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Old July 20th, 2008, 06:31 PM   #41
Svartmetall
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What, in your opinion, makes it the best network in Europe?
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Old July 20th, 2008, 06:37 PM   #42
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Quote:
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What, in your opinion, makes it the best network in Europe?
Well first of all its very clean, second very fast and third most important theres no such crowd like Moscow metro or Wien U-Bahn.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 12:20 AM   #43
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^

Well, yes it is probably one of world's safest and cleanest systems. Regarding the crowdness factor i would consider U3/U6 stammstrecke or the U2 nord similar crowded compared to vienna U1 or U3. Same goes for the station Marienplatz and Sendlinger Tor what i would call pretty crowded stations in global scales.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 02:42 PM   #44
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One of the most important facts is that it is relatively new (late 60s), therefore the stations have larger dimensions than in older networks (like Vienna or London) which makes them less crowded. Munich Underground is safe, fast and so on, but unfortunately it lacks some tangential connections (also in combination with other transport systems), doesn't run 24 hours and is quite expensive (single fare 2,30€ in the city).
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Old July 21st, 2008, 02:57 PM   #45
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Very few networks run 24 hours. Besides, it only shuts for 3 hours, hardly a terrible service! Single fares are expensive everywhere as they help to subsidise regular commuters.

As far as radial connections between lines goes, I think this is again a problem that a lot of networks suffer from. Stockholm and Prague are again two similar sized cities which have the same problem.

I love the Munich system all the same though. I think it's highly impressive in a city of Munich's size to have such developed transport infrastructure.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 04:45 PM   #46
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I love the Munich system too. ****, I'd marry it if I could.

Munich doesn't know how lucky it is to have it.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 09:53 PM   #47
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Quote:
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One of the most important facts is that it is relatively new (late 60s), therefore the stations have larger dimensions than in older networks (like Vienna or London) which makes them less crowded.
Vienna's subway system (1976) is even younger than Munich one's (1971)! There is only one older line - the U6 - but i would not count Vienna's U6 as a real heavy rail MRT. It is more or less a "Stadtbahn".


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Munich Underground is safe, fast and so on, but unfortunately it lacks some tangential connections (also in combination with other transport systems), doesn't run 24 hours and is quite expensive (single fare 2,30€ in the city).
1) Can you name 10 Systems world wide that have a 24h service?? Munich is laking in service on certain lines at certain times. E.g. U2 Nord from 9:00 to 15:00 has only 10 minute service! That sucks totally!

2) Well, for effective tangenial connections the city must exceed a certain size. Let's say urban area should be around 5 million (see Madrid). Munich has only 2,0 to 2,6 depending on the definition. But even Munich is getting a tangential line: When U3 to 'Moosach' is completed i would name that line up to 'Münchner Freiheit' a tangential.

3) Do not forget that Munich is one of the richest cities worldwide, so 2,30 Euro for crossing the city over let's say 20 km is not much expensive

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Old July 22nd, 2008, 11:20 AM   #48
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Regarding tangential connections:
It would maybe possible to realize one on as S-Bahn on the Nordring and Südring (a rail circle around the city centre) without many difficulties but DB doesn't want to realize it.

Comparision to Vienna: I only know U4, the stations there are small (but 100 years old if I'm right), Karlsplatz is just huge.
Compared to elder systems like Vienna (the old Stadtbahn sections), Berlin, London or Barcelona you can see a big difference in the dimension of the stations, for sure.

And the fares: Compared to cities like Madrid or Barcelona (similar size, better service for the latter) with about 1,20€ single fare Munich IS expensive. Commuter fares (month tickets) aren't cheap either. Students e.g. have to pay full fare and can't ride for free or at least for a reduced fare (like in many other cities), etc. Therefore, I would say the MVV is expensive compared to other cities. Btw.: The argumentation that Munich is rich doesn't work well because after paying rents for its flat, etc. the normal Munich doesn't have more money in his pocket than anyone else.


All I want to say: It is a good system, without doubt, but it isn't perfect at all. If you ride it regularly you are often annoyed about these points.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 03:54 PM   #49
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Pfft, you don't know how lucky you are!

Single fare into the city from suburb: $6.50

If I want to cross the city: $13 (same price as a day ticket)

Non integrated (only one bus company out of four possible bus companies, not valid on trains or ferries) 10 ride ticket for a University student: $40

Monthly fare (ditto to the above - non-integrated): $180 - no university student discount

Discovery pass (only "integrated" ticket in Auckland): $210 a month - no university student discount!

Auckland only has buses, a few ferries most of which are not included in the discovery pass and three train lines (which offers a diesel service every 30 minutes and doesn't serve most of the city).
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 04:34 PM   #50
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Quote:
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Btw.: The argumentation that Munich is rich doesn't work well because after paying rents for its flat, etc. the normal Munich doesn't have more money in his pocket than anyone else.
Refering to purchasing power i do not agree:



But you are right that in general Munich representive tend to state that everything would be so cheap. But there is still no extra fare for students...
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 10:58 AM   #51
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Rents in Munich are just crazy, I have al lot of friends that pay around 400€ for a single room (students), and they even don't live in the centre but in 50 year old buildings. And lots of people don't earn more than elsewhere (e.g. all people working in public service).

Btw., the biggest troublemaker of Munichs public transportation wasn't mentioned yet. Laughably small problems on the S-Bahn Stammstrecke (the tunnel between Hauptbahnhof and Ostbahnhof) normally cause pure chaos that isn't limited to the S-Bahn but also affects regional trains with delays.

I'm aware that Munich has a pretty good system compared to many other cities, for sure. But it is far from being perfect, it has the same problems like many other systems probably do.
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 12:21 PM   #52
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I think that is the case in Frankfurt too. Small delays in the S-bahn tunnel there cause massive knock-on effects.
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 01:46 PM   #53
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I used to get the s-bahn from Aufhausen to Marienplatz twice a day, and there was always a lot of times when the train would stop on the tracks (presumably to let other trains go past). Does that still happen, or has the issue been rectified?
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 02:03 PM   #54
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Maybe it's not the best in the world, or even in Europe, but it is definately one of the best systems I've seen and tried!

I really like Munich U+S-Bahn a lot. Of course there is always room for improvements, but overall I think it is a great system, and perfect for a midsize bigcity like Munich.

One of the things I really like is that it have a really good layout and are very well planned. As some have mentioned it is relatively new, and that is one factor, but also I think it have been planned very well - it doesn't have that lne that were never built, or that compromise because there suddenly wasn't money or time have changed, like many other systems suffers from. At least not what I'm aware of.
And I really like the layout. It covers the city well. Ofcoruse there is always places hat could be better covered, but I like the way the lines meets 2 and 2 in the center and then spreads out to cover a larger part of the surrounding city and the way there is never more than two lines to share same tracks.

I like the stations that seems big and spacious, with large capacity in the center.

One of my favorite thing about the S-Bahn is the 3-platform-stations in the center. With an island platform in the middle and on each side, to seperate the passenger flow. It is one of the most perfect planned solution for such busy stations I've seen, and something many other systems must envy.
Ofcoruse it would be good with a second tunnel to increase capacity and to prevent delays from spreding around, like many have mentioned, but that's the same story i many other cities, like Berlin, Frankfurt, Copenhagen and so on. It would be perfect with a two central sections like in Hamburg. But compared to all the other cities with only one central section that all S-Bahn-lines must share, I think the big stations, and the 3-platform solution is far better than what we have here in Copenhagen or in Berlin or many other places. I would switch any time if I could.

That is some of the things that makes this system that great, and one of the best I've seen. Also it is clean, efficient, fast etc., crowded (as it should be), but not too crowded.

I have never seen the perfect metro system anywhere, and I don't think there will ever be one. There are always things that could be better. Bet this is the closest I've seen.

Together with Stockholm Tunnelbana, it is my favorite system (but Stockholm Tunnelbana does not have nearly as good layout as Munich U+S-Bahn).
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 02:55 PM   #55
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As far as I know the Berlin S-bahn doesn't suffer from severe delays because of bunching or knock-on effects of different lines because there are fewer shared lines than there are in the likes of Frankfurt, Munich and Copenhagen.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 03:53 PM   #56
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Quote:
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I used to get the s-bahn from Aufhausen to Marienplatz twice a day, and there was always a lot of times when the train would stop on the tracks (presumably to let other trains go past). Does that still happen, or has the issue been rectified?
There are several projects on the S1, 2, 4 and 8 to build seperate tracks for the S-Bahn. They want to introduce a 10 minute interval on all lines and this demands seperate tracks. Regarding the S2 east (Aufhausen, Erding) there are 2 major projects:
1) "Erdinger Ringschluss" the S2 will cross Erding with 1 new underground station and will go further to the airport. The project will go U/C the next months or is even yet U/C i do not know exactly.

2) They will widen the number of tracks to 4 until "Markt Schwaben" so the S2 will be complete independent from other rail traffic.

3) They will improve the tracks between "Markt Schwaben" and Erding by removing all remaining level crossings.

For a map see http://www.nachbarschaftsbeirat.de/M.../Anbindung.pdf
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Old July 24th, 2008, 10:14 AM   #57
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Quote:
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As far as I know the Berlin S-bahn doesn't suffer from severe delays because of bunching or knock-on effects of different lines because there are fewer shared lines than there are in the likes of Frankfurt, Munich and Copenhagen.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Berlins S-Bahn runs along main lines but is completely separated and therefore independent. It has it's own tracks, it's own power supply and even junctions are grade-separated. It is simply the ideal of a S-Bahn.
Back to München. The S-Bahn there isn't far off that ideal either. All it needs are a few more tracks and a second cross-city tunnel.
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Old July 24th, 2008, 10:59 AM   #58
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...which would cost several billions. For me, that's "far".
Even a second tunnel wouldn't solve all problems. To reach this they would have to build seperate tracks on every line which is just impossible.
I often (up to 4 times in 5 working days) had the problem that a S-Bahn with minimum delay (maybe 2min) came out of the Stammstrecke right in front of a regional train on S8 to Geltendorf. The result was every time the same: The regional train has to go slow (because the S-Bahn in front stops at every station) and in Geltendorf the delay was 15min, later you have to hurry to catch your connection. That's far from optimal, I would say.
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Old July 24th, 2008, 11:23 AM   #59
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...which would cost several billions. For me, that's "far".
Even a second tunnel wouldn't solve all problems. To reach this they would have to build seperate tracks on every line which is just impossible.
A good transportation system doesn't come for free. However, the benefits of all these improvements are greater than the costs. And it is neither impossible of constructing the S-Bahns own tracks.
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Old July 24th, 2008, 02:15 PM   #60
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But won't happen on most lines because the density of normal trains isn't high enough that it's necessary (even if it "sometimes" causes problems). The second tunnel will probably be built, but financing it is always a problem. And the new airport link will have to come some day although noone has any idea how it would/should look like. So lots of things will happen sooner or later.
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