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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:15 AM   #701
city_thing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cristof View Post
i guess the fraud must be very high ... isnt it? i was quite shocked by the fact people dont have to obliterate the ticket or whatsoever before entering the platforms ... when i visited Berlin... i have never checked in before using the metro even though i had a pass.
also... people drink a lot in the metro ... quite nice though. i guess it was similar in the tube before the ban.
When I was in Berlin a few years ago, we got checked for tickets by undercover (casual dress) transport officers all the time. They blend in with the crowd quite well (similar people always stand out here in Melbourne) and surprise you.

When it first happened, we had no idea who they were. They just came up to us talking in German and we thought they were going to rob us or something

It happened all the time to us so I doubt people riding illegally would be a big issue.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 07:50 PM   #702
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Bundestag U-Bahn station

This ought to be, at least on its present form, the most oversized station in Berlin. It was very quiet when I used it in the middle of a weekday.

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IMG_2654 by eurograd, on Flickr

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Future escalator
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Short line:

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IMG_2662 by eurograd, on Flickr
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Old July 4th, 2013, 07:57 PM   #703
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Hopefully it will be far more utilised following connection to the U5. I'd imagine it would be quite a popular connection eventually. I never did understand the short spur line of the U55, though. It seemed very odd to open this very short section for a few passengers before the more useful connection was finished.

Does anyone actually have an annual ridership for the U55 and station entry/exit numbers at all just for interests sake?
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Old July 4th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #704
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I noticed that myself. I would guess its operating just so they can have a U-bahn connection to hbf?

I also noticed that U4 seemed deserted, at least when I checked it out.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 08:52 PM   #705
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The U55 spur was built prior than the rest because Hbf missed a connection to the important N-S S-Bahn corridor (S1-2-25).

It runs under less built-up areas than the rest of new-U5, part of its tunnels are parallel to the railway ones going to Potsdamer Platz, so it was quicker to build compared to the rest of the project, so it got priority.

Its present day aim is just to better connect Hbf to the S-Bahn network.

Travellers may also use the Stadtbahn to Friedrichstr. and then change to S1-2-25, but I think it's a less convenient interchange and probably designers didn't want to put more load on that interchange.


Funny thing is that today U5 crosses S5 three times, which will become four at Hbf. No other lines in Berlin criss-cross each other so many times.

Complete U5 will be an interesting stand-alone link. Even more interesting if it will ever be completed westwards, across the poorly served Moabit area.
Stations Turmstr. on U9 and Jungfernheide on U7/Ring are already built to receive U5.
Then it would have been a straight link to Tegel airport, but there's no more reason for it, as of today. We'll see what the development plans for that area will be.

In case U5 and U7 routes would be switched at Jungfernheide, U5 would reach Spandau... and meet S5 once again



U4 is actually in an unfortunate placement. The much stronger U9 is very close to it, and it is difficult to extend it south because they built a highway at the same level, and north there is just Tiergarten.
Any possible evolution is just an act of fantasy, IMHO.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:02 PM   #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Hopefully it will be far more utilised following connection to the U5. I'd imagine it would be quite a popular connection eventually. I never did understand the short spur line of the U55, though. It seemed very odd to open this very short section for a few passengers before the more useful connection was finished.

Does anyone actually have an annual ridership for the U55 and station entry/exit numbers at all just for interests sake?
It will be better used then U5 finally reaches Hbf.. Ridership is a little better than expected and U55 tends to have around 6.000 to 8.000 passengers per day. This is fairly low but it depends on how much tourists are in town. Bundestag-station is and will be the less used station of U5, even if it reaches Hbf. The reason why it looks oversized results from a project, to build another house on top of the station, so the vestibules at both side should have been used as underpasses.

The story behind U5 this in short form:
With the reunification Berlin and state-government signed a contract in which (together with other things) U5 should be build from Alexanderplatz to Turmstraße (first part to Hbf.). Construction started between Brandenburger Tor and Hbf. at 1998 in order to build the U-Bahn together with the railway-tunnel and the street-tunnel.

As I said recently Berlin was hit by a financial desaster as the state-owned bank didn´t want to go bankrupt and moved it´s doubts on to Berlin-council-account, so Berlin went bankrupt Blame politicians for that.

New government couldn´t pay even the small Berlin-part of 20% of metro-construction costs for U5. In 2004 german state confirmed that Berlin should pay back the already built parts of metro. So there was the choice to pay back for an empty tunnel or to let a subway car run three stations underground.

This line is somewhat unic worldwide as the train operates on one track without signalling. There is no connection to other lines, maybe little similarity to Waterloo&City-line in London or linea 6 in Naples.

Despite this sad and obscure story I´m definetely sure that U5 to Hbf will be a success if it runs one day. At least the interrupted U6 (because of U5-construction) will be in service in November 2013, they are moving forward fast.

Kind regards
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #707
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Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Any possible evolution is just an act of fantasy, IMHO.
Yes. U4 was used as a test-line for the Seltrac automatic train operation in the early 80s. They really put a 90-second interval interval with ATO on this small and unimportant line just to look how it works. Later they selled Seltrac to DLR in London and it´s still the mother of other Seltrac-systems today. Seltrac derives from Standard-Elektrik-lorenz, a competitor of Siemens long time gone.

U4 is not much used but it´s not so expensive to operate. Stations are simple (but nice) small halls just direct under street-level like Budapest Földalatti. As with Budapest U4 was build by Siemens and operated by an own company. Later it was merged with the Hochbahn at Nollendorfplatz. There was a seperate maintainance-yard at Eisackstraße, some old tunnels still exist there.

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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Hopefully it will be far more utilised following connection to the U5. I'd imagine it would be quite a popular connection eventually. I never did understand the short spur line of the U55, though. It seemed very odd to open this very short section for a few passengers before the more useful connection was finished.

Does anyone actually have an annual ridership for the U55 and station entry/exit numbers at all just for interests sake?
It will be better used then U5 finally reaches Hbf.. Ridership is a little better than expected and U55 tends to have around 6.000 to 8.000 passengers per day. This is fairly low but it depends on how much tourists are in town. Bundestag-station is and will be the less used station of U5, even if it reaches Hbf. The reason why it looks oversized results from a project, to build another house on top of the station, so the vestibules at both side should have been used as underpasses.

The story behind U5 this in short form:
With the reunification Berlin and state-government signed a contract in which (together with other things) U5 should be build from Alexanderplatz to Turmstraße (first part to Hbf.). Construction started between Brandenburger Tor and Hbf. at 1998 in order to build the U-Bahn together with the railway-tunnel and the street-tunnel.

As I said recently Berlin was hit by a financial desaster as the state-owned bank didn´t want to go bankrupt and moved it´s doubts on to Berlin-council-account, so Berlin went bankrupt Blame politicians for that.

New government couldn´t pay even the small Berlin-part of 20% of metro-construction costs for U5. In 2004 german state confirmed that Berlin should pay back the already built parts of metro. So there was the choice to pay back for an empty tunnel or to let a subway car run three stations underground.

This line is somewhat unic worldwide as the train operates on one track without signalling. There is no connection to other lines, maybe little similarity to Waterloo&City-line in London or linea 6 in Naples.

Despite this sad and obscure story I´m definetely sure that U5 to Hbf will be a success if it runs one day. At least the interrupted U6 (because of U5-construction) will be in service in November 2013, they are moving forward fast.

Kind regards
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #709
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Why would they extend the subway to Tegel if the airport will be shut down? Was the decision to build the new Willy Brandt Airport (BER) taken much after the decision to build U5 on the Unter den Linen alignment?

The Moabit area looks indeed very poorly served: no trams and just a subway line that doesn't actually go to central areas.

==========================

I have a more general question: it seems that BVG is putting lifts all over the stations. At least this was my impression between visits in 2008 and 2013 (plus others in the meantime when I only used cars/roads).

Does it plan to fit more stations with escalators? It seems that very few stations have downward escalators, like you are supposed to climb staircases down or use the lift (which people will naturally only do if they have luggage or are hurt or on wheelchair or pushing a stroller).

I think they should aim to provide all transfer U-Bahn/S-Bahn stations with escalators both ways (up/down) for any reasonable transfer.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:52 PM   #710
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Why would they extend the subway to Tegel if the airport will be shut down? Was the decision to build the new Willy Brandt Airport (BER) taken much after the decision to build U5 on the Unter den Linen alignment?
Both decisions were taken at the same time, but U5 should only reach Turmstraße. Tegel-airport-metro dates back to 1969, when airport-construcion begun, it never came to reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I have a more general question: it seems that BVG is putting lifts all over the stations. At least this was my impression between visits in 2008 and 2013 (plus others in the meantime when I only used cars/roads).

Does it plan to fit more stations with escalators? It seems that very few stations have downward escalators, like you are supposed to climb staircases down or use the lift (which people will naturally only do if they have luggage or are hurt or on wheelchair or pushing a stroller).
There is a german (european?) act that public transport should be completely wheelchair-accessible until 2023. First lift was build in 1984 at Rathaus Spandau-station, later in 1989 they started construction of first lift in an existing station. So yes, around 60% of stations are so called barrier-free (lifts or ramps). Busses are and trams will be completely low-floor when the last Tatras will leave Berlin in 2017.

Escalator donwards are only build if there is much passenger traffic. In average a Berlin U-Bahn-station lies just between 5 to 8 m below street-level, deepest is 18 m. So regarding depth there is no real need to have escalators in both directions. As it is not allowed to keep buggies on escalators (to much accidents) a lift is the best option for the handicaped people.

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Old July 4th, 2013, 11:01 PM   #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post

The Moabit area looks indeed very poorly served: no trams and just a subway line that doesn't actually go to central areas.

==========================

I have a more general question: it seems that BVG is putting lifts all over the stations. At least this was my impression between visits in 2008 and 2013 (plus others in the meantime when I only used cars/roads).

Does it plan to fit more stations with escalators? It seems that very few stations have downward escalators, like you are supposed to climb staircases down or use the lift (which people will naturally only do if they have luggage or are hurt or on wheelchair or pushing a stroller).

I think they should aim to provide all transfer U-Bahn/S-Bahn stations with escalators both ways (up/down) for any reasonable transfer.
Well, U9 might not got to Berlin Mitte but it is wrong to say it doesn't go to central areas, since it goes to Zoo Station and Kurfürstendamm which is in fact the western city center, and also to Steglitz/Schloßstr.
I guess in these areas there are at least as much jobs as in Mitte if not more.

But still you're right, U5 would improve the situation in Moabit.

Regarding the escalators, I think it's reasonable to have people walk stairs, if someone can't, he/she might use the elevator.

Last edited by jeromeee; July 5th, 2013 at 12:36 AM.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 12:13 AM   #712
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U9, together with U7, was in fact the modern main line of West Berlin...

It has a 4 minutes headway, right?
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Old July 5th, 2013, 01:25 AM   #713
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Yeah, I think it has at rush hour and most of the day it's 5 minutes.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 01:36 AM   #714
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http://fahrinfo.vbb.de/bin/trainsear...1&clustering=1

From looking at timetable books, it looks like the U9 and U7 runs every 5 minutes most of the time (even during rush hour) and every 10 minutes later at night (and every 15 minutes throughout the night on Friday night/Saturday morning and Saturday night/Sunday morning).

How accurate are these timetables compared to the real running of the system?
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Old July 5th, 2013, 01:49 AM   #715
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Quote:
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U9, together with U7, was in fact the modern main line of West Berlin...

It has a 4 minutes headway, right?
U9 is really frequent in the rush hour and it's rarely interrupted, maybe once in a month, but U7 often falls out of the tact in the middle of rush hour, sometimes a few times a day and it's normal that train goes every 7-9 minutes which is completely unacepptable because it should go every 3-4 minutes, it mostly happens between Rathaus Spandau and Rohrdamm and than fun begins with the whole line delayed and overcrowded stations. This problem is mostly seen on Jungfernheide, Bismarckstraße, Berliner Straße, Mehringdamm, Hermannplatz and Rathaus Neukölln, it's not unusuall that you can enter only in the third train, I could not imagine the horror of eventually having branches on U7, when on the single stretch is mostly out of the tact.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:58 PM   #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
http://fahrinfo.vbb.de/bin/trainsear...1&clustering=1

From looking at timetable books, it looks like the U9 and U7 runs every 5 minutes most of the time (even during rush hour) and every 10 minutes later at night (and every 15 minutes throughout the night on Friday night/Saturday morning and Saturday night/Sunday morning).

How accurate are these timetables compared to the real running of the system?
U2, U7 and U9 run every 4 minutes during rush-hours, rest of lines every 5 minutes (except U55).

About the accuracy: The official contract between BVG and Berlin Senat says that more than 95% of U-Bahn-trains have to be accurate. There are U2 and U7, due to long running times, often missing this, maybe causing the loose of some percentage from Senat budget. But accuracy is overall even on those lines above 89%. Well I don´t know and tell about statistic tricks but in fact most of the U-Bahn-trains are (still) reliable and on time compared to S-Bahn-service, trams and in special busses.


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Old July 8th, 2013, 12:50 AM   #717
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Hm. It's really interesting but I Have found Buses to be the most reliable part of BVG.
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Old July 10th, 2013, 12:10 AM   #718
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Unter den Linden / Friedrichstraße













my own pics, ©Ludi

more informations in the german-SSC-Thread for the new U55
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Old July 10th, 2013, 12:15 AM   #719
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Good to see progress there!
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Old July 10th, 2013, 09:39 AM   #720
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Nice to see some progress on Unter den Linden! When I went to Berlin last year, I really thought it sucked that I had to take the U5, then change trains to go to Hauptbahnhof or Brandenburger Tor. I think that it's going to be a pretty nice line when it's complete.

Also, a couple of questions:

1. How's traffic flowing around Unter den Linden and Friedrichstraße? To be more specific, I was thinking about the itinerary of the 100 bus.
2. I was looking at how I can go from SXF to Kurfürstendamm and I wanted to get the S45, then change to the U9 at Bundesplatz, but, apparently (from what I've seen on VBB's website), the S45 terminates at Südkreuz. Was I wrong (that is, does the S45 usually terminate at Südkreuz) or is some kind of maintenance going on that causes the S45 to terminate earlier than usual?

I just realised I was actually wrong.

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