daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 2nd, 2010, 04:44 PM   #521
Schliemann
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 61
Likes (Received): 2

Well they are constantly working on some tracks in the system, since it is a very big system. If they were to change every route map that means they would constantly be changing the maps.
Since everybody is getting an iPhone these days, this will stop being a problem, because an updated map is accessible onlinea
Schliemann no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 2nd, 2010, 05:45 PM   #522
nr23Derek
Registered User
 
nr23Derek's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Norwich
Posts: 211
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schliemann View Post
Well they are constantly working on some tracks in the system, since it is a very big system. If they were to change every route map that means they would constantly be changing the maps.
Since everybody is getting an iPhone these days, this will stop being a problem, because an updated map is accessible onlinea
Strange, they do it in London easily enough.

Derek
nr23Derek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2010, 08:47 PM   #523
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,945
Likes (Received): 770

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schliemann View Post
Well they are constantly working on some tracks in the system, since it is a very big system. If they were to change every route map that means they would constantly be changing the maps.
Since everybody is getting an iPhone these days, this will stop being a problem, because an updated map is accessible onlinea
Constantly changing maps? Not a problem. Other cities seem to do this without any issues. There are different ways, one is to put small stickers on the map over stations which are closed stating when they are scheduled to reopen. Or of course, just have new maps each time.

If you want to see this done to an excellent degree, just go to London.

No, iPhones are great things, but they also require updating the information on the internet, and Berlin's BVG doesn't even seem to bother with this. Check out their map on their official web page, and it doesn't clearly indicate the lines and stations closed.
#http://www.bvg.de/index.php/de/3713/...iniennetz.html

Secondly, this is no good for tourists who most likely don't have data coverage when travelling to Germany from abroad. Most people switch off 3G data when travelling to another country because of the high costs. It could cost €50 just to find and get an updated map (if one existed) and who wants to spend that?
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2010, 03:55 PM   #524
Schliemann
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 61
Likes (Received): 2

If sections of the line are closed for a longer time I think they do indicate it. But since they have temporary bus service covering the closed section it's not like people get stranded.
Schliemann no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2010, 04:20 PM   #525
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,945
Likes (Received): 770

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schliemann View Post
If sections of the line are closed for a longer time I think they do indicate it. But since they have temporary bus service covering the closed section it's not like people get stranded.
They have temporary bus services in other cities whose metro's have closed sections and they still have it on all maps.

Sorry, but I can't see any justification for not doing this. When we were in Berlin, we found out the hard way as we took our suitcases to our apartment. It was quite uncomfortable and if I knew this u-bahn was out of service I would have taken a taxi. Likewise, it increased the travel time quite significantly, which is something that should be warned, especially for those who have an appointment or meeting.

The service was so bad that after that point we always found alternative methods to avoid that closed line and it's bus service, whether it was walking further to an S-bahn or taking the tram.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2010, 06:39 PM   #526
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

I agree, the only thing to do when there is "Schienenersatzverkehr" (a typical German bureaucratic monster word, translates literally as Rail Substitute Traffic, burt simply means no train, just a bus) is loop around it using other lines. Every summer BVG switches off huge swaths of its system, mostly the viaducts of the elevated U1 and U2 for months, modernizing but then switching off the same sections for more modernizing the next year. Everytime you have the panicked tourists on board who do not grasp how their metro map can indicate a situation that does not actually exist on the ground. Also, on other lines they stop services for repairs after ten p.m. (sometimes this seems to me more a way of avoiding costs for little-used trains), and since mostly, as stated above metros will still proudly indicate the official last stop and not the de fact one, you are duped into taking U-Bahns which get you nowhere.
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2010, 09:28 PM   #527
Schliemann
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 61
Likes (Received): 2

I agree that this is an annoyance, but i fail to see how this is so problematic. Very quickly i found this on bvg's webpage. It shows all changes in traffic that have been planned.
Now tourist might not look into it but they are after all tourist and probably have plenty of time.

I do agree that is not the best that trains still show the normal end station but it might only affect one station and the train run on both sides of it. So indicating only how long you can travel with rail will raise more question since the line does continue just on another type of transport.
Schliemann no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2010, 10:33 PM   #528
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,945
Likes (Received): 770

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schliemann View Post
I agree that this is an annoyance, but i fail to see how this is so problematic. Very quickly i found this on bvg's webpage. It shows all changes in traffic that have been planned.
Now tourist might not look into it but they are after all tourist and probably have plenty of time.

I do agree that is not the best that trains still show the normal end station but it might only affect one station and the train run on both sides of it. So indicating only how long you can travel with rail will raise more question since the line does continue just on another type of transport.
The point is though, if a service can be improved, it should be. Sure, BVG can provide a half arsed solution like only that web page deep down in their website, but it's like any other service business, if you provide a half arsed service you loose customers. A person who goes to a restaurant and gets crap service may not use it again. The same with public transport where people may just revert back to cars or a bike.

Also, the fact that other cities solve this problem extremely efficiently suggests that BVG is not stepping up to the plate here. It's not like it's an improvement that is too difficult to execute.

At the end of the day, I agree with you that it isn't the end of the world. But when all these little things add up, it's the combined issues that can drive away customers.

All that aside, I still love the Berlin network, but since my last visit, it has dropped down the list of my favourite ones I have travelled on. For this and many other reasons. I guess the network is short of money, and I can certainly see it spending what little money it has on many improvements. But by cutting costs on some of these rather important but small ones, I think it is letting itself down somewhat.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #529
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,885
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by nr23Derek View Post
Strange, they do it in London easily enough.

Derek
No, they don't. There might be a few more information in stations about closures. The maps in the trains, however, are always the same.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2010, 12:47 AM   #530
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,945
Likes (Received): 770

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
No, they don't. There might be a few more information in stations about closures. The maps in the trains, however, are always the same.
I always see it in London on the trains, or every full network map. They identify stations closed for refurb, or lines that have been closed for extended times. I'm not talking basic day problems, but planned closures. Often it's just a sticker placed over a station, but it's still there and pretty clear.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2010, 01:00 AM   #531
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,885
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
I always see it in London on the trains, or every full network map. They identify stations closed for refurb, or lines that have been closed for extended times. I'm not talking basic day problems, but planned closures. Often it's just a sticker placed over a station, but it's still there and pretty clear.
There is no sticker on these maps when half the network is closed for a week-end.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2010, 02:36 PM   #532
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,945
Likes (Received): 770

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
There is no sticker on these maps when half the network is closed for a week-end.
Well, as I said, I wasn't talking about a week or less. The U2 closure is a long term restoration project, and in this case, yes, it would have changed maps on the tube.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2011, 12:06 PM   #533
hadrett32
busy.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 194
Likes (Received): 31

The Berlin public transportation system runs very decent, however, it recently had a lack of effiency regarding punctuality and reliability, which was caused due to maintenance work
hadrett32 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2011, 07:37 PM   #534
schmidt
Registered User
 
schmidt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,557
Likes (Received): 59

The U2 works are quite annoying. Schönhauser Allee is jammed and riding the bus up to Pankow or the station before may take some 20 minutes (which with the U2 would take 7, 8 if much).
schmidt no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2011, 10:35 PM   #535
Dase
Registered User
 
Dase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Moscow / Berlin
Posts: 514
Likes (Received): 61

^ Only that those works are finished since December. Btw, both the closure of the stretch to Ruhleben and to Pankow were indicated by stickers on the line chain signs in the stations.
Dase no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2011, 11:20 PM   #536
rheintram
yeah, whatever
 
rheintram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,598
Likes (Received): 924

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadrett32 View Post
The Berlin public transportation system runs very decent, however, it recently had a lack of effiency regarding punctuality and reliability, which was caused due to maintenance work
decent? S-Bahn performance is anything but decent.
rheintram no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2011, 02:28 AM   #537
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,072
Likes (Received): 8783

Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
decent? S-Bahn performance is anything but decent.
I thought the S-bahn reliability had picked up again and that most problems had been sorted? I know they are on winter timetables at the moment until February due to extreme weather, but then lots of the world has been suffering with extreme weather recently...
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2011, 12:01 PM   #538
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,885
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
I thought the S-bahn reliability had picked up again and that most problems had been sorted? I know they are on winter timetables at the moment until February due to extreme weather, but then lots of the world has been suffering with extreme weather recently...
Any transport system suffers in rather unusual weather conditions. The S-Bahn Berlin, however, breaks down almost completely. The system is extremely fragile for now and the years to come.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2011, 02:34 PM   #539
Dase
Registered User
 
Dase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Moscow / Berlin
Posts: 514
Likes (Received): 61

^ But this has neither anything to do with the weather nor the system setup itself.

Reason for the problems that are already plagueing the Berlin S-Bahn where the extreme cost cutting measures implemented a few years ago to increase the profits that had to be paid over to Deutsche Bahn AG that tried to make itself more attractve for going public - a plan that has since been abanddoned, partly because of consequences like this one.
Dase no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 02:04 PM   #540
MrNogatco
Urban Explorer
 
MrNogatco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: I live in Vancouver but don't represent it
Posts: 100
Likes (Received): 67

Have the cost cutting measures been abandoned or the plans to offer DBAG public shares?
MrNogatco no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
berlin, buses, s-bahn, trams, transport, u-bahn

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium