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Old December 14th, 2017, 03:16 PM   #16361
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Why did they choose IBM/360?
I believe the main reason is the IBM's policy to bundle the computer and the operating system. That was in effect until the late 1970's. If you happened to "get" a computer somewhere to be reverse engineered, you were able to get the operating system as well.

In addition, IBM was threatened by antitrust lawsuites, and to avoid them, IBM put the early basic operating systems available to the competitors. I do not know if the ES series were considered as competitors, but the operating system was anyway rather easily available. The era of licensed software arrived later.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 06:03 PM   #16362
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Old December 14th, 2017, 10:00 PM   #16363
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Checkpoint of the Republic of Serbian Krajina at Zagreb-Belgrade motorway after operation "Flash" in May 1995:



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Old December 14th, 2017, 11:26 PM   #16364
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Take in mind what you say here.
That was no 'Republic' but a self proclaimed and separatist enclave in a sovereign country that had borders as according to the previous state constitution of the then dissolved country.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 01:20 AM   #16365
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Even the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia didn't recognize the so-called "republic of serbian krajina''.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 02:07 AM   #16366
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Old December 15th, 2017, 10:54 AM   #16367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
Checkpoint of the Republic of Serbian Krajina at Zagreb-Belgrade motorway after operation "Flash" in May 1995:



Thats a rare shot. Where did you find it ? Google ?. Its interesting that the croats didn't completely damage it. It looks like they were taking care of the barrack. Why is the road muddy ?
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Old December 15th, 2017, 01:19 PM   #16368
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Furthermore, the Republic of Serbia will have to recognize the border crossings at Jarinje and Brnjak as international before the entering the European Union.
And the fact that the border between Serbia and BiH is still not yet determined, at least there are some disputed areas over Drina.

What is more funny is that Serbia doesn't want any fast solution because they actually border the entity of RS but not the federation.

BiH's pushing for full determination but they didn't get any answer from the second side.

http://www.alo.rs/granica-izmedu-bih...tvrdena/135632
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Old December 15th, 2017, 01:39 PM   #16369
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Thats a rare shot. Where did you find it ? Google ?. Its interesting that the croats didn't completely damage it. It looks like they were taking care of the barrack. Why is the road muddy ?
It was posted by other user at Serbian section of SSC. Road is muddy probably because it was used by military units during the operation.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 03:00 PM   #16370
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As for now, I don't really understand WHY the eastern money was practically not recognized in the West, while the western money was very well recognized (and worth much more than the local money) in the East.
The answer to this is convertibility, or lack of. It's quite complicated to explain, but this article does a good job of explaining it - http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPag...v=54&id=&page=

Essentially, the problem was that the złoty (and others) were kept at artificially high exchange rates. So, let's say you went from West Berlin to East Berlin for a day. You were forced to exchange 25DM for 25 Ostmarks - which was nonsense, because the real rate was perhaps closer to 5:1 on the black market. You could buy Ostmarks in West Berlin, but it was illegal to import and export them.

Then - there was no demand for Ostmarks on Western markets. You couldn't buy East German products in Ostmark, but you rather had to use hard currency (USD, DM, whatever). Even within COMECON, a special "convertible ruble" was used for accounting purposes and trade rather than national currencies.

Quote:
WHY were similar goods (not only food, but also e.g. locally produced consumer electronics) so much cheaper here rather than in the West, even though the quality was, of course, lower, but not much lower, and still much higher than plenty of the currently produced electronics with planned lifetime. And why this doesn't end up in avalanche of import of our stuff in the West (even though the eastern countries had very much interest in exporting goods to the West, as they were always missing western money for things like imported components for the produced equipment).
That's simply a consequence of a completely idiotic economic system based on witch magic. Local electronics were cheap (in USD/DM terms) because the labour was cheap, nothing more.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 09:27 PM   #16371
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So... the cure for the problem of the eastern countries with having enough western currency, would be just making the "black market" exchange rate the official one?

But then they would be just saying they have not enough money to import western components and so on, which are just expensive, instead of saying they have not enough western currency. Which would be the same in practice Because economics is economics, it's a science, and you can't change its rules by legal acts.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 09:30 PM   #16372
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SFRY got many liras from Italy in the 80's because many Yugoslavs went there to do business and to buy some clothes... Obviously there were no Euro coins back then....

I think communist countries used to take the money and keep it because there was no legal way of obtaining them.
If you used dinars in Italy it was possible to exchange.....
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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

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MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
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Old December 15th, 2017, 09:46 PM   #16373
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Quote:
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SFRY got many liras from Italy in the 80's because many Yugoslavs went there to do business and to buy some clothes... Obviously there were no Euro coins back then....

I think communist countries used to take the money and keep it because there was no legal way of obtaining them.
If you used dinars in Italy it was possible to exchange.....
I've read that Yugoslav dinars were exchangeable internationally, unlikely money from Warsaw pact countries. Especially in Trieste, where most Yugoslavs went to buy things impossible to find at home (especially Western clothes), dinars were accepted by shops and exchanged by banks.
Those who owned large amounts of dinars when hyperinflation started in the late 1980s surely got a big rip off.
They said that many Yugoslavs had never been to Ljubljana, others had never been to Zagreb, others had never been to Belgrade, but everyone had been to Trieste.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old December 15th, 2017, 10:23 PM   #16374
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I've read that Yugoslav dinars were exchangeable internationally, unlikely money from Warsaw pact countries. Especially in Trieste, where most Yugoslavs went to buy things impossible to find at home (especially Western clothes), dinars were accepted by shops and exchanged by banks.
Those who owned large amounts of dinars when hyperinflation started in the late 1980s surely got a big rip off.
They said that many Yugoslavs had never been to Ljubljana, others had never been to Zagreb, others had never been to Belgrade, but everyone had been to Trieste.
Yes because SFRY was non-aligned country and it was perceived as a socialist country without Soviet dominance, it had many connections with the west. Italy and SFRY had very big trade, and also with other western countries.
But Trieste was somehow disputed although we already know about the deal that happen in the 50's...
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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
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Old December 15th, 2017, 10:34 PM   #16375
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But Trieste was somehow disputed although we already know about the deal that happen in the 50's...
Nothing was disputed after 1975 (Treaty of Osimo), although the situation became de facto stable with the Memorandum of London in 1954.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 11:07 PM   #16376
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Tito and Saragat were very good friends btw

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Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

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BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS
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Old December 15th, 2017, 11:16 PM   #16377
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An interesting case was also the Polish-German border. It was accepted by the East Germany, of course, as they had no choice being an Eastern Bloc country. But the West Germany finally recognized it and signed a treaty with Poland only in 1970.

This way, for example, in the West German system of license plate city/county codes, introduced in 1956, there were still codes for the cities and counties in the area which Germany lost for Poland in the war.
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Old December 17th, 2017, 11:36 AM   #16378
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unfortunately only in german, but nevertheless quite interesting:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostzon...fz-Kennzeichen

there were obviously even two lists, from 1950 and 1953. Some places in the former GDR got exactly the codes intended by this list, those marked in green.

Unfortunately the list does not make a diffenrence between places in the former GDR and the former "Eastern territories" - nowadays Poland and Russia. Also the list is not really consistent, since there where codes for places which 1937 weren´t part of Germany, i.e. Posen in the list of 1953.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 11:28 AM   #16379
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So... the cure for the problem of the eastern countries with having enough western currency, would be just making the "black market" exchange rate the official one?
Yup, but then the real economic situation would become apparent. The same nonsense was going on in Argentina recently, too.

Theoretically, you would always have been able to exchange 1 Ostmark for 1DM at the official rate, but in reality, people could only exchange a small amount into 'hard' currency. I seem to remember the limits were about 20USD or so a year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italysf
I've read that Yugoslav dinars were exchangeable internationally
Yes and no. They weren't officially convertible, but there was no restriction on holding foreign currency, meaning the DM acted as a kind of reserve currency while payments were made in Yugoslav dinars. Like everything in Yugoslavia, it was a bit of West, bit of East. As there were no restrictions on foreign currency and the DM was widely used for things such as property, the dinar was quite convertible. Most savings were kept in DM, not YUD though, as the YUD would devalue about 25% a year as the government would cover their expenses by just printing money.

I seem to remember that one thing that Yugoslavia did that was very Eastern was demanding that foreign motorists only pay in DEM, not YUD.

Last edited by Eulanthe; December 18th, 2017 at 11:36 AM.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 11:41 AM   #16380
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AFAIK, you are allowed to carry out only 1000 Moroccan dirham (about 90 EUR only) if you leave Morocco.
This issue makes quite hard to get dirham out of Morocco but not impossible. In several banks they have some currencies and can request for them.
Anyway, due to difficulty to get them, exchange rates aren't cheap and they are requested only for people who wanna arrive by plane and get a taxi without any queues for money exchange.


I wonder... how many countries do not allow to export currency, or barely allow?
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