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Old November 2nd, 2017, 04:27 PM   #16241
MattiG
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Finland

In the Historical photos of motorways and roads in your country thread, Eulanhte asks:

Matti, can you tell us more about crossing the Finnish border prior to 2001? I was under the impression that the Nordic Passport Union had abolished passport checks entirely on internal borders, but retained customs controls - meaning that while FIN-N still required you to pass at an approved point, FIN-S had become completely open once the two countries joined the EU in 1995.

First some historical background: The FIN-N border was drawn after the Treaty of Strömstad (1751) as the border of Denmark and Sweden. In unpopulated areas, it basically follows the water divide, and rivers Rajajoki, Kietsimäjoki, Inarijoki and Tenojoki (names in Finnish). The FIN-S border was established after the Treaty of Hamina (Fredrikshamn in Swedish) of 1809 when Russia annexed Finland. The border follows rivers with minor exceptions. The Swedish law of 1734 remained in effect in Finland. Putting the FIN-S border is place was not the highest priority task: The final agreement about land ownership arrangements etc was signed no earlier than in 1823. The current status of the sovereignty islands is based on the agreement of 1823.

Because of the common history, the borders have always been quite open, and easy to cross. Since the question of Norway's independence was solved in 1905, no major disputes across the Nordic countries have arisen. However, the current FIN-N border was closed in 1852 and FIN-S one in 1899 mainly in order to protect the reindeer husbandry.

The passport union did not remove the passport checks at the borders. It allowed the citizens of Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland to cross the border without a passport. Some kind of a proof of citizenship was required. Usually just opening the mouth was enough: the native speakers are quite easily to be recognized.

(The same applied in airports. There were no Nordic sectors but intra-Nordic travellers had to pass the passport control booths. The keywords "arriving from Sweden" in Finnish were usually enough. I was never asked for flight tickets to prove that.)

During the passport union, the border checks were random, and the main focus was in the customs operations. Before the EEA was established, importing butter to Finland was restricted to 2.5 kg per person in order to protect the local agriculture. That is why people made long trips to Sweden just for buying butter. That was kind of a national sports, like moonshining in Norway. Zillions of cars were inspected to find out if people are smuggling butter and other restricted goods.

The arrangements were quite practical: The local people had quite a freedom to cross the border anywhere (like those few people living in Keinovuopio Sweden, which is an enclave roadwise: the only access is from Finland). Some common routes, such as certain ice roads on the FIN-S border, were made public. In addition, people could cross the border anywhere after applying for a crossing permit. Writing those permits turned to be the most burdening job in certain border stations. By default, the permit was granted to everyone applying for it.

The NW corner of Finland is a very popular hiking and fishing wilderness area. Many paths lead to the highest peak in Finland at the FIN-N border (red circle). Paths (red) take shortcuts over Norway, and the frontier guards got tired in writing the permits. That is why certain sections of the border were opened for free crossing for pedestrians.



In those years, I was stopped at the borders at most five times. So, the checks really were not frequent. One case remains in my mind: I was arriving in Helsingborg from Denmark. In those days, there was the Swedish Customs School in Helsingborg, and the students had been sent out for training. I left the ferry with a green "nothing to declare" tag in the windscreen and drove the lane marked "nothing to declare". A young guy in a uniform raised his hands, and the discussion was short:

- Hej, har du nĺgot att deklarera, have you something to declare?
- Nääj
- Tack, welcome to Sweden

The EU membership did not open the FIN-S border to be crossed everywhere. The Schengen agreement was the one. However, every practical place to cross to border was opened before the EU era by bilateral agreements. (Remember: the border runs along rivers.)

Quite few border crossings related things changed by the membership to EU and Schengen. The butter adventures to Sweden ceased, and Ikea built a store in Haparanda.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 10:10 PM   #16242
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Here is all you need to know
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Vojvodina reminds of Moravia a province that will never become a country.
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Old November 3rd, 2017, 02:15 AM   #16243
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Germany’s occupied?
Whatever.
I agree with you Penn

But there is still Ramstein Air Base :P
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Old November 3rd, 2017, 04:00 AM   #16244
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I agree with you Penn

But there is still Ramstein Air Base :P


I once heard a German train conductor say “Kaiserslautern - K-Town!”

Speaking only for myself, any time Europe wants us to leave them to defend themselves, it’s fine with me....
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Old November 4th, 2017, 12:20 AM   #16245
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Old November 5th, 2017, 02:39 PM   #16246
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During the recent session of the Serbian-Hungarian Economic Commission in Subotica, the opening of two new border crossings next year - Rastina near Sombor and Rabe on the triple border of Serbia, Hungary and Romania was announced.

Rastina-Bácsszentgyörgy









Source: https://pannonrtv.com/rovatok/gazdas...ti-hataratkelo
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Old November 5th, 2017, 02:49 PM   #16247
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And we can see the Hungarian fence all along. This remind of the Cold War & Kadar's communism
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BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS

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Old November 5th, 2017, 04:47 PM   #16248
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And we can see the Hungarian fence all along. This remind of the Cold War & Kadar's communism
You get the difference between locking in your own citizens (Kádár's communism) and preventing an uncontrolled mass entry/transit of foreigners without valid travel documents, don't you?

Republic of Macedonia erected the same kind of fence, for the very same reason, and very rightfully so.
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Old November 5th, 2017, 06:10 PM   #16249
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Quote:
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You get the difference between locking in your own citizens (Kádár's communism) and preventing an uncontrolled mass entry/transit of foreigners without valid travel documents, don't you?

Republic of Macedonia erected the same kind of fence, for the very same reason, and very rightfully so.
Moreover, this fence is temporary, since they will remove it when the border crossing will be operational and people with proper papers will be able to cross it.
No freedom of movement is limited, as before they build the road it wasn't possible to cross the border there anyway.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 5th, 2017, 11:09 PM   #16250
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Indonesian road, just Timor Leste some mettres ahead

https://www.google.es/maps/@-8.97858...2!8i6656?hl=es

Does anyone wonder what does sign says?
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Old November 6th, 2017, 12:26 AM   #16251
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Warning of the border?
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Old November 6th, 2017, 01:58 AM   #16252
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Does anyone know why Hungarys motorways are in such poor state? I remember about 5-6 years ago they were all in pristine condition.
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Old November 6th, 2017, 02:18 AM   #16253
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Heavy wear caused by very heavy traffic (especially M1, but also M5 and M7). Current focus of road projects seems to be on Eastern Hungary, the western part appears somewhat neglected (M86 as only notable accomplished project), including repaving where necessary.
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Old November 6th, 2017, 08:42 AM   #16254
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Quote:
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Warning of the border?
Guess it but surprised not fenced and no other surveillance

and seems to say more
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Old November 6th, 2017, 01:06 PM   #16255
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Quote:
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Warning of the border?
It seems like an EU project plaque to me
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Old November 8th, 2017, 01:12 PM   #16256
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This is so calm EU/EEA (FIN/N) border crossing in the far north of Finland.
GSV
No one present there but CCTV operates on the spot
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Old November 8th, 2017, 02:51 PM   #16257
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Lol.... not far from there, look at here...

https://www.google.be/maps/@69.67662...7i13312!8i6656


Seems not to be worried about cars or people crossing border (no cameras, no booths) but worried about animals (fence and irons in the border that makes animal not crossing roads).
Have seen some of these pics in countryshire, just in a fenced area to avoid animals to go out... but first time on a border pass!!!!
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Old November 8th, 2017, 06:23 PM   #16258
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That's a reindeerfence, those are often at international borders, but also elsewhere. Land owners don't want anyone elses raindeer eating their grass and there may be disputes in court.

Here is a "bridge" over the fence between Norway and Sweden:


This fence is inside Norway, it's clearly more reindeer has been eating on one side:
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Old November 8th, 2017, 09:52 PM   #16259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mappero View Post
This is so calm EU/EEA (FIN/N) border crossing in the far north of Finland.
GSV
No one present there but CCTV operates on the spot
The border crossing road is not deserted: the AADT is about 620. Nuorgam is the northernmost village in the EU. The important thing is that there is an alcohol store, with huge sales figures. Norwegians buy more than 90% of the products.

There is a quite big food store for a village of 200 people, too. 95+ per cent of the clients are from Norway.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 10:30 PM   #16260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
That's a reindeerfence, those are often at international borders, but also elsewhere.
Basically, there are three ways to cross a reindeer fence:


Under


Over


Through

Variations exist:


Quite a common setup: Horizontal bars are detachable


Fence over troubled water


Bridge with horizontal bars, "ferist" in Norwegian. Reindeer do not enter.
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