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Old February 4th, 2011, 10:58 PM   #541
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Not a single management policy of recent years has really been abandoned. Cost cuttings have partly been taken back though. Privatization of the holding company, however, is only been delayed and still on the cards.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #542
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decent? S-Bahn performance is anything but decent.
compared to North American public transport it is decent
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Old February 10th, 2011, 10:43 PM   #543
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Quote:
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compared to North American public transport it is decent
I've always loved the Berlin S-Bahn, it's actually my favorite mass transit system. I love the trains, stations are for the most part nice and service was great. Of course though, I lived in Berlin from 2006-2009, before all the troubles...

I loooove the 481/482 trainsets! They're so beautiful and comfortable.
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Old February 13th, 2011, 01:01 AM   #544
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compared to North American public transport it is decent
Also compared with London Tube, I think!

Berlin's U-Bahn is very fast! S-Bahn lines are very long, so it seems that trains run slowly, but I think it isn't so.

Sure, I can only compare Milan Metropolitana, London Tube and Berlin U+S-Bahn, but if I have to choose, my vote goes for Berlin's transport system!
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Old February 13th, 2011, 03:48 PM   #545
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What actually makes the S and U bahn different systems? They both seem to do the same sort of job.

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Old February 13th, 2011, 04:54 PM   #546
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U-bahn is mostly underground, and reaches more parts of the city. It also works on a shorter distance between stops and I think it has smaller capacity.
S-bahn is faster, elevated, has longer distance between stops and is not so widespread downtown.
You could say that the Berlin tram is doing the same sort of job and you wouldn't be wrong...
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Old February 13th, 2011, 08:14 PM   #547
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What actually makes the S and U bahn different systems? They both seem to do the same sort of job.
Short question, long answer. Yes, U-Bahn is mostly underground and S-Bahn mostly overground, but that is not all. U-Bahn lines are haphazard lines that run mostly through the inner districts at about 5 minute intervals. They are unsystematic and their main aim is to serve innercity commutes.
The S-Bahn instead is a commuter train system which is most important for the outer districts; originally they were part of the regular train system, but at the beginning of the 20th century were seperated track- and electricity-wise, so usually they run parallel to long-distance (or former long-distance) lines. On the three lines that serve the inner city, S-Bahns run at tight intervals of up to 3 minutes, but then when they reach the outer districts, they fan out to serve seperate routes at 10-20 minute intervals.
The system in Berlin has even more different categories of rail services: there is Regional-Express, trains running on the regular long-distance train grid usually at hourly intervals, arriving at neighboring cities such as Potsdam or Oranienburg at a much faster speed as they do not stop as often as an S-Bahn and in some cases continiuing as much as 200 km outside of Berlin.
There is regular Regionalbahn, which is mostly to serve the unelectrified secondary lines that are beyond the S-Bahn network and not part of the long-distance network.
Back inside the city, there are the aforementioned trams, which are divided into "metrotrams" that run every 5-10 minutes on important inner city routes and regular trams running every 20 minutes on secondary routes. Although important especially for getting around East Berlin where the U-Bahn network is not so dense, they are a much slower affair with frequent stops and not comparable to some modern rapid transit systems in other cities.
Sorry for complicating things, but I wanted to be comprehensive.
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Old February 14th, 2011, 03:16 PM   #548
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Quote:
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What actually makes the S and U bahn different systems? They both seem to do the same sort of job.
The real difference is its legal status. The S-Bahn although separated on its own tracks is a mainline service. Its operation is subject to the EBO, the German railway regulation. The Underground in contrast is regulated by the BOStrab.
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Old February 14th, 2011, 11:10 PM   #549
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And of course the trains are a different colour

Thanks for the answers. The S bahn network is really impressive now its all back up and running. When I knew the city back in the 80's when it was divided I always thought of the s-bahn as an old, derelict system and from what I knew of the east, which wasn't much, the network was fractured and incomplete.

Last summer I spent a wet day riding the dogs head circle line and generally exploring the system. Great fun!

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Old February 14th, 2011, 11:31 PM   #550
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Both systems are great. I always wondered how did it look during the cold war. Of c I read about it on the net, but it I'm sure that only the rare few had insight into the real situation with the ghost, abandoned and closed stations at the time.

Today, it's a pity that Berlin authorities don't have money to expand U-bahn network as Berlin deserves.

Offtopic: Derek, if I'm not wrong our cities are "sisters"
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Old February 14th, 2011, 11:53 PM   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kot Behemot View Post
Offtopic: Derek, if I'm not wrong our cities are "sisters"
Indeed

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Old February 15th, 2011, 05:36 PM   #552
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A very interesting documentary about S-Bahn at Wall's time (1981), on ZDF.

http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/haupt...4chst-das-Gras
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Old April 23rd, 2011, 03:05 PM   #553
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billpa
I would guess that's the only example of border control in a metro in world history?
I think yes.
This is only halfway true. Berlin is the only such city, but during the short time after the wall had fallen but there were still two Germanies, they opened all stations along U6 and U8 for passengers. On each of the reopened stations there was also a (lazy) border control.
I do not remember where I learned this, but I must have found it either on berliner-untergrundbahn.de or on some of the numerous info signs about local history in Berlin. I found this an extremely interesting theme when I moved to Berlin and hunted down all the information I could
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Old April 23rd, 2011, 03:15 PM   #554
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Can someone post a pic of how does today look that place where the U-Bahn went through that building?
Here's a pic of the place on google street view: http://maps.google.fi/maps?f=q&sourc...09.93,,0,-7.95 .
The train crosses over the street inside an elevated tunnel that begins just before the street. A weird construction. Unfortunately Google seems to have considered the house wall a face and has blurred it.
I would guess the aforementioned "same place after the war" pic is taken elsewhere and this is the place where the older picture was taken.
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Old June 6th, 2011, 06:07 PM   #555
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New lines to Berlin Main Station u/c

Today marks the official beginning of construction on improvement to the Berlin main station's accessibility to local public transport. Deutsche Bahn is building an S-Bahn link from the station's subterranean lower floor to the Nordring. It will fan out both westwards to Westhafen and eastwards to Wedding. Passengers coming in from Jungfernheide (northern Charlottenburg) or Schönhauser Allee (northern Prenzlauer Berg) can thus reach the main station without changing. Due to a number of tunnels and bridges necessary for this, despite the relatively short distance of 7 km, constructing will take until 2017.
Also a tram stop will link up northern Mitte and southern Prenzlauer Berg: an extension from Nordbahnhof to Hauptbahnhof begins today and will be finished either in 2013 or 2015, depending on whom you believe.
Both lines were already planned to be ready by the time of the station's opening 5 years ago, but spending cuts, construction delays and in the case of the tram protest against the misuse of the tram construction for widening roads for car traffic considerably delayed these projects.
Thus, we have in Berlin the following rail projects under construction to my knowledge:
RegionalBahn: access to the new airport in Schönefeld (to open with the opening of the airport; but the actual Dresdner Bahn still is not u/C)
S-Bahn: Westhafen/Wedding-Hauptbahnhof (2017)
UBahn: Brandenburger Tor to Alexanderplatz (stalled due to archaeological digs: 2017?)
Tram: extension to Adlershof (to open late 2011)
Tram: extension Nordbahnhof to Hauptbahnhof (2015?)
Not alot. The Greens promise to invest heavily into tramlines if they are elected, but they are not very strong on upkeeping their promises. Let' see.
Did I miss anything?
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Old June 6th, 2011, 07:18 PM   #556
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Also a tram stop will link up northern Mitte and southern Prenzlauer Berg: an extension from Nordbahnhof to Hauptbahnhof
M10 S+U Warschauer Str. - S+U Hauptbahnhof?

So, the famous S21 is coming to life. What will be the stations of origin for these two western and eastern branches?

In my opinion, Berlin already has a great system, which at the moment can cope with the demand (and the whole system seems widely oversized, although I love it). What is missing is a serious extension of the tram network in south-western districts, I think, and completion of some small missing pieces (e.g. U3 to Mexicoplatz).
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Old June 6th, 2011, 08:51 PM   #557
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M10 S+U Warschauer Str. - S+U Hauptbahnhof?

So, the famous S21 is coming to life. What will be the stations of origin for these two western and eastern branches?
M6, M8, and M10 are supposed to terminate at Hauptbahnhof in future.
you raise an important point about the future S-bahn lines which will actually connect to Hauptbahnhof. From the northwest, I would let the line start in Spandau, as it would probably be faster than the lines passing Westkreuz to Hauptbahnhof. From the northeast it is much harder. Either you can do a mini-line from say, Greifswalder Straße which is much too short for an S-Bahn, or you extend the line via Pankow, but than you have a line which is not too different from present-day S2 via Friedrichstraße. Either way is not really efficient in creating alternatives to present routes. By the way, one news report said that already by 2019 the S21 would also reach Potsdamer Platz.
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Old June 6th, 2011, 09:13 PM   #558
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From the northwest, I would let the line start in Spandau, as it would probably be faster than the lines passing Westkreuz to Hauptbahnhof.
There is no S-Bahn line from Spandau to Jungfernheide. The only pair of S-Bahn tracks to Spandau diverges from the Stadtbahn line at Westkreuz.
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Old June 6th, 2011, 09:19 PM   #559
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I have a doubt about the S21 link Hbf - Potsdamer Platz: has the tunnel already been built, along with the mainline and U55 ones, or will it need a completely new project?

About a Spandau-Hbf link being faster than via Westkreuz, you are probably right, since today's RE line via Jungfernheide is much faster than via Charlottenburg, although, as flierfy said, at the moment that link should be built from scratch (the return of the Siemensbahn would be close ).

For the eastern branch, I would consider a simple shuttle service just like U55, so a short link is not that bad. Greifswalder Str. - Hbf would be better than Pankow - Hbf, because today in Nordkreuz you have the Ges. - Bornholmer Str. branch very well server, while the Ges. - Schoenhauser Allee branch only has the Ring connection.
Today, if you come down from the Bornholmer Str. lines, you only have to change once, in Friedrichstr.; if you are in the northwestern ring you are screwed. Once I almost missed a train, I was in Greifswalder and had to change in Gesundbrunnen and Friedrichstr.!
Our "S22" would fill this gap.

On the other hand, with the completion of the tram network, northern Prenzlauer Berg will be already connected with Hbf, so this short "S22" could be a doubled service.

Very interesting issue, indeed. And still we're not talking about what will happen south of Potsdamer Platz!
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; June 6th, 2011 at 09:26 PM.
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Old June 7th, 2011, 10:10 AM   #560
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The French company Keolis (57% owned by the SNCF) wants to bid to run parts of the Berlin S-Bahn from 2017.

http://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/arti...bernehmen.html (full story)
http://www.keolis.de/no_cache/news-m...m_prozess.html

Even though the new contract will only start in 2017 the first signs of the competition between the 2 companies are already played out in the media. This is because the DB already wants to order new trains that are needed to cope with the growth and to tackle the problems that it has with it's current fleet. Keolis now says that they are behind a new order by the DB, but the process should be transparent for possible contenders in order for them to have a say in the process. According to them the experience that Keolis has in urban transport in Paris, London and Melbourne can already be used in the advantage of the S-Bahn. Keolis also stresses the new contract should have clear conditions for the transfer of rolling stock when one of the competitors wins (part of) the new contract.

It's clear that Keolis wants to bid on the S-Bahn services, and that they are not certain that it will be an open competition. It will be interesting how this will play out, it could become quite messy.
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