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Old July 19th, 2009, 04:51 PM   #461
Substructure
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Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
I don't understand what people here mean by "side platform". Aren't platforms always on the side? I've never seen a train being unloaded by the roof or by the floor so far. Lol.
That compares with Island platforms, used about everywhere else but France except on line 14, Gare de Lyon station :



Is it specific to our "gestion de flux" ?
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Old July 19th, 2009, 04:59 PM   #462
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And what's the advantage of an island platform? I fail to see it.

There are by the way several island platforms in the Paris metro, not just on line 14. I prefer them for esthetic reasons, but in terms of logisitics I fail to see the advantage.
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Old July 19th, 2009, 05:18 PM   #463
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Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Island platforms are popular in the modern railway world for several reasons. Besides their lower construction cost, island platforms also allow facilities such as escalators, elevators, shops, toilets and waiting rooms to be shared between both tracks rather than being duplicated or present only on one side.
As commuters make up a large number of railway passengers, this tends to mean that most people are using trains in one direction in the morning and most of them are using trains in the other direction in the evening. With two side platforms, this means that one platform is crowded while the other is deserted. An island platform prevents this as the same large platform is used for trains in both ways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_platform

- Higher utilization efficiency
- Easier to navigate through (only one platform)
- Takes up less space
- Lower construction cost
- Accessibility
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Old July 19th, 2009, 05:21 PM   #464
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Yes, but in Paris people use both directions of the metro lines all the time, it's not one-way commute as in American cities, so both platforms are equally used all the time. Also, having island plaftorms means you need either two tunnels or a larger tunnel between stations, which cancels out the financial benefit of sharing escalators.
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Old July 19th, 2009, 06:36 PM   #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Yes, but in Paris people use both directions of the metro lines all the time, it's not one-way commute as in American cities, so both platforms are equally used all the time. Also, having island plaftorms means you need either two tunnels or a larger tunnel between stations, which cancels out the financial benefit of sharing escalators.
The tunnel also has to be made larger to accommodate the side platforms.
Still, I wish I knew the reason why planners built side platforms on some stations, and island on others. If there is public transport expert among us...
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Old July 19th, 2009, 07:47 PM   #466
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For Gare de Lyon (M14) the answer is easy, there were not enouth space to build side platforms.

A station with side platform like Auber (RER A) allow a higher flow that a station with island platform like Gare de Lyon (RER A) because it offert more escalators or stairs by direction while the island platform the passenger of both directions share the same stair and escalator.

Anyway side platform can be a way more expensive in deep level but as most of Paris metro (I don't speak of the RER) was build on cut and cover the price of construction between island or side platform was the same.
On the oposite London Tube was build deeper, this detail was important.
We clearly see this difference on daily basic while the underground Tube section have island platform, Sub surface and overground part use side platforms.

The RER A was build to be a larger version of Paris metro on deep level, having side platform in the deep level increased a lot the cost of this line.
Funny the only central stations with island platform on the RER A where build on cut and cover (La Defense, Chatelet les Halles and Gare de Lyon).
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Old July 19th, 2009, 11:30 PM   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Substructure View Post
The tunnel also has to be made larger to accommodate the side platforms.
Still, I wish I knew the reason why planners built side platforms on some stations, and island on others. If there is public transport expert among us...
Geography is the main reason, followed by the preference of the engineer at the time.
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Old July 20th, 2009, 08:49 PM   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Substructure View Post
That compares with Island platforms, used about everywhere else but France except on line 14, Gare de Lyon station :
As I see you're from Rhône-Alpes, a good example for island platform is Lyon's métro D @ Bellecour.
And there are other examples of island platforms in Paris itself: M1 @ Esplanade de la Défense, M1 @ Grande Arche de la Défense could be considered an island platform too, and I'm sure there are many others as well...
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Old July 20th, 2009, 09:06 PM   #469
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For la Defense as Gare de Lyon (in Paris), it was a lack of space, the metro in La Defense is build between two motorway tunnels.
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Old July 20th, 2009, 09:59 PM   #470
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I like side platforms only for the reason to take photographs of trains. From a operation perspective, island platforms make more sense then side platforms.
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Old July 27th, 2009, 02:46 AM   #471
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Quote:
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Personally I think it's just a stupid Socialist thing (people facing each other will talk to each other and all that crap; don't forget that transverse seating in the Paris Métro was adopted at the time of the Popular Front in the 1930s). In reality it is extremely incomfortable because you have to ask people to move their knees so you can sit on the two spots next to the window (which is why these seats next to the windows are often empty, even when the metro is crowded, because many people feel too embarassed to "disturb" the people already sitted on the aisle side), and people don't even talk with each other (in fact they try to avoid the eyes of the person sitting in front of them), not to mention that there is not enough space for the knees. To me it reeks of Socialist ideology from policy makers who probably never use public transportation themselves.

I think it's a socialist ideology too. That's why there's no transverse seating in the NYC subway. Public transit is too often seen as a socialist thing in the US. That's one of the reasons that makes NY transit sytem is so austere and inhuman.
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Old July 27th, 2009, 05:47 AM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Personally I think it's just a stupid Socialist thing (people facing each other will talk to each other and all that crap; To me it reeks of Socialist ideology from policy makers who probably never use public transportation themselves.
Oh give it a rest. God forbid people LOOK at each other on a train. Those ******* Commies, always trying to improve society with their crazy ideas of equality and collective responsibility. A TRUE man tells other people to **** OFF.
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Old July 28th, 2009, 05:44 PM   #473
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Oh give it a rest. God forbid people LOOK at each other on a train. Those ******* Commies, always trying to improve society with their crazy ideas of equality and collective responsibility. A TRUE man tells other people to **** OFF.
Goes to show just how far the radical right wing crazies have gone with villifying the concept of socialism. When you equate seating arrangements, and station with ideology, you know there is a problem.

Communism is extreme socialism. You'd be hard-pressed to find someone who wants the government to make shoes for them.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 04:20 PM   #474
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Big news for the SNCF RER (lines C, D and E).
The SNCF could install ATO in these lines. The RER E should be the first line with ATO for the opening of the western extention in 2017.
The train will not be driverless, the driver will be here security (opening and closing doors, pushing a star button...) like in the Victoria or Central line in London and most of Paris metro lines.
It will allow better frequencies and less delay, the main problem of SNCF RER.

Here an acticle in french.

Quote:
La compagnie ferroviaire et RFF ont lancé des études pour automatiser les RER les plus fréquentés (les lignes E, puis C et D) d’ici à dix ans. Le débit de ces lignes proches de la congestion pourrait être doublé.

Des trains automatisés où les conducteurs ne seraient plus là que pour ouvrir et fermer les portes. C’est une des solutions sur lesquelles travaille la SNCF pour soulager ses lignes de RER en Ile-de-France, au bord de la saturation. La compagnie ferroviaire et Réseau Ferré de France (RFF), le propriétaire des rails français, ont en effet annoncé hier le lancement d’études « d’un nouveau système de gestion des circulations des trains », dont les conclusions devraient être rendues à la fin de l’année. En clair, il s’agirait d’équiper les trains de manière que leur circulation soit réalisée et gérée par un système d’aide automatique.

Cette solution a un gros avantage : elle permet d’augmenter le débit sur une ligne en toute sécurité. « Actuellement, nous sommes s u r u n e moyenne d’environ 20 trains par heure. Demain, avec ce système, ce sont près de 40 trains par heure et par sens qui pourraient circuler, soit une rame toutes les 90 secondes », explique Jean-Pierre Farandou, le directeur général en charge de la branche proximités à la SNCF. La vitesse moyenne pourrait également être sensiblement améliorée ; à Paris, il serait possible de monter à 120 km/h, alors qu’on est plus proche des 80 à 100 km/ h actuellement. Le coût d’un tel dispositif ? Sans doute « plusieurs dizaines de millions d’euros », selon le dirigeant, dont une partie devrait être prise en charge par RFF.

La SNCF songe à l’automatisation pour ses lignes les plus denses, particulièrement à Paris intra-muros. « Notre souhait est de pouvoir déployer ce système à l’occasion de l’allongement du RER E vers l’ouest, à l’horizon 2017 », avance Jean Pierre Farandou. Ce projet, prévu dans le cadre du Grand Paris, doit étendre Eole vers la Défense et Mantes-la-Jolie. Mais d’autres lignes de RER (le C et le D) – où aucune voie ne peut logiquement être ajoutée – sont également concernées par le projet, sans doute d’ici à 2020. « Ce sont là où les circulations connaissent les congestions les plus importantes, du fait de tunnels [comme celui entre Gare du Nord et Châtelet, NDLR] qui constituent des goulets d’étranglement » , ajoute le dirigeant. Récemment, la SNCF a ainsi dû faire passer le nombre de RER D passant dans ce tunnel de 12 à 8 toutes les heures, afin de se donner un peu d’air pour l’exploitation et réduire les retards.

Le point noir de la régularité

La régularité est justement le gros point noir du réseau Transilien en Ile-de-France, avec un taux tombé de 90,5 % en 2007 à 88,3 % en 2008. Avec l’automatisation, la SNCF joue sur un levier de long terme, utile tant les trafics sont encore appelés à croître. A moyen terme, la SNCF compte sur ses nouvelles rames Francilien – qui commenceront à circuler à la fin de l’année –, puis sur la rénovation partielle des voies (d’ici à 2014) pour améliorer la situation. Mais pas de miracles immédiats à attendre : l’objectif est de revenir en 2009 à une régularité de 90 % à 91 %, bien en dessous des 93 % à 94 % prévus dans le contrat passé avec la région Ile-de-France.
Source: Les Echos
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Old September 13th, 2009, 02:59 AM   #475
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The Trains on the RER are rather old and dated, no? Several of them have horrible noisy breaks such as the MI 2N. It seems that this should be addressed. Also, are there any plans for replacement trains and new stock?

Last edited by aquablue; September 15th, 2009 at 01:27 AM.
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 01:21 PM   #476
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Val de Fontenay













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Old October 3rd, 2009, 04:27 PM   #477
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In this kind of case, all that comes to mind is: "ugly as f***!"
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 02:04 PM   #478
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I'd like to thank the people at SNCF for going on strike during Tuesday when I needed to catch RER B to CDG-Airport. Thankfully there was a limited service operating, but had I not known the suburb the airport is in is called 'Roissy' I would not have found it, most tourists wouldn't

Otherwise the systems seems fairly efficient, but Paris seems to pretend it's suburbs beyond the metro boundary do not exist. I've seen a Lonely Planet guidebook with a map of 'Greater Paris' that doesn't even cover all of the metro length.

I also recommend riding the line A to Boissy St-Leger for any tourists, I had a nice & cheap cherry tart from a bakery near the station there . For some reason the train I got there was a different model to every other one on the line.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 02:27 PM   #479
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Quote:
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I'd like to thank the people at SNCF for going on strike during Tuesday when I needed to catch RER B to CDG-Airport. Thankfully there was a limited service operating, but had I not known the suburb the airport is in is called 'Roissy' I would not have found it, most tourists wouldn't
RER B is operated by two compaginies, RATP and SNCF.
The RATP southern part to Gare Nord
The SNCF nothern part from Gare du Nord

When there is strike the part of the two RER B are separated.
The RER B RATP still use the underground platform but the RER B SNCF depart form the overground suburban platform

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Otherwise the systems seems fairly efficient, but Paris seems to pretend it's suburbs beyond the metro boundary do not exist. I've seen a Lonely Planet guidebook with a map of 'Greater Paris' that doesn't even cover all of the metro length.
Yes and no, the city council used to pretend it but it not really anymore the case.
By exemple that's why there is fewer circulation modification because in most cars in the center come from the suburbs that are badly deserved and that velib come in innermost suburbs.
Many people want a Greater Paris, a city that include the center and many of the suburbs.

Anyway never completly trust what you see in tourist guides. I love affirmation Paris is not sprawled city it only cover 105 km².
But usuallly when we speak of sprawl we include the suburbs and with the suburbs, Paris is over 2,000 km².

In my opinion the best english guide about Paris that I read was the Time Out.

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I also recommend riding the line A to Boissy St-Leger for any tourists, I had a nice & cheap cherry tart from a bakery near the station there . For some reason the train I got there was a different model to every other one on the line.
The branchs St Germain and Boissy Saint Leger use the MS61 stock while the Poissy Cergy and Marne La Vallee branchs use the MI84 and Mi2N stocks.
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Old October 25th, 2009, 12:02 PM   #480
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I'd like to thank the people at SNCF for going on strike during Tuesday when I needed to catch RER B to CDG-Airport.
Strikes are a big problem, I agree. The irony of this is, it's not because the trade unions are strong, but on the contrary because they're so ****ing weak. SNCF has about 7 unions, and each of them organise only a few percent of the staff. In a country like Germany or Sweden a strong central union would sit down with the employeers and drive a hard bargain. In Paris, they go on strike 10 times per year "Pour Se Faire Entendre".

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Thankfully there was a limited service operating, but had I not known the suburb the airport is in is called 'Roissy' I would not have found it, most tourists wouldn't.
Come on, you're just criticising anything you can find to criticise! If you'd been to Copenhagen you'd complain that nobody told you the airport is in Kastrup. In the Netherlands, how could anybody expect visiting Aussies to know the airport is called Schiphol...? There are some of us who know that Logan Airport is in Boston, and O'hare is in Chicago... before going abroad.

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Otherwise the systems seems fairly efficient, but Paris seems to pretend it's suburbs beyond the metro boundary do not exist. I've seen a Lonely Planet guidebook with a map of 'Greater Paris' that doesn't even cover all of the metro length.
This is about to change: the new(ish) president has grand plans for knitting, so far northwestern and northern, suburbs into the urban fabric. Over the next decade apparently we'll see a new driverless metro, a coupld of metro prolongations and 3 tramway lines to further this objective. - Together with a great deal of urban redevelopment in Saint Denis (this has started already) and a significant expansion of the business district La Defense.
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