving Spain - it would still be close to 50% and the determination of Catalonia to declare independence would be definitely much weaker than it is now. Even if it was close to 100% for the independence, the situation wouldn't be different from the current one, apart from that there would be less hate on Spain in Catalonia.

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Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
I highly doubt that, afaik Transnistria is controlling it's borders.

It's not Russia
From what I know, apart from Sheriff Tiraspol playing in the Moldovan league, Moldova and Transnistria are in practice separate entities and have nothing in common politically.

Plus, of course, Transnistria isn't internationally recognized as a country and Moldova claims its territory.

Transnistria is weird in general - its whole economy is based on one company, the already mentioned Sheriff.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 10:21 PM   #16214
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I highly doubt that, afaik Transnistria is controlling it's borders.

It's not Russia
No, from what I have read.

Autonomous provinces/entities does not control international borders in the country they belong.

For example in Bosnia&Hercegovina the entity of RS is not controling the borders although this entity has its own police forces. Those who control are officials from the ministry of the interior of BiH and they have according emblem.
But in some places you can spot the flag of RS waving along with the state flag.
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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

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MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
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Old October 30th, 2017, 12:37 AM   #16215
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In the following weeks - you are right, but I would be really careful with saying never. It really depends on the course of events. And on the people of Catalonia. In my opinion, their fight for independence is quite stupid, but after what Spain recently did to them, it's not unlikely... If they will be determined, they will become independent and recognized by majority of countries and Spain won't be able to stop that.
I doubt that other countries (well, except maybe Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia,...) will recognize the unilateral declaration of independence of Catalonia. Spain is a powerful country, part of EU and NATO and with most of the international community on its side. The international laws explicitly says that the 'self-determination rights' only apply to populations that are oppressed by colonial rules, military occupations or totalitarian regimes. It's clearly not the case of Catalan people, as they are part of a democratic country, are represented in its parliament, and enjoy a wide regional autonomy.
Catalonia could have received international recognition only if Spain was a dictatorship that killed Catalans like Serbs killed Albanians in the 1990s.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old October 30th, 2017, 12:39 AM   #16216
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From what I know, apart from Sheriff Tiraspol playing in the Moldovan league, Moldova and Transnistria are in practice separate entities and have nothing in common politically.
San Marino plays in the Italian league, Monaco does in the French one. Triestina used to play in the Italian league also during the Free Territory of Trieste.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 01:06 AM   #16217
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I highly doubt that, afaik Transnistria is controlling it's borders.

It's not Russia
It's not quite so simple. Transnistria internally might be left to people living there, but the territory is very much under the control of Russia. For instance, Transnistria has huge gas debts to Russia, and Russia contributes a lot of cash both directly and indirectly to the territory.

Apparently Moldova and Ukraine jointly control Ukraine's border with Transnistria, so that Moldova can completely control who comes in and out of the territory.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 01:43 AM   #16218
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I live in Barcelona, don't support catalan separatists and I'm having a hard time restraining myself from going into political debate here. It's kind of annoying when others go off topic with border debates / political debates, and I don't want to be part of that.

But let me point out the current situation on everyday life: catalan goverment declaration of independence had no consecuence whatsover, it just got the local goverment removed for breaking the law. That's all. Not even local catalan police recognized the independece and they now completely follow Madrid's commands. All borders, airports, ports etc were always controled by national spanish police (Guardia Civil + Policia Nacional) and not even a single second there was a change on anything. Everything remains exactly as it was one week ago.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 03:38 AM   #16219
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How does Walloon work with the German minority in the East? Is signage in German and how does that work with the French mentality in the rest of Walloon?
Sorry for bringing this topic back (in a complicated way ). I just wanted to make some things clear when it comes to Belgium.

Historically, the country is split in three different levels. There is the federal government, 3 Communities (for cultural purposes like education and health care) (Flemish, French and German) and 3 'Regions' (for economic reasons like economic policy, roads, infrastructure, ... ) (Flemish, Walloon and Brussels).

This makes that on a federal level we have:
- The Federal Parliament (150 members)
- The Senate (74 members)
- The Federal Government

On a community and regional level (Flanders):
- The Flemish Parliament (124 members)
- The Flemish government

To save costs and increase efficiency, Flanders has combined the two into one parliament and government.

On a community level (French-speaking part):
- Parliament of the French-speaking Community (94 members, including 19 French-speaking members of the Brussels parliament)
- Government of the French-speaking Community

On a community level (Brussels):
- The Common Community Commission (For all people in Brussels that are not part entirely of one community)
- The Flemish Community Commission
- The French Community Commission

Note 1: All these are a kind of parliament

Note 2: the two communities mentioned above (Flemish government and parliament and French-speaking parliament and government have direct power to community-related issues in Brussels for Flemish or French citizens respectively)

On a community level (German):
- The German parliament (25 members)
- The German government

On a regional level (Wallonia)
- The Walloon parliament (75 members)
- The Walloon government

Note: the German speaking community is part of Wallonia when it comes to economic issues.

On a regional level (Brussels)
- The Brussels Parliament (89 members)
- The Brussels government

The best thing? Each of the previous parliaments can issue laws which are of the same importance as a federal law or an other regional/community law. Of course, their respective competences are regulated in detail.

It is that complicated that I initially forgot the Brussels government and parliament . We have 537 members of parliament in total (excluding the Brussels commissions).

When it comes to roads: since it's an economic issue, roads in Flanders will be taken care of by the Flemish government, in Wallonia (and the German speaking part) by the Walloon government and in Brussels by the Brussels government.

If you drive from Brussels to Liège for example there is some piece of motorway where you cross into Wallonia and Flanders alternatively, with the Flemish piece of motorway nicely modernised, followed by a few km's of old Walloon motorway and again a nice Flemish motorway, ... and so on.

Communities



Regions

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Last edited by JanVL; October 30th, 2017 at 03:48 AM.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 03:58 AM   #16220
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San Marino plays in the Italian league, Monaco does in the French one. Triestina used to play in the Italian league also during the Free Territory of Trieste.
Yes, but those are recognized countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAkumana View Post
I live in Barcelona, don't support catalan separatists and I'm having a hard time restraining myself from going into political debate here. It's kind of annoying when others go off topic with border debates / political debates, and I don't want to be part of that.

But let me point out the current situation on everyday life: catalan goverment declaration of independence had no consecuence whatsover, it just got the local goverment removed for breaking the law. That's all. Not even local catalan police recognized the independece and they now completely follow Madrid's commands. All borders, airports, ports etc were always controled by national spanish police (Guardia Civil + Policia Nacional) and not even a single second there was a change on anything. Everything remains exactly as it was one week ago.
Well, it makes sense as this "independence" was not really a sensible thing.
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