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Old April 16th, 2012, 09:25 PM   #581
Baron Hirsch
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Quote:
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Any info regarding the U5 extension connecting Alexanderplatz and Brandenburger Tor? How far along are they? When will any of the stations open?
Construction start was much delayed due to important archaeological findings. Now real construction is starting. Opening of the line this way will be delayed to around 2019.
U5 - Berlin's neverending story, the line noone wanted but everybody ended up building anyways.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 09:59 PM   #582
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Old April 16th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #583
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Old April 16th, 2012, 10:08 PM   #584
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Old April 17th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #585
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Have you been in berlin recently, Minato?
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Old April 17th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #586
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Why nobody wanted U5? It makes sense as a connector of many other lines and serving important destinations. Much better than any currently available option.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #587
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Have you been in berlin recently, Minato?
In August 2011.
Great city and great transportation system.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 06:47 PM   #588
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Why nobody wanted U5? It makes sense as a connector of many other lines and serving important destinations. Much better than any currently available option.
And, if continued in the north-western part of the city, would fill a giant gap in that sector...

I have more doubts about S21, even if I'm very curious about that project.

BTW, I was in Berlin one month ago, the portion of Alexanderplatz between the station and the Rathaus is a messy building site for the U5 works.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 09:07 PM   #589
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The U5 expansion seems to make perfect sense. The disaster is that Chancellor subway as long as this expansion is not realized. Its a shame for Germany as a whole, after all Berlin is the capital.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 09:16 PM   #590
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That´s right! It´s a national tragedy! Thank you for bringing up this painful subject.

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Old April 19th, 2012, 11:09 PM   #591
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The U5 expansion seems to make perfect sense. The disaster is that Chancellor subway as long as this expansion is not realized. Its a shame for Germany as a whole, after all Berlin is the capital.
Not being german, I just see that a not rich enough city/regional government has to do some cuts because doesn't have money. And the problem is...? Is better to extract more money from "somewhere" to do a service that a bus already can do? Isn't all this a good sign of governance without mad rush for "capital" things? Aren't they using logic over heart in something so important like social money (admirable these times!)? This is one of the reasons that makes me admire post-1945 Germany and german people.

I understand the importance of the Hauptbahnhof, but more difficult/expensive/important is the enlargment of the U4 and more years this line has been the funny thing in the U-bahn map and nobody internationally cared.

What is Washington DC in a country with the 20%/25% GDP of the world? In other countries: Beijing, Tianjing Shanghai, Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai... All this "capital" thing is just antinatural.

What is really harmful is watching this luxurious capitals in the middle of nowhere (economically speaking, and I preffer to NOT cite any) artificially enlarged by [kings/dictators/old monopolies/political parties] while the 80%/90% of the money and work is produced outside having by far a better effect in the territory.

The times of reality-by-postcards passed: Welcome to the Internet. No more fake cities, please.

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Old April 20th, 2012, 11:39 AM   #592
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Dear Suburbanist and other supporters of U5 extension, please look at this map.

U 5 extension will run parallel to the Stadtbahn line of the S-Bahn between Alexanderplatz and Hauptbahnhof. It is never more than 5 minutes by walking from the S-Bahn. For those who wish to walk less, the bus with frequent stops on Unter den Linden will continue to be the better option.
U 5 will therefore only bring benefits to those who leave far east of the Alexanderplatz and will save transfering at Alex when going to Hauptbahnhof. The number of passengers concerned and the plus in comfort and ridership does not justify such a huge investment.
I agree with Wilhelm though that if the orginal plan to extend it to Jungfernheide as a diagonal line to connect the Northwestern districts of Moabit and northern Charlottenburg to downtown (East) Berlin, this would have been a real gain.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 03:44 PM   #593
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Dear Suburbanist and other supporters of U5 extension, please look at this map.

U 5 extension will run parallel to the Stadtbahn line of the S-Bahn between Alexanderplatz and Hauptbahnhof. It is never more than 5 minutes by walking from the S-Bahn. For those who wish to walk less, the bus with frequent stops on Unter den Linden will continue to be the better option.
U 5 will therefore only bring benefits to those who leave far east of the Alexanderplatz and will save transfering at Alex when going to Hauptbahnhof. The number of passengers concerned and the plus in comfort and ridership does not justify such a huge investment.
I agree with Wilhelm though that if the orginal plan to extend it to Jungfernheide as a diagonal line to connect the Northwestern districts of Moabit and northern Charlottenburg to downtown (East) Berlin, this would have been a real gain.
I just made a comment about the geography of the line, having been on the area couple times (not relevant but still: I support the construction of the A100 ring road - Stadt ring and some elevated expressways over tram lines like M4 instead of rail, but since the leftist government of Berlin State will not build 100km of highways, it useful to think about the rail investments).

U5 makes a lot of sense.

The S-Bahn stations are not that close and they look crap.

The Museum island and the Berliner Dom are more like 1km from the nearest station, and it is a major hit with tourists. the Brandenburg Tor is also isolated from the Hbf. station by rail, unless you use a combination of S-Bahn with a change and lengthy loss of time because of station design.

They could get away with a tram... but they'd have put 20 stops instead of 7 stations. However, buses as you suggested are an inferior 3rd World form of transportation an no substitute for segregated transit services.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #594
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I just made a comment about the geography of the line, having been on the area couple times (not relevant but still: I support the construction of the A100 ring road - Stadt ring and some elevated expressways over tram lines like M4 instead of rail, but since the leftist government of Berlin State will not build 100km of highways, it useful to think about the rail investments).

U5 makes a lot of sense.

The S-Bahn stations are not that close and they look crap.

The Museum island and the Berliner Dom are more like 1km from the nearest station, and it is a major hit with tourists. the Brandenburg Tor is also isolated from the Hbf. station by rail, unless you use a combination of S-Bahn with a change and lengthy loss of time because of station design.

They could get away with a tram... but they'd have put 20 stops instead of 7 stations. However, buses as you suggested are an inferior 3rd World form of transportation an no substitute for segregated transit services.
Just tipped it into google route planner. Berliner Dom is 500 meters, 6 minutes walk, from Hackescher Markt station. Alte Nationalgalerie is even closer. The other two museums are 600 meters from Friedrichstraße station, closer than the 700 m walk to the future station of Museumsinsel.
There have been heavy investments into making the Stadtbahn stations not look like crap. If the result does not please you, this cannot be helped.
The busses are of course not to replace a rail connection, but to complement the S-Bahn line for those who are less mobile on foot or prefer easy orientation.
The easy orientation argument for tourists (have a station for Museumsinsel rather than studying a map on how to walk there from the S-Bahn) is just above the only argument, besides perhaps the one additional direct connection to Hauptbahnhof you found that I cna count in the favor of the line. I am in general in favor of rail infrastructure in major cities; my point however is that this route was not the most urgent or most necessary line for Berliners, and that other connections (or rail systems) would have made better use of the money.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 06:18 PM   #595
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But if so, how to properly connect the new Hbf. station with the Bundestag, Brandernburg Tor or even other areas nearby? Because for that, U55 provides the only real link (using 2 S-Bahns from Brandenburg Tor to Hbf. will take a lot of time and the Bundestag, the seat of German government for all places, would be still totally disconnected!).

Do you seriously think people "should just get used to talk" to/from the Bundestag, as I once read in other thread?

Let's also remember that the U5 station x S-Bahn station transfer at Alexanderplatz is clearly a bad one: you need to exit the station, walk over a plaza in open air for almost 200m to get from one to another. No direct under/overground connection between the two, iff what I saw in a map is correct.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #596
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the Bundestag, the seat of German government for all places, would be still totally disconnected!).

Do you seriously think people "should just get used to talk" to/from the Bundestag, as I once read in other thread?
It might be argued that no one who does not have services of a chauffeur has any business at Bundestag. But I doubt whether it is German voters who argue that.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 08:36 PM   #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post

U5 makes a lot of sense.

The S-Bahn stations are not that close and they look crap.

The Museum island and the Berliner Dom are more like 1km from the nearest station, and it is a major hit with tourists. the Brandenburg Tor is also isolated from the Hbf. station by rail, unless you use a combination of S-Bahn with a change and lengthy loss of time because of station design.

They could get away with a tram... but they'd have put 20 stops instead of 7 stations. However, buses as you suggested are an inferior 3rd World form of transportation an no substitute for segregated transit services.
With all due respect, you have no f***ing clue what you're talking about.
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Old April 21st, 2012, 09:57 PM   #598
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Berlin Mitte is, ... well, the centre of Berlin (even if Berlin has other centres as well, Mitte has beyond any doubt regained its old title as heart of the city). Therefore parallel lines (for a few stations) in a distance of half a km to each other are not unreasonably at all. To the contrary, in the heart of a city the transportation demands of a whole city bundle. Moreover the U55 connects better to many major central destinations while the S-Bahn is superior on a wider corridor also beyond the city centre and connects better to other central places of interest. People also can efficiently interchange between both.

In Vienna you have lots of subways within a several 100 m radius of the Stephans Cathedral, some of them also somewhat parallel for a few stations. No one would question their existence.
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Old April 22nd, 2012, 02:59 AM   #599
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The main error of Suburbanist is that - in Berlin - buses are NOT an "inferior 3rd World form of transportation",
but a very good addition to segregated transit services.
And so are bikes, which are allowed in S-Bahn, subway and streetcars.

more, there is no more than 600 meters between the museums and Hackescher Markt S-bahn station

Nothing more pleasant than this statue in Berlin http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4031/...cf292dfe99.jpg

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Old April 22nd, 2012, 05:10 AM   #600
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Buses are technologically inferior anywhere in the World for being totally dependable on human input to accelerate, brake and - especially - judge safety in turns, crossings etc. Its and inherent inferiority of all internal combustion, steering-parallel-axes-on-tires road vehicles. Mind you, I love cars and have used car extensively in Berlin, despite the high prices of parking... but when I use a car I have a seat belt all the time, and airbags and other stuff should something occur while bus passengers are not restrained at all...

So even in Berlin buses are inferior by design. They have safety features that are akin to those of trams of pre WW-2, if so (they still don't have guidance to prevent lateral acceleration).
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