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Old October 10th, 2014, 11:16 PM   #201
Svartmetall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnel owl View Post
Are you serious? Of cause Karlsplatz is nice. But Stockholm is a city with the most outstanding underground architecture worldwide, besides Montreal, Moscow and some others.
Of course the stations here look nice for tourists. But the cave stations can be damp, smelly and dark with significant water seepage. This can make them a bit unpleasant for regular commuters (plus the depth of the blue line). Plus that is only the blue line and some of the red line. The rest of the stations are very, very basic and some quite ugly. They talk up the Stockholm tunnelbana too much. I would rather take subways that look clean and functional than pointlessly arty but poorly functioning stations. True, the Stockholm tunnelbana works pretty well, but the design of it is more for aesthetics when it comes to those stations than actual ease of use. For this reason other networks are nicer. Also, when one compares newer stations (like Skarpnäck in the south, the newest station on the network as it opened in the mid 90's), you can see that this quality differs from new stations elsewhere. I'm not saying it's bad at all as most cities would be envious to have this, it's more that when one compares these dark and arty stations to the bright, airy but functional stations in Munich I know which I prefer to use.

Last edited by Svartmetall; October 11th, 2014 at 12:00 AM.
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Old October 11th, 2014, 12:47 AM   #202
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Very nice tour and thanks for sharing your impressions.
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Old October 11th, 2014, 01:11 AM   #203
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Thank you, everyone. There are more pictures to come as well. I'll put them up soon.
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Old October 11th, 2014, 03:02 PM   #204
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Some more public transport impressions in Munich.

Here we are at Hauptbahnhof station on the U4/U5.



Fantastic renovations at Hauptbahnhof.













Outside Hauptbahnhof at the tram stop.





Still more to come as well.
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Old October 11th, 2014, 04:27 PM   #205
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This is a great report on Munich PT. One of my favorite destinations in Europe. Transport in Munich is always a highlight.

I still think they should have built maglev to the airport. Just because they can. And Munich would be one of very few cities in Europe which could afford it.
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Old October 11th, 2014, 08:02 PM   #206
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Well, indeed. Since it is German technology I would have thought they'd have embraced it, but alas.

Still, got the proper maglev to look forward to in Japan! Go Chuo Shinkansen!

Munich PT is definitely the best that I have been on in a city of its size by a long shot. I don't think there are any cities that I can think of at this population size that can support such a large and varied network. On paper, only Vienna appears to have a network that could match it.
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Old October 11th, 2014, 10:14 PM   #207
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Yup. Vienna just popped into my mind before I even read your sentence. Too bad I haven't got much experience there besides the airport S Bahn.
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Old October 12th, 2014, 12:32 AM   #208
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Also Vienna and Munich are often compared they show significant differences. Vienna is more compact than Munich (city population 1.8 vs. 1.5 million). Most people in Munich live suburban (urban area population in Munich 2.8 million is even larger than in Vienna). In terms of inner city traffic this means that Vienna has a denser network than Munich. Where Munich follows a "Stammstreckenkonzept" combining 2 subway lines into one tunnel in the city center in Vienna every line has its own city crossing. Since both cities grow at a rate of more than 1.5 % per year Munich's subway capacity is therefore limited and in the coming years a main aim will be to get rid of this bottle neck effect while Vienna plans a complete new line through the city (U5) Munich needs to split its lines and get more capacity in the center sections (U9 + 2nd suburban cross rail). However because of the more spread and larger population in Munich region the suburban rail way is much more developed than in Vienna. Nevertheless both are maybe the top cities on the planet in the category of a 2.5 million urban population.
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Old October 12th, 2014, 01:14 AM   #209
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That's a good summary, thanks!

I'm more familiar with a Munich-styled network here in Stockholm with two lines (or three in the case of the green line) sharing one central tunnel with each line on a 10 minute frequency off-peak, and 5 minute frequency at peak. Vienna was quite smart to have separate lines akin to most of the worlds networks. There are some significant advantages to bundling though - it means that the denser sections get served more frequently without having to run a dense frequency (or have mid route turnbacks) to less dense areas.

For smaller cities it definitely feels, to me, to be a good compromise to bundle lines like this. For larger cities this becomes a disadvantage.

Looking forward to U9 being built in Munich! I heard that plan is fairly advanced, right?
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Old October 12th, 2014, 03:30 PM   #210
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Quote:
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Most people in Munich live suburban (urban area population in Munich 2.8 million is even larger than in Vienna).
That's not correct. Munich's urban area has a pop of ~2 million. Regarding population, this should be around the same size as Vienna's (the urban area is not much more than city proper + Mödling, Klosterneuburg and Schwechat). But with Erding, Freising, Starnberg, etc Munich's outskirts (definetely not part of the urban area) are of course populated a bit denser than Vienna's. Thus Munich had more reason to develop a rather large suburban S-Bahn network, in contrast to Vienna where there's virtually just the corridor to Wiener Neustadt.

Last edited by Rohne; October 12th, 2014 at 03:36 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2014, 03:32 PM   #211
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For smaller cities it definitely feels, to me, to be a good compromise to bundle lines like this. For larger cities this becomes a disadvantage.
It can be a good compromise like it is done with Copenhaguens M1 and M2, if infrastructure of the branches is not that expensive than the trunk-route, means mainly over ground. This principle works well with Washington DC, Atlanta and should have been for Baltimore. Otherwise it´s often in critic, that the branch has the same costs/km but regarding the trunk-route it´s half of capacity.

Munichs U9 could be really fine to relieve the bottleneck. MVG wants it not to be an express-line but a normal U-Bahn with some more stations in Maxvorstadt which seems quite useful. Basic problem is the unclear situation concerning federal budget in future, not only building new but also maintaining old lines. All german cities with tunnels from the 70s meanwhile have a high demand for refurbishment, left on their own. There has to happen something here. It´s a shame, that a rich Country like Germany has no answer to this still.

Kind regards
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Old October 12th, 2014, 04:10 PM   #212
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When it comes to maintenance, even a rich country like Sweden falls down there too. Whilst it is good compared to some countries, it could very much do with a bigger cash injection. Most stations here have not been renewed despite being 20 years older than the oldest on the Munich network. Look at the renewal plans there and compare them to here.
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Old October 12th, 2014, 09:27 PM   #213
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Karlsplatz - this looks FANTASTIC. There is no other word for it. I wish stations looked this good in Stockholm.
It was completely renovated only last year. By the way, the Stachuspassagen (no-one in Munich refers to the sqare with the official name, it's always called "Stachus" after a ceased beerhall) is one of, if not the, largest underground malls in Europe.
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Old October 12th, 2014, 09:53 PM   #214
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The renovation is impressive. Plus when I look at the plans for further renovations across the city in the hub stations I am impressed - Sendlinger Tor is next, right? I saw the yellow/white colour scheme, it looks good.

Anyway, on with the photos, just to finish off my set of Munich.

Renovated U-bahn concourse at Hauptbahnhof. The MVV customer service centre is really impressive actually.





The U1/U2 platforms at Hauptbahnhof.





Showing the very good next train announcement screens (PID). Really nice!



Interior of the trams.



Details of the PIDs on the tram (tram 12 as you can see heading from Rotkreuzplatz).



My tram leaving.



Tram stop.



Another view of tram interiors.



One of my favourite U-bahn rolling stocks in the world thus far. The Class C rolling stock is just excellent, comfortable and quiet. I cannot wait for the next lot to be rolled out as they look even more impressive.



Karlsplatz Station. I think this is under renovation at present (much like Marienplatz).



That's it. Munich is a city I will be returning to in the near future I hope. It's an awesome place. The food, the beer, miles better than the rubbish you get up here so I hope I'll be able to take more photos of the transport network in the future.
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Old October 12th, 2014, 10:07 PM   #215
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Well you didn't see our great metrostations like tihs:

http://img.galerie.chip.de/imgserver...A599985550.jpg

http://images.*****************/bild...ca56fb1ad5.jpg


http://www.muenchnerubahn.de/bild/gross/df_10.jpg

http://www.muenchnerubahn.de/bild/gross/tr_7.jpg
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Old October 12th, 2014, 10:07 PM   #216
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http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=h...ed=0CEMQrQMwCw
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Old October 12th, 2014, 10:10 PM   #217
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Exactly, I have a lot left to explore. I mean, look at those stations, they're pretty amazing. Simple, clean and functional, but still arty enough to be interesting.

This is a fantastic website by the way - thank you for introducing it to me.

http://www.muenchnerubahn.de/

Last edited by Svartmetall; October 12th, 2014 at 10:17 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2014, 10:16 PM   #218
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Munich's mass transit is something to be envy of, especially those who live in the USA. BTW, Stockholm is so overrated.
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Old October 12th, 2014, 10:18 PM   #219
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Munich's mass transit is something to be envy of, especially those who live in the USA. BTW, Stockholm is so overrated.
Well, I don't think you can say that until you've visited here. It is actually a very, very good system, don't get me wrong. I just think it needs to be better maintained and upgraded more than it is. It is still one of the best public transport systems that I have been on in this population size.
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Old October 12th, 2014, 10:30 PM   #220
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Quote:
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That's not correct. Munich's urban area has a pop of ~2 million. Regarding population, this should be around the same size as Vienna's (the urban area is not much more than city proper + Mödling, Klosterneuburg and Schwechat). But with Erding, Freising, Starnberg, etc Munich's outskirts (definetely not part of the urban area) are of course populated a bit denser than Vienna's. Thus Munich had more reason to develop a rather large suburban S-Bahn network, in contrast to Vienna where there's virtually just the corridor to Wiener Neustadt.
The suburban rail S-Bahn covers the suburban area thus urban population (2.8 million). The 2 million comes from the connected built up area so the definion of an agglomeration.
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