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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #1421
VincentB_
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Back from Paris...

Castle of Saint Germain en Laye (end of a 6 hours hike between Maisons- Laffitte and St Germain) :

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For those who think that such a picture has nothing to do here... they're wrong . If fact, we are standing just above the RER A station.

When the Line from Paris to Saint Germain was built in the 19th century, a part of the gardens of the castle were destroyed. When the line was modernized and incorporated in the RER, the trench was covered and the gardens were restored to their original state.

The entry of the (now underground) station is on our right :
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On the left, the beginning of the tunnel :
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The station itself :
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One of the main characteristics of St Germain is that it's located on top of a hill. In the park, a 2km long promenade was built, which offers a wonderful view to Paris (Paris is on the right) :
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But i think you will be more interested by a view to the bridge of St Germain ! This one was taken from the promenade :
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:00 AM   #1422
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Count that as if it were seven likes. That was too good.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:22 AM   #1423
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Then what did the 1839...1842 original cars of RER C look like?
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:44 AM   #1424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Then what did the 1839...1842 original cars of RER C look like?
You must mean RER A, but RER did not exist in 1839 nor 1842.

Back then it was simply a steam railway line from Saint-Germain-en-Laye to Paris-Saint Lazare via Pont Cardinet, Bécon-les-Bruyères and La Garenne-Colombes.

St-Germain-en-Laye current RER A station and the castle gardens looked like this, back then:


Photo by Gregory Deryckère @ Wikipedia
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Old September 30th, 2013, 10:42 AM   #1425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
You must mean RER A, but RER did not exist in 1839 nor 1842.

Back then it was simply a steam railway line from Saint-Germain-en-Laye to Paris-Saint Lazare via Pont Cardinet, Bécon-les-Bruyères and La Garenne-Colombes.
No. I do mean RER C.
Paris-Le Pecq (19 km) was the first railway of Paris, opened in 1837, and it is RER A.

Regarding RER C, it DID open in 1840, from Barriere du Maine/Gare Montparnasse/Gare de l´Ouest to Viroflay and Versailles-Rive-Gauche.

If you look at the Paris railways 1840-1842, they ALL were suburban rail. St. Lazare-Le Pecq was 19 km, Asnieres-Versailles Rive Droite, the one opened 1839, 18 km, and Barriere du Maine-Versailles-Rive-Gauche 17 km. The first long distance railway lines in Paris were Paris-Rouen and Paris-Orleans, and they opened in 1843.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 10:25 AM   #1426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
No. I do mean RER C.
Paris-Le Pecq (19 km) was the first railway of Paris, opened in 1837, and it is RER A.

Regarding RER C, it DID open in 1840, from Barriere du Maine/Gare Montparnasse/Gare de l´Ouest to Viroflay and Versailles-Rive-Gauche.

If you look at the Paris railways 1840-1842, they ALL were suburban rail. St. Lazare-Le Pecq was 19 km, Asnieres-Versailles Rive Droite, the one opened 1839, 18 km, and Barriere du Maine-Versailles-Rive-Gauche 17 km. The first long distance railway lines in Paris were Paris-Rouen and Paris-Orleans, and they opened in 1843.
Now whilst of course the suburban lines and the stations existed way back, they were just that suburban branch lines not RER. They have more in common with what is now known as Transilien than RER.

What makes the RER the RER are the connecting lines through central Paris, connecting different branches and thus bypassing what were once terminal stations in the city. These connections and the RER as we know it did not exist until the late 1960's.

So whilst Paris-Le Pecq may well have been the first railway of Paris and is NOW part of RER A, it most certainly wasn't RER in 1837 and it is wrong to say RER existed in 1837. What existed were the branches, which have been combined to create the RER.

Last edited by ajw373; October 1st, 2013 at 10:31 AM.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 12:09 PM   #1427
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I don't think that in 1837, the Saint Germain line was used as a commuter train.

This line and what followed next have shaped the current form of Paris.
This lead to a strong growth of the west of Paris and today inner suburbs formerly served by line this are the densest (Levallois, Clichy, Asnières, Courbevoie...)..
The creation of Saint Lazare railway station leads to the development of the actual Paris CBD with the big banks and financial institutions, the big department sores, the threatres, Opera... In the 19th century the ecomomic heart of Paris moved in the west with this station.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 04:53 PM   #1428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajw373 View Post
Now whilst of course the suburban lines and the stations existed way back, they were just that suburban branch lines
There was no trunk line for them to be branches of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajw373 View Post
not RER. They have more in common with what is now known as Transilien than RER.
And the thread topic includes both RER and "suburban rail" - the latter of which includes Transilien, and certainly includes the original lines.
The first Versailles railway (opened 1839) is Transilien L, the second (opened 1840) is RER C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku
I don't think that in 1837, the Saint Germain line was used as a commuter train.
It did not go to Saint Germain. The 3 km extension Le Pecq to Saint Germain was opened only in 1847.

Commuter? Maybe not August-December 1837, if the people were not moving out of Paris with the intent to travel by train daily.

But consider that the average speeds of the Paris-le Pecq railway back in 1837 has been quoted as 38 km/h - 30 minute trip time for 19 km. The train from Versailles certainly had instant speed of over 40 km/h when it crashed.

What were the average speeds of coaches (public stagecoaches or private) on well-paved roads and with horse changes as needed? My impression is 10...12 km/h, and at that speed Paris-le Pecq would have been over 1,5 hours. Compare the 30 minutes by train.

Since it was still under 2 hours for Paris-le Pecq by horse, and even closer for the stations between Paris and le Pecq, like Nanterre, wouldn´t there have been people who already were commuting by horse and who thus already in late August 1837 took advantage of the more convenient travel?

Regarding the decorations: the carriages that crashed in 1842 happened to be newly painted, and caught fire like kindling. So, painted where - inside or outside? What colours, what designs?

Regarding the decoration and comfort of suburban train cars: consider that a train even in 1830s was much faster than a horsedrawn carriage - public or private. It was only sometime in 20th century that the rich could use road cars with infernal combustion engines and thus pay for the flexibility of private car (leaving the poor behind in the cheap trains).

Until 20th century, a public train would have been the fastest way of travel for the rich as well as the poor. And the rich would surely have liked to see some comfort as well as beauty in suburban trains?

Throughout July Monarchy, Empire and Belle Epoque, decoration was beautiful and fashionable. It was only in 1920s or so that the plain "functionalist" design came into fashion.

Therefore I´d expect that even suburban trains built between 1837 and 1914 would have some interior decoration.

What do they look like?
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Old October 1st, 2013, 05:24 PM   #1429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
And the thread topic includes both RER and "suburban rail" - the latter of which includes Transilien, and certainly includes the original lines.
The first Versailles railway (opened 1839) is Transilien L, the second (opened 1840) is RER C.
Right, this is the good thread for this.
Everything about the suburban rail of Paris, including the history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
It did not go to Saint Germain. The 3 km extension Le Pecq to Saint Germain was opened only in 1847.
At this time, trains could not handle the slope, an atmospheric railway was built between Le Pecq and Saint Germain.
This atmospheric railway lasted until 1860.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Regarding the decorations: the carriages that crashed in 1842 happened to be newly painted, and caught fire like kindling. So, painted where - inside or outside? What colours, what designs?

Regarding the decoration and comfort of suburban train cars: consider that a train even in 1830s was much faster than a horsedrawn carriage - public or private. It was only sometime in 20th century that the rich could use road cars with infernal combustion engines and thus pay for the flexibility of private car (leaving the poor behind in the cheap trains).

Until 20th century, a public train would have been the fastest way of travel for the rich as well as the poor. And the rich would surely have liked to see some comfort as well as beauty in suburban trains?

Throughout July Monarchy, Empire and Belle Epoque, decoration was beautiful and fashionable. It was only in 1920s or so that the plain "functionalist" design came into fashion.

Therefore I´d expect that even suburban trains built between 1837 and 1914 would have some interior decoration.

What do they look like?
This link may interest you. It is the first train of the Saint Germain line
http://www.ajecta.org/HTMtr1/JPO2009_germain_1024.htm


http://archives.hauts-de-seine.net/a...880&height=750
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Old October 1st, 2013, 10:50 PM   #1430
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Boulainvilliers (VMI, RER C). The coverage is covered here with grass. We're looking to the south :
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In this picture, we can clearly see the original parts made of stone and the newer ones, made of concrete to support the coverage :
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Old and new nameplates :
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The old ones are beautiful but sadly, we can now hardly read them - it's too dark since the station is now underground. The stone on this wall is very typical from the parisian region : it's called in french "pierre meulière" (sorry i'm afraid i won't be able to translate that...).
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Old October 1st, 2013, 11:50 PM   #1431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post

This link may interest you. It is the first train of the Saint Germain line
http://www.ajecta.org/HTMtr1/JPO2009_germain_1024.htm

http://archives.hauts-de-seine.net/a...880&height=750
Thanks!
It seems that the first and second class enclosed carriages consisted of multiple compartments, with separate doors and not connected by any aisle.
The first class interior picture at least has cushier upholstery than the RER C seats, though the poor lighting and field of view do not allow to verify presence or absence of decorations.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 01:19 AM   #1432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
And the thread topic includes both RER and "suburban rail" - the latter of which includes Transilien, and certainly includes the original lines.
That it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The first Versailles railway (opened 1839) is Transilien L, the second (opened 1840) is RER C.
You just don't get it. Whilst the lines you mention may well now be part of the RER, it is very much incorrect to say that line xyz as it was 160 years ago is RER X. Those line make up part of the RER as we know it today, but what makes RER are the lines that were built starting in the 1960's that go under central Paris. Now that is the RER.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 09:59 PM   #1433
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Asniere-sur-Seine




Asnières bridge over the Seine river is the widest railway bridge in France with 10 tracks.






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Old October 3rd, 2013, 05:44 PM   #1434
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Z20900 at Neuilly Porte Maillot
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Old October 8th, 2013, 10:26 PM   #1435
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Garges - Sarcelles
With the arrival of the T5, the front of the station and the bus station is being redeveloped.

A northbound RER D train leaving the station

A southbound RER D train arriving
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Old October 12th, 2013, 07:57 PM   #1436
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Time lapse of Gare du Nord train traffic.

The traffic is dominated by Z 50000 (H) and MI 79/84 (RER B).
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Old October 12th, 2013, 09:49 PM   #1437
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Paris Metro had two classes until 1990-s.
How about RER?
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Old October 12th, 2013, 10:59 PM   #1438
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The first class was abolished in 1999.
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Old October 12th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #1439
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Wow! that's late for the RER.
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Old October 15th, 2013, 12:19 PM   #1440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Time lapse of Gare du Nord train traffic.

The traffic is dominated by Z 50000 (H) and MI 79/84 (RER B).
another great video from this user....
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