PARIS | RER & Suburban Rail

[HARTride 2012]

Originally Posted by Minato ku

A model of Bibliothèque François Mitterrand station

Very neat & detailed model, all the way down the M14.

[_Night City Dream_]

Minato Ku, you as a local, can you make me understand all the mix of means of transport in Paris region? I was in Paris in July and had the opportunity to come to la Defense. I also took a tram there. I was really impressed that you have metro, tram, RER and trains de banlieue there. What is the difference between ReR and these trains? And I guess you also have regular trains that are also different.

[Hugues75]

In fact, RER are "just" trains who run through the region, with special infrastructures in the very center of Paris.

Look at RER D : it uses the same tracks after Gare du Nord and Gare de Lyon than the "trains de banlieue", but it has special tracks betwwen Gare du Nord & Gare de Lyon (in fact, the tunnel between Châtelet-Les Halles & Gare du Nord is shared with RER B).

Sometimes, RER have specific tracks outside Paris : it's case of RER A, except the branche of Poissy & Cergy ; all other line is on dedicated tracks, not shared with another trains.

[Minato ku]

Not completly true, the RER D in its northern part has its own tracks (where only the RER D run) even if it is not as segregated with the rest of the railway network as in the RATP RER.

Saint-Denis

The RER D only use this island platform where I am standing (the double decker blue train is not part of the RER D, it comes from surface suburban platforms of Gare du Nord)

Two RER D trains (left going to the north and right going to the south).


The map of Saint Denis station of Carto metro.

Carto metro

[Hugues75]

Originally Posted by Minato ku

Not completly true, the RER D in its northern part has its own tracks (where only the RER D run) even if it is not as segregated with the rest of the railway network as in the RATP RER.

You understood what I meant.

[Minato ku]

Cité Universitaire

[Minato ku]

MI09 in test




Acording a forumer working in the RATP, its first commercial service will be on November 29.

[HARTride 2012]

Awesome!

2011 is so filled with many milestones when it comes to rolling stock. We see the MI 09 on the RER A, the refurbished MI 79 on the RER B, and on the Metro, the MP 89CC on Line 4, MF 01 on Line 5, and MP 05 on Line 1!

[Minato ku]

It is not going well for the refurbished MI79, the RATP found asbestos dust in some of them.
Most refurbished MI79 are not running for safety.

All the train produced before the 1990's have asbestos but it is confined in inaccessible part of the train, so it is not dangerous.
Unfortunately the refurbishment have left some asbestos dust.

[HARTride 2012]

Oh no! :/

[trainrover]

clickable...

Too bad long-range images of its (MI 09) interior not be currently available ...

[Busfotodotnl]

Two questions: how many trains of these MI09 are ordered and why do they refurbish the MI84 stock when these will be replaced by MI09 stock?

[Minato ku]

130 MI09 EMU, it means 65 trains in commercial service.

Except maybe the few one of the RER B, they don't refurbish the MI84.
While the MI79 and MI84 have the same design, the MI84 is a cheaper version, built with less expensive materials.
So despite being newer, the MI84 stock is in worse state than the MI79.

[Hugues75]

Another problem : the length of MI84 is 208m only, platforms of RER A are 225m (length of all others trains - MS61, MI2N and MI09 - is 225m). So ~8% of capacity is lost, while RER A is overcrowed during rush hours.

[Minato ku]

Villeneuve-Saint-Georges

We see an express service passing the station

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by Hugues75

RER A is overcrowed during rush hours.

In my opinion, a new underground RER line is needed through Paris, taking over one of the branches of the RER A east of Vincennes and one of the RER A branches west of Nanterre.

[Minato ku]

I don't believe we will see any new RER extension except the western RER E to Mantes la Jolie via La Defense.
It will relieve a part of the overcrowding of the RER A or at least it absorbing the growth of the traffic.

What we need is a new tunnel between Chatelet and Gare du Nord for the RER D.
This will allow better frequencies for the RER B and D.

The RER C and D should loose some branches to be more managable, the traffic of these branches should be given to the surface platforms of Gare d'Austerlitz and Gare de Lyon.

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by Minato ku

I don't believe we will see any new RER extension except the western RER E to Mantes la Jolie via La Defense.
It will relieve a part of the overcrowding of the RER A or at least it absorbing the growth of the traffic.

Obviously, the extension of RER E will be first.

Originally Posted by Minato ku

What we need is a new tunnel between Chatelet and Gare du Nord for the RER D.
This will allow better frequencies for the RER B and D.

Yes, that is also urgently needed.

Originally Posted by Minato ku

The RER C and D should loose some branches to be more managable, the traffic of these branches should be given to the surface platforms of Gare d'Austerlitz and Gare de Lyon.

I'm all for the first part of this proposal, splitting the branches of RER C and D, but I don't support the second part, giving them to surface stations. In my opinion, they should be connected by new underground RER tunnels to form new RER lines.

The current RER network within Paris city limits is useful for quickly getting from one part of the city to another, but this usefulness is severely limited by the lack of coverage. Most of the time, when I need to make a 30-minute plus trip inside Paris, I must do so entirely with the Metro, usually via a long a circuitous route. Adding several new RER would allow a lot more trips to involve, for example, one RER line and one Metro line. It would relieve congestion on both the RER and Metro networks, as well as get people to their destinations faster.

[Minato ku]

To much expensive to build new RER tunnel under inner Paris.
It would be more usefull to spend this money for metro extension in suburbs.

The urgence is not the coverage of the inner city wich is already very good, it is the coverage of the suburbs.
Creating new RER tunnels in central Paris would not create any new routes in suburbs and would be very expensive.

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by Minato ku

To much expensive to build new RER tunnel under inner Paris.
It would be more usefull to spend this money for metro extension in suburbs.

I'm not so sure. It's takes far too long to travel any distance within Paris. Extension of Metro lines is important too, both within Paris and into the suburbs.

Originally Posted by Minato ku

The urgence is not the coverage of the inner city wich is already very good, it is the coverage of the suburbs.

In my opinion, Metro station coverage in Paris is good, but not quite "very good." If coverage in Paris were "very good," there wouldn't be 58 daytime bus lines serving the city of Paris. In my opinion, the number of Metro stations inside the city needs to be increased to whatever level is needed for all the daytime bus routes in the city to be eliminated. Inside the city, there should be night buses only, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Minato ku

Creating new RER tunnels in central Paris would not create any new routes in suburbs and would be very expensive.

Yes, it would be expensive but it would provide a lot of benefit, both in reducing travel times and reducing congestion.