Things You'd Like to Improve in Liverpool

[Blabber II]

I went for one of my periodic wanders around Liverpool today. Unfortunately, for the first hour, I have to confess to feeling really disappointed in the place.

It was partly that weather was dismal, rainy and windy when I came out of Lime St Station. But the main thing was... St Johns precinct. I know everyone is aware of how dreadful that complex is, but today, I think it looked worse than I ever remember it being. It just looked absolutely fucking awful. Like what you'd expect in some crappy small town, having fallen on bad times. And that's what visitors are greeted with when as they enter the city from its main public transport interchange.

I just find it depressing. The multi storey car park and crappy, dated exterior, complete with boarded up frontages and the worst looking hotel in Europe (quite possibly.. if you exclude "The Liner".) It somehow draws one's attention away from St George's Hall... and then one's attention is drawn to the left... to Concourse House... Oh dear.

That area is an absolute travesty. The city feels absolutely horrible around Lime St station and I find that very worrying, especially with CofC coming up.

The whole Central Station development (which should hugely improve Lewis's and Renshaw St - also very small time) and the planned improvements to Lime St, couldn't come a moment too soon. I love Liverpool, and yet the experience of leaving the station today just made me feel really depressed and disappointed in the place. [- Not to worry though, I ended up trying the Belverdere (sp?) Arms out and despite only wanting a quick pint, ended up having 5 or 6 and spending the afternoon talking to old men at the bar. The people made it all better.]

Anyway... St Johns.. I don't know if this has occurred to anybody else, but the building is not only ugly and horrid in itself, but that is not even its worst crime. Its worst crime is the absolutely magnificent views it blocks from the front entrance/exit to Lime St station. If that imbecile of a complex wasn't there then the view would be world class. A person could arrive in Liverpool and then leave straight away and it wouldn't matter, they'd take away that view.. the vister that rolls gently down to the river, with the Liver Building and all those other stunning buildings in full view. Instead, there is a car park and a shopping centre, that would look bad even in the likes of Stockport and Rotherham, blocking the view.

I am therefore a bit disappointed by the proposals to improve St Johns and to cover it in a giant TV screen. The only decent option is to get rid of it completely. It is embarrassing and causing enormous damage. If the owners of that building have any decency and sense they will just demolish and start again. It is vile. And the market inside is one of the crappiest I have ever been in.

[Awayo]

Good post, Blabs, and admirable work in the Belv.

[kat2]

St Johns is due for complete refurbishment/ demolition at the end of 2008
(hope that cheers some up!)
kat

[Awayo]

More of a refurb than anything more worthwhile, kat, I expect. But we'll see.

[Boards]

Scrap the tolls for a start. I'm a great believer in increased pedestrianisation too.

[liverpolitan]

1. Remove the city centre from the control of local councillors - its planning should be run by a cabinet drawn from the city region (councillors and also experts) and free from the stupidity and corruption that Liverpool's local politics has suffered from.

2. Develop some parks in the city centre

3. No more 1 or 2 bed flats in the city centre UNLESS they have balconies, access to roof gardens and are part of mixed developments.

4. A timetable to remove the blight of ultra-low density suburban housing in the city centre, starting with Cornwallis estate.

5. Create a suitable site for Everton on fringes of city centre

etc etc. endlessly, main one is the first one I think - the mistakes come from having shitty councillors who think of a village centre instead of a regional centre.

[kung_fuzi]

Originally Posted by liverpolitan

1. Remove the city centre from the control of local councillors - its planning should be run by a cabinet drawn from the city region (councillors and also experts) and free from the stupidity and corruption that Liverpool's local politics has suffered from.

2. Develop some parks in the city centre

3. No more 1 or 2 bed flats in the city centre UNLESS they have balconies, access to roof gardens and are part of mixed developments.

4. A timetable to remove the blight of ultra-low density suburban housing in the city centre, starting with Cornwallis estate.

5. Create a suitable site for Everton on fringes of city centre

etc etc. endlessly, main one is the first one I think - the mistakes come from having shitty councillors who think of a village centre instead of a regional centre.

Hopefully now that the first stage of City region governance has started your first point may begin to happen.
For far too long the councillors of the various local authorities have been looking after their own self interests and not seeing the bigger picture.
An enlightened few have realised that the city centre is the catalyst for the whole regions future regeneration.

Points 2,3 and 5 are all desirable but point 4 would have to be handled sympathetically as it smacks of the 1960s where whole communities were destroyed and the populace thrown out to the wilds of Kirkby,halewood etc..

[thecityofgold]

We need a proper city centre transport network. It's OK if you're getting a bus in from Wavertree or wherever but almost impossible to get public transport around the city. This would make Liverpool feel like a bigger and more serious city. A tram stop somewhere near my flat would be great.

[yoshef]

scotland road/byrom street area behind the world museum/by john moores/up to the wallasey tunnel

• get rid of those horrendous Churchill Way flyovers & suspended walkway
• Narrow hunter street (its a race track at the moment)
• There are plots of land where the flyovers where (small car park/trees) build something useful there
• Build something on the ugly car park on the corner of Great Crosshall street/Byrom street
• Narrow scotland road, or build something in the middle (is it really necessary to have a huge swathe of useless grass/trees in the middle of this motorway?)
• sort out that stupidly designed junction with Leeds street (the one where cars get caught in no-mans land and block the pedestrian crossing)
• Build something useful along scotland road between the university & the tunnel approach on both sides

[adman]

There's a Malaysia version of this thread. Interesting to read their suggestions.

[Villiers Terrace]

in order of importance

1: A comprehensive, munipally-run, round-the-clock, citywide tram and U-Bahn system. Buses are shite and entertaining their privately-run huckster operators represents a catastrophic collapse back to the primeordial swamp.

2: A city repopulation back to the 1.mill mark, and, of course the formal acknowlegement of the Wirral Liverpool suburb.

3: No post-6pm close-down.

4: Level the Precinct and most of the the newer shit around the bubble-bustops/Williamson Sq. and either:
a)return it as was circa 1890 (unlikely given the usual knee-jerk response to anything involving "rebuild")
b)rethink the area with the most stunning modern archtecture (unlikely given that there isn't much stunning modern archtecture being produced)
c)make the whole space once massive city square as in Siena, or an amazing Italianate garden as in Place des Vosges, Paris. (unlikely as it doesn't involve Starbux)

5: Reignite citywide hubs of activity and attraction. Lodge Lane, Wavertree Rd, Edge Hill, Upper Parlie, with bars, nightclubs, venues etc etc.

[Joe the red]

Refurbishment, renewal, renovation of the glorious Georgian and Victorian buildings.

More mixed use towers.

Less 7 storey and shorter developments.

More public squares with quality public art and small city parks.

Demolition of St John's.

Quality integrated public transport network.

Improved city governance.

[Chris B]

Originally Posted by Blabber II

the worst looking hotel in Europe (quite possibly.. if you exclude "The Liner".)

I'll grant you the exterior of The Liner is a complete monstrosity of the highest order, but having been inside a couple of times for a works function, it's like stepping into a different world. Everything is of the highest quality, with The Liner theme carried on down to the smallest detail.

As to what I'd change, here's my list -

(1). Level St. Johns, excluding the beacon. Re-build the area in the style of The Paradise Project with open streets that link properly with the surrounding areas. Create flows from Lime Street through to Williamson Sqaure and beyond.

(2). Demolish the Churchill way flyovers. I don't think much explaination is needed here. Re-jig the road systems in the area to allow for their loss.

(3). Perhaps my biggest suggestion. Build a new MSCP on the site immediately behind the Adelphi. Allow retail space on the ground floor to create an active street scene. Demolish the Mount Pleasant MSCP. Use the site for a mid-size hotel, and smaller retail units intended for the local area rather than the typical shopper. Use the remainder of the site for a new public park with mature trees to add some much needed greenery and openness to the area.

(4). Both sides of Lime Street between the ABC and Kumar Bros. There is so much potential in this area for a variety of uses.

(5). Picton Road before the overhead railway bridge. There is a mile-long stretch here of a dirty wall hiding under-used, or dis-used railway sidings and warehouses. If Network Rail sold off the edge of the site, plus the derelict warehouses, this whole side of the road could be transformed with new buildings and services for this densely residential area.

(6). There is a large expanse of open space along Great Howard Street, just past Stanley Dock. I would encourage Toys R Us and Costco to re-locate here. Their current position with an expanding CBD is untenable in the mid to long term. It would allow space for future developments, and tidy up a long-derelict site.

I know some of my ideas won't ever happen, but if they did it would improve the respective areas no end.

[kat2]

St Johns is being levelled at the end of next year! being sea faring, I see Liverpools future in freight & the river, we need to make far better use of whats natural about Liverpool, its location ship building and freight.
I do hope however we wont end up in a situation like Manchester, we need to improve the quality of life for Liverpools residential areas, better housing, employment, shops and travel facilities.
kat

[kung_fuzi]

Originally Posted by kat2

St Johns is being levelled at the end of next year! being sea faring, I see Liverpools future in freight & the river, we need to make far better use of whats natural about Liverpool, its location ship building and freight.
I do hope however we wont end up in a situation like Manchester, we need to improve the quality of life for Liverpools residential areas, better housing, employment, shops and travel facilities.
kat

Thought it was just a refurb?

[eyesparky]

Originally Posted by kung_fuzi

Thought it was just a refurb?

It is.

[Veinticinco]

Originally Posted by kung_fuzi

Thought it was just a refurb?

Same. I think kat's making things up!

THE shopping centre is to undergo a major development over the course of two years, starting in 2009, which is described as a significant multi-million pound refurbishment which will cement its position as the key retail anchor for that part of the city centre.

It'll probably be under £10m and mean a new paint job. I wish it could be bought, blown up and made into a public space or something good. It won't though.

[LABlue]

Originally Posted by twiz

Same. I think kat's making things up!



It'll probably be under £10m and mean a new paint job. I wish it could be bought, blown up and made into a public space or something good. It won't though.

I think I read somewhere its around 17M phased over a number of years - just enough for a new paint job . That seems to be a big site and as much as Id love to see it torn down I cant see it when there is so much more new retail being built at Grosvenor and I dont know what else would work - offices and residential demand will be taken up by other developments as far as I can see .
How about a nice new ground for Everton - St Johns Stadium - has nice ring to it

[kat2]

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...4375-20088628/some interesting links regarding st Johns, (recent)
===============================================
Project background:
Liverpool City Council is considering its options in relation to the relocation of the St John's Market, as part of a major refurbishment/redevelopment proposal for the centre.
In addition, the proposed redevelopment forms part of a wider Asset Management initiative, which will extend beyond the existing footprint of the centre onto adjoining City Council land and Clayton Square
http://www.lsh.ie/pages/casestudies_...d=249&service=

[kat2]

ST JOHNS shopping centre in Liverpool is to be completely rebuilt as part of a plan by its owner to compete with Grosvenor's Liverpool One scheme.

Landlord Land Securities will be investing tens of millions of pounds in the complete overhaul of the centre from 2009 onwards
http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...4375-17563232/

knew I read it somewhere
kat