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Old November 20th, 2011, 09:49 PM   #941
Minato ku
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It is not going well for the refurbished MI79, the RATP found asbestos dust in some of them.
Most refurbished MI79 are not running for safety.

All the train produced before the 1990's have asbestos but it is confined in inaccessible part of the train, so it is not dangerous.
Unfortunately the refurbishment have left some asbestos dust.
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Old November 21st, 2011, 02:29 AM   #942
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Oh no! :/
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Old November 21st, 2011, 06:28 PM   #943
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clickable...


Too bad long-range images of its (MI 09) interior not be currently available ...
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Old November 21st, 2011, 09:01 PM   #944
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Two questions: how many trains of these MI09 are ordered and why do they refurbish the MI84 stock when these will be replaced by MI09 stock?
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Old November 21st, 2011, 09:32 PM   #945
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130 MI09 EMU, it means 65 trains in commercial service.

Except maybe the few one of the RER B, they don't refurbish the MI84.
While the MI79 and MI84 have the same design, the MI84 is a cheaper version, built with less expensive materials.
So despite being newer, the MI84 stock is in worse state than the MI79.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 05:45 PM   #946
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Another problem : the length of MI84 is 208m only, platforms of RER A are 225m (length of all others trains - MS61, MI2N and MI09 - is 225m). So ~8% of capacity is lost, while RER A is overcrowed during rush hours.
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Old November 25th, 2011, 12:00 AM   #947
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Villeneuve-Saint-Georges

We see an express service passing the station


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Old November 25th, 2011, 12:46 AM   #948
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Quote:
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RER A is overcrowed during rush hours.
In my opinion, a new underground RER line is needed through Paris, taking over one of the branches of the RER A east of Vincennes and one of the RER A branches west of Nanterre.
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Old November 25th, 2011, 01:55 AM   #949
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I don't believe we will see any new RER extension except the western RER E to Mantes la Jolie via La Defense.
It will relieve a part of the overcrowding of the RER A or at least it absorbing the growth of the traffic.

What we need is a new tunnel between Chatelet and Gare du Nord for the RER D.
This will allow better frequencies for the RER B and D.

The RER C and D should loose some branches to be more managable, the traffic of these branches should be given to the surface platforms of Gare d'Austerlitz and Gare de Lyon.
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Old November 25th, 2011, 09:19 AM   #950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
I don't believe we will see any new RER extension except the western RER E to Mantes la Jolie via La Defense.
It will relieve a part of the overcrowding of the RER A or at least it absorbing the growth of the traffic.
Obviously, the extension of RER E will be first.

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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
What we need is a new tunnel between Chatelet and Gare du Nord for the RER D.
This will allow better frequencies for the RER B and D.
Yes, that is also urgently needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
The RER C and D should loose some branches to be more managable, the traffic of these branches should be given to the surface platforms of Gare d'Austerlitz and Gare de Lyon.
I'm all for the first part of this proposal, splitting the branches of RER C and D, but I don't support the second part, giving them to surface stations. In my opinion, they should be connected by new underground RER tunnels to form new RER lines.

The current RER network within Paris city limits is useful for quickly getting from one part of the city to another, but this usefulness is severely limited by the lack of coverage. Most of the time, when I need to make a 30-minute plus trip inside Paris, I must do so entirely with the Metro, usually via a long a circuitous route. Adding several new RER would allow a lot more trips to involve, for example, one RER line and one Metro line. It would relieve congestion on both the RER and Metro networks, as well as get people to their destinations faster.
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Old November 25th, 2011, 03:57 PM   #951
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To much expensive to build new RER tunnel under inner Paris.
It would be more usefull to spend this money for metro extension in suburbs.

The urgence is not the coverage of the inner city wich is already very good, it is the coverage of the suburbs.
Creating new RER tunnels in central Paris would not create any new routes in suburbs and would be very expensive.
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Old November 25th, 2011, 05:05 PM   #952
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To much expensive to build new RER tunnel under inner Paris.
It would be more usefull to spend this money for metro extension in suburbs.
I'm not so sure. It's takes far too long to travel any distance within Paris. Extension of Metro lines is important too, both within Paris and into the suburbs.

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The urgence is not the coverage of the inner city wich is already very good, it is the coverage of the suburbs.
In my opinion, Metro station coverage in Paris is good, but not quite "very good." If coverage in Paris were "very good," there wouldn't be 58 daytime bus lines serving the city of Paris. In my opinion, the number of Metro stations inside the city needs to be increased to whatever level is needed for all the daytime bus routes in the city to be eliminated. Inside the city, there should be night buses only, in my opinion.

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Creating new RER tunnels in central Paris would not create any new routes in suburbs and would be very expensive.
Yes, it would be expensive but it would provide a lot of benefit, both in reducing travel times and reducing congestion.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 11:29 AM   #953
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I see a lot of complaining about overcrowding on RER A. without being a citizen in Paris I don't know what you mean with "overcrowding".
Can someone please explain how overcrowded RER A is and what consequences it has for the service and passangers?
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Old November 27th, 2011, 11:45 AM   #954
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I see a lot of complaining about overcrowding on RER A. without being a citizen in Paris I don't know what you mean with "overcrowding".
Can someone please explain how overcrowded RER A is and what consequences it has for the service and passangers?
I've seen cases of people not being able to board because trains are already too full. In my opinion, that's an unambiguous indicator that more east-west RER capacity is needed inside the Périphérique.

In theory, there are several ways to increase capacity:
1) Increase frequencies. This has already been done. The RER A's operating frequency is already as high as current (centralized) signaling technology paradigm allows. Fully decentralized signaling has been researched in universities and shows promise, but is not under commercial development.
2) Switch from single-decker to double-decker trains. Already done.
3) Switch from transverse to longitudinal seating. This would reduce the number of seats but increase overall passenger capacity by providing more standing room. This is the only short-term option available and is not terribly expensive. Once this is done, there are no cheap or easy solutions.
4) Use longer trains. This would require extending the platform at every station on the line, including all the branches in the suburbs. This would be extremely expensive and rather silly because the branches are not overcrowded.
5) Lay another pair of tracks through Paris. There are two sub-options, with similar costs but different benefits. 5b would be somewhat more expensive than 5a because more station work would need to be done, but either would be very expensive.
5a) Drill two more tunnels along the current route, making it a four-track line through Paris. Advantages: 24-hour operations would be possible along the central common part of the route, but not out along the branches, which would remain two-track. Reliability would be improved because trains could pass around a blockage (at a loss of frequency).
5b) Drill two new tunnels along a different route through Paris, assigning some of the RER A branches to the new line and retaining other as part of RER A, effectively splitting the line into two different lines (probably with an interchange where the branches now split). Advantages: Provides more direct access to many parts of Paris for RER A commuters. Provides faster options for getting around inside Paris. Relieves congestion on the Metro as well as RER A.

In my opinion, option 4 should be pursued in the short term, but it will increase capacity only 10-20%. In my opinion, option 5b should be pursued in the medium term.

The orbital part of the Métro Grand Paris will alleviate some of the congestion on all the RER lines inside the future orbital, but I'm not expecting that to be a dramatic effect.

Last edited by mcarling; November 27th, 2011 at 06:29 PM.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 04:37 PM   #955
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In my opinion, overcrowded public transportation has different kind of consequences.

Last edited by KOOL_URB; November 27th, 2011 at 05:40 PM.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 05:34 PM   #956
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Quote:
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I see a lot of complaining about overcrowding on RER A. without being a citizen in Paris I don't know what you mean with "overcrowding".
Can someone please explain how overcrowded RER A is and what consequences it has for the service and passangers?
In my opinion, overcrowded public transportation has different kind of consequences.
1- The quality of service.
2- The quality of your trip "experience".

1-There are a lot of studies about the quality of service and it's one of the most discussed subject on PSS.

2-Your own experience as passenger:
- Forget about sitting on a seat, even for old people, handicapped or pregnant women.
- No-one is at ease. Everybody tries to stand up by getting the best places, along the doors or close from the bars. If you travel in a very crowded metro, it's difficult to stay with your friend(s), you're unable to speak during the travel.
- When the doors open, people push each other to step in or out, you hit people, you get hit, get walked on your shoes, get pushed so many times and most on the time, you get insulted because you didn't see the person in your back while you let someone go in front.
- When the temperature is high, it gets pretty humid and smelly... Even in winter when there are about 200 persons in the metro train, there is always someone who wears a strong perfume, or after a whole day of hard working...
- If you carry big luggages, or fragile stuff, good luck...
- No separtion with the different flows, hurry and tired people make each other nervous...

Do not forget that the loss of quality service gets you angrier… you wait longer for a delayed train, so it gets even more crowded, and you arrive late…

- With these constraints, every single day, on your way to your job, on the way back, when you go to the theatre, when you come back, even at midnight on a week day, in Paris the peak hour is from 8 AM to midnight, people are used to look thoroughly depressed, and you are one of them...
- If you can avoid the overcrowded public transportation for your everyday trip, you’re lucky.

- The latest improvements are appreciable. The new trains are more comfortable, with A/C, the automation of line 1 and the real ambitious Grand Paris Express plan makes me feel that the individual commuter complaints are finally heard… Before these latest improvements, the situation was getting worse and worse and the administrations and politics responses were insulting for the millions everyday commuters. Special stickers on the windows with messages : “If you step in after the tone, you’re responsible of the delay”! The solution to increase “the quality of service”, “educate” the dumb and un-adapted user.

To sum up :
- Overcrowded transportation is pretty exhausting, especially if you use it every day (most of the 2 millions commuters use it 2x45min/day). 1 hour and a half of nightmare (or uncomfortable situation) every day is pretty unbearable (= 7h30 every week).
- The authorities can’t ignore this problem; the responses have to be adapted. The overcrowded transportation in Paris is a true public debate, not a fate. The chronic under-investment directly harm the quality of life of million peple. The public transportation is a public service, commuters can’t be customers. The local government and the STIF have to develop real transportation politicies.

Last edited by KOOL_URB; November 27th, 2011 at 05:43 PM.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 04:28 PM   #957
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the real ambitious Grand Paris Express plan makes me feel that the individual commuter complaints are finally heard…
Can you please elaborate more on this?
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Old November 29th, 2011, 04:44 AM   #958
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Can you please elaborate more on this?
This might help:

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2...w-metro-lines/
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Old November 29th, 2011, 02:47 PM   #959
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"Hope, keeps you alive"

Quote:
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the real ambitious Grand Paris Express plan makes me feel that the individual commuter complaints are finally heard…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
Can you please elaborate more on this?
In my opinion, Grand Paris Express is an historical project because it enlarges a lot the network, but it should not be separated from the "urgent plan" for the improvement of the actual network.
The fact that the debate on public transportation policies end up with such a huge project, aiming the improvement of inter-suburbs links, make commuters think that they've been heard.

To sum up (again), the public transportation problems in Paris-Region is now a "capital debate", and the commuters hope it's gonna improve their everyday trip.

A french adage "Hope, keeps you alive"...
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Old November 29th, 2011, 04:41 PM   #960
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I have some questions regarding this plan. Which lines of this plan will be a part of the Metro and which will be a part of RER. Blue line (Line 14) seems to a part of Metro for obvious reasons. What about others, esp the green line which is a Light Rail line?
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