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Old February 12th, 2010, 06:50 PM   #521
Abhishek901
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Thanks K and firefly for the info
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Old February 12th, 2010, 07:19 PM   #522
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Thanks K and firefly for the info
One last interesting bit: Switzerland is multilingual. What they call "S-Bahn" in the German speaking part they call "RER" in the French speaking part. That's not a coincidence...
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Old February 13th, 2010, 04:08 PM   #523
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Paris was actually quite late in offering convenient access from the suburbs to the city centre. In Paris the metro was build with the express purpose to discourage people to move out of the city. That is why very few lines go beyond the périphérique.
This is historical revisionism K.

Paris metro was build with the express purpose to move parisians around quickly and efficiently. It was also planed to be a very dense network, the official purpose was to have every part of Paris no further away than 500m from a station. It was also designed to offer a different loading gauge as mainline train, in order to prevent the railway companies to take advantage of the underground network that the city was going to build.

Suburbs expansion plans were part of the original design. But it never was really put in action until the 70s. Two wars and the worldwide economic depression that happened during the first half of the 20th century saw to that. Once car golden age was flushed by the first Oil crisis Paris saw several metro extensions and the construction of the RER system.

The thing is, in Paris, the metro network was build so densely that it's not completely adapted to a higly mobile society and a city that has grown steadily since the end of the 19th century. This is were the RER comes into action, it was created to offer S-bahn like services and to decongest surface stations.
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Old February 13th, 2010, 04:44 PM   #524
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This is historical revisionism K.
Then my sources are revisionist too.

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Paris metro was build with the express purpose to move parisians around quickly and efficiently. It was also planed to be a very dense network, the official purpose was to have every part of Paris no further away than 500m from a station. It was also designed to offer a different loading gauge as mainline train, in order to prevent the railway companies to take advantage of the underground network that the city was going to build.
That's more or less what I said. It was meant to make it possible to get around town, not to get in and out of town. That is quite different from the London underground, which basically did have the explicit aim of making it possible for the railways to penetrate the city beyond their terminals. The London underground started as a network connecting mainline railways. The The Paris Metro was a separate network from the outset, and that does make it quite different.

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Suburbs expansion plans were part of the original design. But it never was really put in action until the 70s.
Actually the first concessions explicitly forbade extending the network beyond the city gates. Many lines still end at "Porte de" something... It's only in the 30ies that extentions to some suburbs were build

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The thing is, in Paris, the metro network was build so densely that it's not completely adapted to a higly mobile society and a city that has grown steadily since the end of the 19th century. This is were the RER comes into action, it was created to offer S-bahn like services and to decongest surface stations.
I don't contest that.
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Old February 13th, 2010, 07:39 PM   #525
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Suburbs expansion plans were part of the original design.
I had once read that Parisians were opposed to expansion of the metro into suburbs as it would have led to better connectivity of the crime infested suburbs with the city which could have increased crime in the city.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 11:02 AM   #526
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I had once read that Parisians were opposed to expansion of the metro into suburbs as it would have led to better connectivity of the crime infested suburbs with the city which could have increased crime in the city.
The Wikipedia article about the Paris Metro mentions this, but only in the Englisch version. The French version only mentions that the original concession did not allow building beyond the city gates.
Ofcourse that's wikipedia. I can't link to my book and magazine collection here, but I remember having read on several occasions that the Paris Metro was build in way explcitily keeping the mainline railways out. This was because it was intended to solve the mobility problems of the inner city, and thus was more build as an underground tramway than a railway.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 01:23 PM   #527
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Everytime I ride the RER I can't help noticing the poor air quality inside the stations, the air is thick and almost brown with particles when you look across the station.
Is there any plan to provide regenerative braking to the RER in the near future ?
It would clean the air while providing electricity to power some other trains.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 04:45 PM   #528
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That's more or less what I said.
Yeah, but you said it in such a special way.

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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
It was meant to make it possible to get around town, not to get in and out of town.
Yes, the in and out of town was let to the normal railway.


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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
That is quite different from the London underground, which basically did have the explicit aim of making it possible for the railways to penetrate the city beyond their terminals. The London underground started as a network connecting mainline railways. The The Paris Metro was a separate network from the outset, and that does make it quite different.
Exactly.

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Actually the first concessions explicitly forbade extending the network beyond the city gates. Many lines still end at "Porte de" something... It's only in the 30ies that extentions to some suburbs were build.
Never heard of that, but you are right, it's written in the Wiki.

You might also see that the first round of concecions were build where the demand was higher. It's not until the Paris network was more or less extensive that it was decided to expand outwards. As a matter of fact, I don't think the inner suburbs were much populated when the first plans were drafted. If you look at the datas of city like Vincennes, population increases by 50% 1901 and 1930. It make suburb expansion all the more necessary.

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I had once read that Parisians were opposed to expansion of the metro into suburbs as it would have led to better connectivity of the crime infested suburbs with the city which could have increased crime in the city.
I'm pretty sure that's untrue. I'm pretty sure some Parisians and even suburbaners think like that but they are not a majority. The problematic suburbs house more people than just criminals. The general idea is even to offer a better connection to those social projects so people can go out as easily as anyone and don't feel secluded or segregated from the rest of the population.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 11:30 PM   #529
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Chelles - Gournay
This is the last stop of the Chessy branch of the RER E (E2)


Picture by Marianna



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Old March 31st, 2010, 12:19 AM   #530
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Old March 31st, 2010, 03:17 AM   #531
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I love those huge deep level stations. I really hope Crossrail stations will end up like those but I somehow doubt it...
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Old April 5th, 2010, 08:25 PM   #532
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Paris man dies after being pushed off subway

The 52-year-old was attacked by a traveller standing behind him and was hit by the train as it rolled into the Gare de Lyon station.

PARIS, April 2, 2010 (AFP) - An attacker on Friday kicked a French commuter into the path of a Paris subway train which killed him, the third such incident in less than a year, officials said.
The 52-year-old was attacked by a traveller standing behind him and was hit by the train as it rolled into the Gare de Lyon station in the early morning rush hour, an official close to the investigation said.
The train pushed the man back onto the platform. He suffered severe head injuries and though rescuers raced to the scene the man died 15 minutes later.
French police are hunting for the assailant, who fled the scene.

On January 29, a 40-year-old mentally ill man grabbed a young traveller by the waist and threw himself on the tracks at the Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand station. The two men were killed by a train.
Last April, a homeless person pushed a commuter off the platform at the busy La Defense station, causing serious injuries. Police tracked down the attacker after viewing footage from video surveillance cameras.
Paris metro operator RATP moved this year to install glass panels along the platform of some metro lines to improve safety.
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Old April 5th, 2010, 09:53 PM   #533
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Quote:
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Everytime I ride the RER I can't help noticing the poor air quality inside the stations, the air is thick and almost brown with particles when you look across thein station.
Is there any plan to provide regenerative braking to the RER in the near future ?
It would clean the air while providing electricity to power some other trains.
Not only is the air very thick inside the RER stations (you can almost chew on it like food) but I have a bit of clausterphobia. I can't ride the RER A and RER B lines when they are too full like during rush hour and when passing through Paris-city. I start to breathe hard and panic and I frighten the people near me. The RER C and D lines are not as crowded but they take too long.

The two times I visited Berlin I was so happy to see that the S-Bahn were rarely packed with people, at least when I got on. Also, I remember the Berlin S-Bahn not being fully underground (stations and tunnels) except once, I think...I guess I'm not sure.
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Old April 6th, 2010, 03:31 AM   #534
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Agreed the air was heavy throughout the system. Most uncomfortable in the central areas.
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Old April 6th, 2010, 07:12 AM   #535
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Why there is a problem of air quality when all the trains are electric ?
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Old April 6th, 2010, 10:25 AM   #536
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Why there is a problem of air quality when all the trains are electric ?
Probably because they are very deep underground and have a LOT of people riding them. Ie not much fresh air. Personally I have never had a major issue, but there us certainly a unique smell when you get down on the platform of some of the deep RER stations.
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Old April 6th, 2010, 09:59 PM   #537
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We can also include the humidity, seepage, often a lack of proper cleaning.
Most the central RER stations need a renovation.

The Central Paris RER E stations don't have this problem of air quality.
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Old April 6th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #538
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They are the newer ones
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Old April 7th, 2010, 08:23 AM   #539
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^ I think he knew that.

Regardless, I love seeing these expansion plans of a still growing system.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 03:12 PM   #540
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Why there is a problem of air quality when all the trains are electric ?
There is also a reaction between oxygen and electricity, which produces ozone, you can easily smell it.
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