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Old November 19th, 2017, 09:23 PM   #16281
Corvinus
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St2373 (D) -> L23 (A), crossing into Austrian functional exclave of Jungholz.

St2373 is a connector road between B310 and the border.
Jungholz is an Austrian piece of land that is connected to the rest of Austria by a single point only (i.e. not even a telephone cable could be laid between the two without touching German territory), making it a "functional exclave". This had some implications (and still has): Before Austria's EU accession, Jungholz was part of the German customs territory, it has German VAT and before the Euro, used the DM as its currency. Also, its population is about half Austrian, half German.

I guess the border crossings to Germany were never manned.


1. There is no Austria sign right at the border (there is one 1km back). German border signs visible to the left (larger squared one: country name in EU flag, smaller round one: Bundesadler). Border line is clearly visible by the change in road surface. It is indicated by small white signs on the bridge guard rail.




2. The border sign on the bridge




3. Driven up about 300m into Austrian territory and looking back. Border and German signs visible at the bend in the distance.




Taken these photos in 2017.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 05:11 PM   #16282
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cro...ge=BBFc3QU_1|2

Wedding held at the USA-Mexico border
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Old November 20th, 2017, 11:12 PM   #16283
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Border crossing between Syrian Kurdistan and Iraqi Kurdistan, with a small boat across the Tigris river


http://www.dsw-photo.com/Travel/To-T...s-Against-ISIS
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old November 21st, 2017, 09:31 AM   #16284
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The Iron curtain through rail station between Czechoslovakia and Germany - Železná Ruda

And the video:
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Old November 21st, 2017, 03:04 PM   #16285
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That has to be with West Germany. What is funny there is that the inside room was divided on two. As I can see on the ČSSR side there is nothing functional.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 08:14 PM   #16286
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Yes, it's the Bavarian border town of Bayerisch Eisenstein.

An updated image is here.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 08:30 PM   #16287
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Yes those examples of the Iron Curtain's bordering towns and passes to the West never stop to amaze me.

I wonder if the Czechoslovaks and Soviets decided to shoot any illegal immigration there.
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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
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Old November 21st, 2017, 09:17 PM   #16288
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Of course they did.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 12:09 AM   #16289
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What's worth remembering is that in general, you couldn't get close to the border. People living in Zelezna Ruda would have been trusted to live there and not to make an attempt at crossing the border illegally, while Czechoslovakia had a 12km wide 'border zone' in which you could only live there if you were either known not to be trouble (for the regime) or if you had a pass allowing you to be there.

There was also a fence several kilometers inland, so by the time you got anywhere near the border, you would already be detected. There were other obstacles and watchtowers before the main border fence, so the chances of even getting near the relatively peaceful fence that West Germans would have seen were minimal. If someone did managed to get to that final fence in the station, if they couldn't be physically captured, they would probably be free - border guards tended not to risk shooting into the West. But it wasn't likely that they would even get close.

In this case, there were actually border guards using the Czech side of the station as their barracks.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 12:16 AM   #16290
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What about Chechoslovakia - DDR border?
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 12:25 AM   #16291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What about Chechoslovakia - DDR border?
More relaxed, but still well guarded. Officers used to asked where you had been, what you had been doing there and why.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 12:29 AM   #16292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What about Chechoslovakia - DDR border?
Generally speaking, the Warsaw Pact (but excluding the USSR) countries had quite light fortifications. Fences were common, sometimes with barbed wire, but nothing unusual or even on the scale of the current LT-RU/BY fences. The early days (1945-1960) were still quite heavily guarded, but later on, the two countries had visa-free access with each other and it wasn't so heavily guarded. You wouldn't get shot in those times for approaching the border, but you could still expect some questioning if you had no reason to be there.

However, they were normally very strict with the control of people and goods. There were no 'tourist' crossings, and only a handful of official crossings.

One of the most curious things is that these "friendly" countries had such strict controls with each other, something that the EEC had more or less given up on by the mid 1970's.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 12:46 AM   #16293
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Austria managed its borders with Italy well into the late 1980s
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 01:26 AM   #16294
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60's-80's Italian "anni di piombo" surely didn't help that...
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 11:19 AM   #16295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Austria managed its borders with Italy well into the late 1980s
Yes, Austria wasn't in the EEC, so controls were always stricter there. Austria was (until the end of the Cold War) also keen to highlight their neutrality, so they also didn't sign the Schengen Agreement until 1995.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 12:26 PM   #16296
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Yes but what is interesting is that for example Czechoslovaks didn't travel legally to the West at all.... It was almost impossible for them?
And as we know the differences were very big, from the prices up to the propaganda that the 'West' is evil.

Fortunately these countries today blended well with the West
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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 04:24 PM   #16297
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It was almost impossible. Even Yugoslavia was hard to reach. On the other hand, my family used to travel to Hungary on regular basis.

My grandpa "fought" for Hungarian army in WW2, had been captured and held in Soviet captivity even until three years after the end of WW2 (until 1948). Some war tribunal then decided that act was a breach of the international law and therefore he was given some financial reimbursement for the rest of his life (and after he died my grandma took this advantage over until her death in 2006). The only condition was to withdraw the money from exact branch of the exact bank in Budapest annually. My family usually joined this activity to drop by some relatives and do shopping. Despite the east bloc was formally unitary, there were some differences in shop items (especially Hungarian Salami was (and fortunately still is) of quality that could couldn't be compared with Czechoslovak products of similar kind).
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Last edited by volodaaaa; November 22nd, 2017 at 04:41 PM.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 04:38 PM   #16298
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It remembers me another point

After (or just before ending) Spanish civil war and just before WWII started, about 300.000 people moved to France.
A lot of them where in refugee camps. Some of them could go faster and work for a while.

Some companies knew it and worked illegally for a few money.

A loooooong time after, French government decided to pay a minimal retirement salary to each person who worked for French companies if they had any proof. It was enough a paper with their name, a picture or so.
I guess half of them could, half couldn't.... it wasn't too much but French government paid accorded.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 05:44 PM   #16299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Despite the east bloc was formally unitary, there were some differences in shop items (especially Hungarian Salami was (and fortunately still is) of quality that could couldn't be compared with Czechoslovak products of similar kind).
A linguistic question: why bloc and not block? What's the semantic difference and why so?

In all context I always see the spelling: block, except for the politics and the Eastern Bloc.

In the Eastern Bloc, it was generally difficult to import goods from abroad (especially from the western countries, not to mention the US), so the countries in this part of Europe were possibly self-sustainable and developed most branches of industry on their own. Here in Poland, most commonly available household equipment, consumer electronics, food products, even computers - were the ones of Polish brands, produced in Poland. Often not designed locally, rather based on a licence bought from one of the western companies - but produced locally. By the way, the products of highest quality were typically chosen for the export, and the quality of those available in shops (if they were available at all, of course) was lower.

So, for example, practically all the consumer electronics (radios, TV sets, audio equipment) available in Poland was branded Unitra, which was actually an association of the Polish electronics factories. There were imported ones as well, for example the first popular color TV model in Poland was the Soviet Rubin (which was, by the way, prone to self-ignition, from what I often read). But those are rather exceptions.

However, in the Comecon (Council for Mutual Economic Assistance - I believe, each country used its own abbreviation, like in Poland we called it RWPG for Rada Wzajemnej Pomocy Gospodarczej; using English abbreviations seems to have been avoided, the reasons also seem to be obvious), there were countries which were specialized in producing some goods and exported them to whole the Comecon (whole in theory). E.g. Czechoslovakia specialized in trams (Tatra), Hungary buses (Ikarus), on the other hand, Hungarians did not produce cars and, for example, they imported many Polish Fiat 126p.

But this didn't work very well, and e.g. we in Poland never bought the Tatra trams (except for some several units), but we produced our owns in Konstal, Chorzów (although... their products were designed by reverse engineering of the Tatra trams), or, concerning the buses, we partially imported Ikarus products, partially produced our owns, under two different brands of different companies in different towns: Jelcz and Autosan. We also imported some Sanos buses from Yugoslavia - they were used as higher class units for longest or international routes, but they also first got superseded in the 1990s by the western constructions.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 06:42 PM   #16300
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Sanos was from Skopje the factory that dealed with buses around SFRY and the communist bloc.
What is interesting about this is that YU had deals with many West countries and also with Libya and they were exported even there.



And.... As you can see many communist countries had their own large state industries that produced cars, buses and rail cars and almost nothing was imported from the West or from China.
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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS

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Last edited by Junkie; November 22nd, 2017 at 06:47 PM.
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