Rays planning new ballpark?

[John F]

Cuban, I think the money is still there. $10 Million was allocated for a new training facility to replace One Buc Place in Westshore. The Bucs ended up buying Tampa Bay Center Mall and building their training facility... if I do recollect correctly, they did it all on their own dime and not with any of the cash from the allocation.

Now, if the TSA tried to use it toward another function besides the Buccaneers and their facilities, it may draw a lawsuit from the Glazers. That's how they operate, or how they have in the past: "What's ours is ours and you will serve us."

[John F]

A little hunting confirms what I thought... The Bucs think that money is their own. I do not know how this was settled:

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/22/Hi...Bucs_say.shtml

[TampaMike]

With stadium debate swirling, Rays schedule Monday statement
By Stephen Nohlgren, Times Staff Writer
Posted: Jun 20, 2010 04:41 PM

ST. PETERSBURG — Tampa Bay Rays owner Stuart Sternberg will make "an important announcement regarding the future of the Rays' franchise" Monday at Tropicana Field, the team announced.

Team officials would not elaborate on details of Sternberg's 12:15 p.m. statement, but the timing and handling of the statement suggests it is significant.

The team is not playing Monday. Reporters typically would not be at the stadium unless summoned.

The announcement fueled speculation that Sternberg will finally elaborate on the team's position regarding a new stadium, and possibly other issues.

The St. Petersburg Times reported Sunday that Sternberg has also asked for a meeting with St. Petersburg Mayor Bill Foster, which will be either Monday or Tuesday.

"I'm just glad the discussion is starting,'' St. Petersburg City Council Chairwoman Leslie Curran said Sunday. "Everything that people were hearing about involved Tampa, or Hillsborough County. It was not St. Petersburg."

The Rays have remained largely silent about any desires for a new stadium since their proposal for a waterfront stadium fizzled with stiff criticism in 2008. The team's contract for the Trop runs through 2027.

Rather than stoking the stadium drumbeat, Rays officials have said they want to concentrate on building a good team and contending for another World Series.

But their silence became increasingly conspicuous as the stadium issue continued to stir.

A coalition of community leaders warned that the Tampa Bay area risks losing the team without a new stadium. Talk of possibly moving the stadium site to Hillsborough County roiled passions on both sides of the bay. And St. Petersburg officials kept asking the team to make their desires public.

A Foster-Sternberg meeting would be "healthy,'' said Pinellas County Administrator Bob LaSala. The Rays "and all of the community benefit from the exchange of ideas so everybody knows and understands each others needs."

So far, the team had not requested face time with county officials, LaSala said, but he expected that would come soon.

Curran said she lobbied Rays president Matt Silverman earlier this month when she was throwing out the first pitch at the Trop.

She "told him we ought to sit down and talk," Curran said.

Silverman responded that the team was seriously thinking of doing just that, Curran said.

Now Sternberg is coming to town on an off-day to meet with the mayor and say something to the media.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgo...tement/1103784

If Sternberg says they have enough money to build a new ballpark all by theirselves and Foster is that commited in keeping the Rays in St. Pete, he might go over the majority who oppose the city paying off the rest of the lease and do so anyways. Wasn't mentioned in the article, but I can see the Rays working out a deal like that. And being how important the Rays are for the county's sales and tourism taxes, which then the importance would move down to Foster, I don't see either the city or county letting the Rays go with that type of plan.

[CubanBread]

I'm anxious man,... Beginning of the end or a new beginning? ... If the Bay area loses the Rays I don't think I could watch MLB anymore,.. My alliance my turn to the Marlins, but on the other hand I may be so pissed that I just give up on pro baseball altogether.

I get kind of a gut feeling it may be positive though, simply because I don't think they would drop bad news mid way through the season and piss off the fans when the team is one of the best in the league.

[TampaMike]

That's one of the reasons I think it will be a positive thing. Another reason is that they are having the public announcement first and then meeting with Mayor Foster either later on Monday or Tuesday. If it was more of "Hey, we're leaving for ______", they would had meet with Foster first. And with Foster being hush hush about it, it's likely he already knows a brief of what will be announced tomorrow and they'll go in to details later on.

I have a 80% feeling it will be that the city and team found a deal for a new stadium in St. Petersburg and will leave Tropicana Field before the lease dealdine.

[TampaGuy]

Originally Posted by CubanBread

I'm anxious man,... Beginning of the end or a new beginning? ... If the Bay area loses the Rays I don't think I could watch MLB anymore,.. My alliance my turn to the Marlins, but on the other hand I may be so pissed that I just give up on pro baseball altogether.

I get kind of a gut feeling it may be positive though, simply because I don't think they would drop bad news mid way through the season and piss off the fans when the team is one of the best in the league.

This doesn't even cover how pissed I'd be if the Rays left.
Yeah, I'd probably become a Marlins fan, but... GRRR.

Let's hope it's a positive announcement.
Could it be a proposal? Like to the city and public at the same time?

Like: "We propose this design and this location, are you with us?"

[TampaMike]

Kinda off topic, but I'm going to start writing a editorial for SPT on the possibilities of the Bucs every breaching their lease contract for a new stadium. Considering their lease at Raymond James ends a year before Rays lease at Tropicana, it might be needed to analyze if it will ever happen.

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by TampaGuy

This doesn't even cover how pissed I'd be if the Rays left.
Yeah, I'd probably become a Marlins fan, but... GRRR.

Let's hope it's a positive announcement.
Could it be a proposal? Like to the city and public at the same time?

Like: "We propose this design and this location, are you with us?"

That's what I'm thinking. Either they (Rays) have been working on a design and location for months and are finally going to disclose their plans or they'll just announce what I have previously mentioned. It might be better off knowing where everyone stands with a new stadium so Pinellas can start planning for light rail.

[TampaGuy]

Well the announcement just told us what we already know.
They want a new stadium in a new location and are willing to look at all locations.

[John F]

I think it's high time we start a new thread on this :-) Cuz the Rays are certainly no longer looking at a waterfront ballpark int he location that this thread was started under...

[FloridaFuture]

http://builditdowntowntampa.org/default.aspx

Oh, and I renamed the thread.

[DShenise]

I said this in the Trop site redevelopment thread, but I don't think the Rays will accept a Pinellas County site. Everything they've done pushes towards Hillsborough or not in the TB area. I think the dream is a DT Tampa stadium.

And I am particularly enjoying all the amateur contract law experts chiming in on the Times website. Its like a endless sea of Yosemite Sams stomping and yelling. I'd love to see the city play hardball like all these clowns are asking and when it gets to court the best the city gets is like $25m. Then you'll see them complain about a corrupt judiciary or stupid leaders or whatever else. They are Tampa bound, period. The city ought to wise up and settle something within a year.

[joey7f]

If they end up in DT Tampa, (or if that is what everyone wants), I think they ought to push for it in tandem with the transit package. Not as another tax but just to let people know that if you are voting for LRT, you will be able to take transit to the game.

The idea of being able to have HSR and the Trolley also connect there is too tempting to consider anywhere else imo.

--Joey

[DShenise]

Yeah, but the transit vote is already scheduled. Now you could vote to extend the existing 1/2 penny when that is getting close to expiring. That might not be too bad either as by that time, the economy should be better.

[smiley]

I saw this comment - which I thought excellent:

I am glad Mayor Foster took the time to clearly explain why downtown St. Pete is a horrible location for a major sporting venue.

To this article:

Census estimates St. Petersburg lost population from 2008 to 2009

By Jamal Thalji, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Wednesday, June 23, 2010

ST. PETERSBURG — Last year the city lost about 420 residents out of a population of 244,753. That means the city lost 0.2 percent of its population.

That doesn't seem like such a big deal — except that Detroit lost the same percentage of its residents.

A shrinking city is not a prosperous city, some experts say. Those numbers give them reason to fear for St. Petersburg's future.

St. Petersburg joins such economically hard-hit Rust Belt cities as Flint, Cleveland, Buffalo and Detroit — cities that led the nation in population loss from 2008 to 2009, according to U.S. census estimates.

"It isn't a good sign for any area to be losing population," said Florida economist Hank Fishkind. "It erodes the demand for all goods and services."

Others say losing population isn't all bad, if it's managed well. Mayor Bill Foster said the city's population has long held steady between 240,000 to 250,000 residents, so he's not too worried.

"I don't think St. Pete has ever been of a mind-set that bigger is better," Foster said.

In fact, estimates show that St. Petersburg shrank by 1.8 percent this past decade, going from 249,000 residents to about 244,000. Clearwater suffered a sharper decline of 3.2 percent from 2000 to 2009. That's a loss of 3,400 residents out of a city of 109,000. But Clearwater also rebounded with 0.3 percent growth in 2009.

The census estimates aren't based on 2010 data, which is still being collected. It's based on the 2000 census updated with new boundaries, building permits and birth, death and migration records.

Experts say a shrinking St. Petersburg is the result of several dominoes falling onto the city at once:

• St. Petersburg has long chafed at its reputation as a retirement destination. But those seem like the good old days now.

Aging northerners can't afford to retire and can't sell their properties in this economy, so they can't come to Florida. But the competition for those who can afford to retire and move is fierce.

Arizona, North Carolina and Texas are all battling Florida to land the next generation of retirees: baby boomers.

"Boomers interested in relocating have other options to consider," said Florida AARP director Lori Parham in an e-mail. "We can't continue to sell warm weather and cheap land alone. We need to find new opportunities to spur growth and embrace them."

• Like the rest of Florida, the city may be losing people because there are no jobs to keep them here.

In May the state's unemployment rate was 11.7 — the same rate in the Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater area, according to the Florida Agency for Workforce Innovation.

St. Petersburg real estate broker Helen Torres said buyers are comparing Florida to better economies in Tennessee and Texas.

"They've got better jobs," she said. "They have to go where their bread is buttered."

• Cities like St. Petersburg are struggling in part because they can't find new residents to replace the old ones, said demographer Mark Mather with the Population Reference Bureau.

"It has a relatively old population and not a lot of new births compared to some cities," Mather said, "and there's just not a lot of migrants moving in to replace them."

One way to reverse that trend comes with way too much political baggage: increased immigration. "If you want your population to grow," he said, "immigration is a good way to do it."

• The foreclosure and housing crises also hit the city hard, according to Justin Hollander, an assistant professor for urban planning at Tufts University. He said 13 of the city's 16 ZIP codes lost residents from 2006 to 2009. But it's the same throughout the Sun Belt.

"Wide swaths of the Sun Belt are used to just growing all the time," he said. "But a large number of these places are just shrinking."

But Foster said the city's greatest limitation is natural: It's on a peninsula that's pretty much built out. But he said St. Petersburg doesn't need to rely on development like other Florida cities.

Instead, the mayor said he's focused on bringing in medical, banking and finance jobs to the city.

"I would measure the economic sustainability of a city by quality jobs paying living wages," Foster said.

And not all growth is good, said Hollander, if it means more demands on the environment, on resources, on government.

"There's no reason why we have to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger," he said. "My advice: Just go with it. Manage that change, get smaller, but get better."

Times researcher Shirl Kennedy contributed to this report. Jamal Thalji can be reached at thalji@sptimes.com or (727) 893-8472.



.Fast facts

U.S. census estimated population change

Cities 2009
population Loss Percent change
1. Flint, Mich. 111,475 1,382 - 1.2
2. Hampton, Va. 144,236 1,020 - 0.7
3. Cleveland, Ohio 431,363 2,658 - 0.6
4. Norfolk, Va. 233,333 1,320 - 0.6
5. Dayton, Ohio 153,857 718 - 0.5
6. Cape Coral 154,202 616 - 0.4
7. Buffalo, N.Y. 270,240 980 - 0.4
8. Akron, Ohio 207,216 664 - 0.3
9. South Bend, Ind. 104,215 321 - 0.3
10. Lansing, Mich. 113,810 319 - 0.3
14. St. Petersburg 244,324 429 - 0.2

Source: U.S. Census Bureau
http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth/...o-2009/1104313

[joey7f]

Originally Posted by DShenise

Yeah, but the transit vote is already scheduled. Now you could vote to extend the existing 1/2 penny when that is getting close to expiring. That might not be too bad either as by that time, the economy should be better.

I think the 1/2 cent tax ends in 2026. I am not sure they can afford to wait that long.

I was thinking of it more in terms of the crowd that can't imagine why they would EVER go downtown. You may not commute to work but you can commute to games, avoid traffic, parking etc. I am not suggesting that any part of the 1 cent tax should fund a new stadium for the Rays.

--Joey

[I-275westcoastfl]

Originally Posted by smiley

I saw this comment - which I thought excellent:



To this article:

Census estimates St. Petersburg lost population from 2008 to 2009

By Jamal Thalji, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Wednesday, June 23, 2010

ST. PETERSBURG — Last year the city lost about 420 residents out of a population of 244,753. That means the city lost 0.2 percent of its population.

That doesn't seem like such a big deal — except that Detroit lost the same percentage of its residents.

A shrinking city is not a prosperous city, some experts say. Those numbers give them reason to fear for St. Petersburg's future.

St. Petersburg joins such economically hard-hit Rust Belt cities as Flint, Cleveland, Buffalo and Detroit — cities that led the nation in population loss from 2008 to 2009, according to U.S. census estimates.

"It isn't a good sign for any area to be losing population," said Florida economist Hank Fishkind. "It erodes the demand for all goods and services."

Others say losing population isn't all bad, if it's managed well. Mayor Bill Foster said the city's population has long held steady between 240,000 to 250,000 residents, so he's not too worried.

"I don't think St. Pete has ever been of a mind-set that bigger is better," Foster said.

In fact, estimates show that St. Petersburg shrank by 1.8 percent this past decade, going from 249,000 residents to about 244,000. Clearwater suffered a sharper decline of 3.2 percent from 2000 to 2009. That's a loss of 3,400 residents out of a city of 109,000. But Clearwater also rebounded with 0.3 percent growth in 2009.

The census estimates aren't based on 2010 data, which is still being collected. It's based on the 2000 census updated with new boundaries, building permits and birth, death and migration records.

Experts say a shrinking St. Petersburg is the result of several dominoes falling onto the city at once:

• St. Petersburg has long chafed at its reputation as a retirement destination. But those seem like the good old days now.

Aging northerners can't afford to retire and can't sell their properties in this economy, so they can't come to Florida. But the competition for those who can afford to retire and move is fierce.

Arizona, North Carolina and Texas are all battling Florida to land the next generation of retirees: baby boomers.

"Boomers interested in relocating have other options to consider," said Florida AARP director Lori Parham in an e-mail. "We can't continue to sell warm weather and cheap land alone. We need to find new opportunities to spur growth and embrace them."

• Like the rest of Florida, the city may be losing people because there are no jobs to keep them here.

In May the state's unemployment rate was 11.7 — the same rate in the Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater area, according to the Florida Agency for Workforce Innovation.

St. Petersburg real estate broker Helen Torres said buyers are comparing Florida to better economies in Tennessee and Texas.

"They've got better jobs," she said. "They have to go where their bread is buttered."

• Cities like St. Petersburg are struggling in part because they can't find new residents to replace the old ones, said demographer Mark Mather with the Population Reference Bureau.

"It has a relatively old population and not a lot of new births compared to some cities," Mather said, "and there's just not a lot of migrants moving in to replace them."

One way to reverse that trend comes with way too much political baggage: increased immigration. "If you want your population to grow," he said, "immigration is a good way to do it."

• The foreclosure and housing crises also hit the city hard, according to Justin Hollander, an assistant professor for urban planning at Tufts University. He said 13 of the city's 16 ZIP codes lost residents from 2006 to 2009. But it's the same throughout the Sun Belt.

"Wide swaths of the Sun Belt are used to just growing all the time," he said. "But a large number of these places are just shrinking."

But Foster said the city's greatest limitation is natural: It's on a peninsula that's pretty much built out. But he said St. Petersburg doesn't need to rely on development like other Florida cities.

Instead, the mayor said he's focused on bringing in medical, banking and finance jobs to the city.

"I would measure the economic sustainability of a city by quality jobs paying living wages," Foster said.

And not all growth is good, said Hollander, if it means more demands on the environment, on resources, on government.

"There's no reason why we have to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger," he said. "My advice: Just go with it. Manage that change, get smaller, but get better."

Times researcher Shirl Kennedy contributed to this report. Jamal Thalji can be reached at thalji@sptimes.com or (727) 893-8472 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting**************(727) 893-8472******end_of_the_skype_highlighting.



.Fast facts

U.S. census estimated population change

Cities 2009
population Loss Percent change
1. Flint, Mich. 111,475 1,382 - 1.2
2. Hampton, Va. 144,236 1,020 - 0.7
3. Cleveland, Ohio 431,363 2,658 - 0.6
4. Norfolk, Va. 233,333 1,320 - 0.6
5. Dayton, Ohio 153,857 718 - 0.5
6. Cape Coral 154,202 616 - 0.4
7. Buffalo, N.Y. 270,240 980 - 0.4
8. Akron, Ohio 207,216 664 - 0.3
9. South Bend, Ind. 104,215 321 - 0.3
10. Lansing, Mich. 113,810 319 - 0.3
14. St. Petersburg 244,324 429 - 0.2

Source: U.S. Census Bureau
http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth/...o-2009/1104313

Like the rest of Florida, the city may be losing people because there are no jobs to keep them here.

Enough said, low wages and lack of jobs is all Pinellas County.

[DShenise]

I left in 07 and the next move is west to LA.

[Jasonhouse]

Originally Posted by joey7f

I think the 1/2 cent tax ends in 2026. I am not sure they can afford to wait that long.

I was thinking of it more in terms of the crowd that can't imagine why they would EVER go downtown. You may not commute to work but you can commute to games, avoid traffic, parking etc. I am not suggesting that any part of the 1 cent tax should fund a new stadium for the Rays.

--Joey

Putting the Rays stadium in the Central Park area, within easy walking distance of the transit options that will eventually be built there is a major no-brainer... The issue is whether the stadium could be funded without raping Hillsborough taxpayers.

[DShenise]

I kinda like the idea of the old O2 condo site and surrounding parcels.