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Old February 4th, 2009, 02:44 PM   #401
Minato ku
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I prefer Porte Maillot, it will have a connection with the RER C. The RER C is the last connected RER line, it only have connection with the the RER B (Saint Michel Notre Dame in the center) and RER D (Juivisy in southeaster outer suburbs).

Charles de Gaulle Etoile has already the RER A, if people want to go here from the RER E they can change at Haussmann Saint Lazare.
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Old February 5th, 2009, 10:17 AM   #402
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The problem is that the RER C branch to Pontoise is really too slow in Paris. I think a good idea would be to send it to Saint-Lazare from Porte de Clichy, eventually in order to include it in the (very hypothetic) RER F.
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Old February 5th, 2009, 11:02 AM   #403
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It is also the idea of Metropolitan and he want change the western and northern petite ceinture into a new subway line. (Montparnasse Bienvenue - Bir Hakem - Bougainvilliers - Porte Maillot - Pereire - Porte de Clichy - Porte de Saint Ouen - Porte de Clignancourt - Porte de la Chapelle - Evangile - Porte de la Villette - Pantin - Aulnay sous Bois) as I remember.
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Old February 14th, 2009, 10:12 PM   #404
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Neuville-Université

image hosted on flickr

Picture by Enzojz
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Last edited by Minato ku; February 19th, 2009 at 09:30 PM.
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Old February 15th, 2009, 10:08 AM   #405
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Please show some elevated sections of RER
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Old February 19th, 2009, 05:29 PM   #406
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Joinville le Pont

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Old February 19th, 2009, 06:01 PM   #407
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Minato Ku, your previous picture (#332) shows the "Neuville-Université" station.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 12:33 PM   #408
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What's the capacity of your average RER train? I know that RER A carries something like a million people a day.... the double-decker trains must squeeze a lot into them for that to be possible.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 10:25 PM   #409
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Old February 20th, 2009, 11:00 PM   #410
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It depends of the lines:

RER A: MI 84 single-decker 8-car train (~1700 passengers)
MS 61 single-decker 9-car train (~1900 passengers)
MI 2N double-decker 10-car trains (~2600 passengers)

RER B: MI 79 single-decker 8-car train (~1700 passengers)

RER C: Z 20500 / Z 20900 double-decker 8-car trains (~2100 passengers)

RER D: Z 20500 double-decker 10-car trains (~2600 passengers)

RER E: Z 22500 double-decker 10-car trains (~2600/2700 passengers)
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Old February 20th, 2009, 11:26 PM   #411
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The MI84 have a greater capacity than the MI79 as these have less seat.

Anyway the capacity of a line is not only the capacity of train but also the frequencies.
The line C and D have a lower capacity than the RER B.

I think that the capacity of the RER A could be a way better with MS61 train with longitudinal seats than with a double decker MI2N.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 01:34 AM   #412
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MI84 indeed have few more room for standing than its predecessor MI79, but when the carriage is packed full that makes petty difference, however it's particularly useful because this configuration without the seats next to the doors allows passengers to get on/off more quickly.

As you mentioned, frequency is essential. Typical RER A service during peak hour is 30 trains heading westbound (about one-third being double-deckers) so a capacity of 60 000 passengers headway. Just an example, but to increase the capacity of the line the RATP is thinking about ordering 30 new double-decker trains.

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Old February 21st, 2009, 04:59 AM   #413
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If they had 10 car longitudinal seating and was fully walkthrough they could increase the frequencies as the simpler layout of the seats will make the throughfare of passengers quicker and therefore decrease dwell time.

I hope when Crossrail in London is built the seats are longitudinal... But I fear they we'll copy the Parisians.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 10:45 AM   #414
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I thought that generally people were moving away from double-decker trains because of the slow loading and unloading compared with single-deck metro-style trains (Sydney for example). I guess for the RER metro-style trains where most people stand wouldn't necessarily be that suitable as some of the trips are pretty long.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 11:34 AM   #415
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Trips in Sydney can be stupidly long as well, though the idea is that greater frequencies are better than bigger trains when it comes to dealing with huge numbers of passengers.

But of course I have no doubt that you already know that Jarbury

I'm tired of double decker trains. They're a pain to use and they encourage people to 'hover' around the mid-level door areas.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 11:40 AM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarbury View Post
I thought that generally people were moving away from double-decker trains because of the slow loading and unloading compared with single-deck metro-style trains (Sydney for example). I guess for the RER metro-style trains where most people stand wouldn't necessarily be that suitable as some of the trips are pretty long.
Don't forget that the RER A stock has an extra door compared to Sydney with three doors per carriage. This alters passenger movement a lot.

I have to say though, I'm not a fan of double decker trains on anything more than regional rail with infrequent stops, but I do admit they seem to work okay in Paris.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 03:39 PM   #417
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I don't think they work OK. Not if you consider the frequencies...

In a video posted at rush hour not long back, the doors were open for over 40 seconds... You can't really have that if you want an efficient service.
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Old February 22nd, 2009, 02:42 AM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
I don't think they work OK. Not if you consider the frequencies...

In a video posted at rush hour not long back, the doors were open for over 40 seconds... You can't really have that if you want an efficient service.
Not all trains are double-deckers on the RER A. And I've never noticed a big difference in loading time between double-decker trains and other trains.

If loading time is long, it's mainly because there are too many people getting in and getting out at each station. At Châtelet-les-Halles, the last one to get in generally have to push the crowd and contract their stomach at the closing of doors.
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Old February 22nd, 2009, 04:41 PM   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
Not all trains are double-deckers on the RER A. And I've never noticed a big difference in loading time between double-decker trains and other trains.

If loading time is long, it's mainly because there are too many people getting in and getting out at each station. At Châtelet-les-Halles, the last one to get in generally have to push the crowd and contract their stomach at the closing of doors.
Other cities with crush loads manage to keep dwell times low. Mostly, because they have trains that are catered to crush loads.

The RER basically uses commuter trains to cater for the capacity of a large scale metro...

Personally, I think it's a typical French thing, they see transverse seating as "their thing", just like side platforms and feel the need to keep it no matter how stupid or illogical it is. Correct me if i'm wrong.
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Old February 22nd, 2009, 04:49 PM   #420
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Maybe but Lyon the second city of France use longitudinal seat in the new interior of train.

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