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Old March 4th, 2014, 07:34 PM   #841
flierfy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
There is a discussion in Amsterdam about the new wayfinding signs. The U-Bahn of Berlin was considered as an example for the multilingual signs use by someone.
Amsterdam needs multilingual signs as little as Berlin does. Sign your metros and trams in Dutch and make announcements in clear Dutch only and the whole world will find its way. Don't start to struggle with languages most Dutch know just to a certain extent if at all. Stick with your own language I advise you.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 11:20 PM   #842
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make announcements in clear Dutch only and the whole world will find its way. Don't start to struggle with languages most Dutch know just to a certain extent if at all. Stick with your own language I advise you.
When I was in China, I had some problems hearing what was said in Chinese. I did find my way though, but I can see this can become a problem for tourist that doesn't pay attention or are otherwise not able to recognize it.
If that calls for multilingual announcements I don't know.
I would probably opt for multilingual announcements at important stations only.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 11:39 PM   #843
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In Berlin you get English audio announcements only at main interchange points, at least on S-Bahn ("Passengers travelling to Schoenefeld Airport, please change here"). I don't remember about the same on U-Bahn.

On written signs, I'd translate at least the word for "exit", although most of the signs won't just say "exit" but instead specify the road you'll actually exit on (which can't be translated). The name of the road may not be immedately clear to one who doesn't have a clue about the language.
So, as Tunnel Owl said, it would be better to use the common exit sign beside the road name: not only you can't get wrong, but you also recognize immediately as road names which words accompany the concept of exit. All this, without the sign being clogged with bilingual or useless information.
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Old March 10th, 2014, 10:47 AM   #844
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Quote:
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In Berlin you get English audio announcements only at main interchange points, at least on S-Bahn ("Passengers travelling to Schoenefeld Airport, please change here"). I don't remember about the same on U-Bahn.
You get them on the U-Bahn, too. For instance, at Stadtmitte on U6 there's an announcement for the U2 line running to the Olympic Stadium and exhibition grounds.

Was quite amused when on one of the new(ish) ODEG trains someone tried to get into an occupied WC only for it to tell them in English "This facility is currently in use"!

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Old April 8th, 2014, 01:59 PM   #845
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I made a new schematic map of Berlin U-bahn / S-bahn network.

I tried to make it as symmetrical and harmonious as possible but still small enough to be printed on 20cmx20cm



You can see it in better resolution on

www.inat.fr/metro/berlin/
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Old April 8th, 2014, 02:59 PM   #846
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Nice map
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Old April 8th, 2014, 04:55 PM   #847
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@Suburbanist

Thank you. The official map is very good but some curves are welcome.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 06:09 PM   #848
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U5 construction update







my own pics, ©Ludi

More about this project here in the german SSC-Thread for this project.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 06:10 PM   #849
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I like A LOT this map because it introduces a fresh and clean style without reinventing the wheel. Knowing the city, I recognize the map is close to the real shape of the network (probably even closer than the official one!), and this is not an easy task while keeping a consistent and harmonious curved style.
Really a great work.

Try to insert also the trace of RE/RB trains (as a single thin red line, as today), because they have an importance in the city's urban mobility. Hbf is linked to many places just with Regio trains (Potsdamer Platz, Gesundbrunnen, Spandau...).

What I don't like is the color palette: the S-Bahn can be difficult to read (too light) and appears as a "secondary" network in the city, which is not.
Also, I would use the black or white dot for the stops based on the contrast with the line color, not divided in S- or U- (a stop is a stop, you don't need to show them differently).
And I would keep showing the zones based on the background and avoid the letters, so that you can clearly see the zone as an area with continuous borders.
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 07:42 PM   #850
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@Wilhem275

Thanks a lot

The color palette is the same for all my metro maps, metro lines are shown with plain colors while commuter lines are lighter. I agree that it may seem awkward in cities like Berlin or Paris where S-bahn and RER are used just like metro lines.

Same goes for the zone styling, Berlin has only 3 zones so a color overlay or a dotted boundary for zones may fit, but in cities like London or Madrid the map would be overcrowded.
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Old April 12th, 2014, 12:13 PM   #851
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S-Bahn network in 1980

This is how the S-Bahn network looked like in 1980.

The communist dictators had a right to operate S-Bahn services within West Berlin, but patronage was low due to boycotts.

EDIT: image is too big, check it out here-
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Old April 12th, 2014, 03:05 PM   #852
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I didn't know the line to Düppel was still active in 1980!
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old April 12th, 2014, 06:55 PM   #853
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I didn't know the line to Düppel was still active in 1980!
Zehlendorf -Düppel, Jungfernheide - Spandau and Spandau - Staaken have been in service until 1980. S-Bahn used former Reichsbahn-tracks easily equiped with third rail on those lines. Very austere service, mostly single-tracked. Those lines went in service around 1953, the same time S-Bahn reached Falkensee and Strausberg. The only "real" S-Bahn-line of West-Berlin still not in service until today is the Siemensbahn Jungfernheide - Gartenfeld which stopped operation in 1980,too.

The Düppel-Zehlendorf shuttle got an additional station Zehlendorf-Süd in 1975. It was a little side-platform suitable for 4-cars-only. The only building of this station was a little shelter.

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Old April 12th, 2014, 06:58 PM   #854
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Do they have plans to reactivate both services?
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Old April 22nd, 2014, 11:50 PM   #855
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Well, witnessing these cool collection of subway maps by zidar_fr (my respect!) I want to add my version of Berlins Grid
too. I made this in autumn last year:


BIGGER

My same intention was, of course, to make the plan as simple as possible and as easy readable as possible.
I think simplicity kann easily measured by the numbers of bends lines have in a plan.

The official plan has got a total of 86 bends. zidar_fr has still 70 and is not much of an improvement
in that regard. My version has just 43.

I started with the subway grid. When only showing these 9 U-Bahn lines the plan can be made stunningly simple:


The official plan has 37 bends for the subway lines. Mine has only 7 left. 5 lines out of 9 can be drawn
with no bend at all. When adding S-Bahn-lines I had to add some bends to the U-Bahn again, but in the end its
still much more simple than before (15 bends).

Also I think it is usefull to make U/S-Bahn easy distinguishable. In Berlin you can easily interchange between
U- and S-Bahn and you don't have to buy another ticket. However, its still 2 different means of transport.
Also the official colors of some lines are very near to others, like the dark blue of U8 and S3.

When looking at the official map its not easy to tell instanty if a dark blue line is the U8 or the S3.
You have to follow one of the lines to their end to tell.
zidar_fr noticed this too and made S-Bahn lines a bit lighter.
But I think this indicates a difference in quality, as if the U-Bahn would be more important and therefore
has darker and more saturated colors.

Thats why I choose slightly dotted lines for subway lines. That way each line can keep its original color.
This also correspondents with the common way of showing hidden (literaly: subway) lines in a architectural or technical plan.

Also I changed the way stations are shown. A normal station with no interchange keeps the color of its line,
like in the official plan. Stations were you can change though get white symbols that are bigger when there
is more lines meeting in that station. That way the more important stations like Zoologischer Garten or
Alexanderplatz are more obvious compared to lesser important ones like Stadtmitte or Spichernstraße.

One more thing I noticed in your (@zidar_fr) way of showing the area around Yorckstraße. It is indeed
quite tempting to just melt all Stations with "Yorckstraße" in its name to one station. That produces a
very elegant map. However, I made that mistake too in a former version of my plan, but had to change it,
because the 3 Stations (Yorckstraße U7, Yorckstraße Ss/S25 and Yorckstraße/Großgörschenstraße S1) are really
3 different stations and are separated by several hundred meters. Also the Großgörschenstraße should not
dissapear.
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Last edited by Wunderknabe; April 23rd, 2014 at 01:36 AM.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 05:11 PM   #856
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Do they have plans to reactivate both services?
Gartenfeld S-Bahn is gone forever. There was an idea to reinvent the service and extend the line towards the so called "Wasserstadt Oberhavel", a new real-estate development. But they didn´t kept any space free for this line over ground and thought about to surpass under Havel-river. This is completely unreal. Meanwhile DBAG sold some areas and near the Siemens-factory the try to demolish the old viaducts, having more space for buildings.

Düppel-Zehlendorf should have been part of the so called Stammbahn, rebuilding of some of Germanys oldest railway-alignments (1838) between Potsdam and Berlin. But there are no plans at all and to be honest, there is no real need in having an additional rail-link between Potsdam and Berlin.

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Old April 23rd, 2014, 05:51 PM   #857
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The Siemensbahn area is nice, there are some interesting viaducts.
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

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Old April 23rd, 2014, 10:25 PM   #858
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The Siemensbahn area is nice, there are some interesting viaducts.
Yes, I like them, too. They look very modern compared to the older elevated parts of U1 and U2. Also stations Wernerwerk and Siemensstadt are very spacious. The trouble with that line was, that it has been fitted overground within an already built up area in the 20s. The main axis of Siemensstadt is Nonnendammallee, where U7 is. The U-Bahn project is even older than the S-Bahn is. After 1961 Siemens mainly left Berlin and it was a real workers rail without significant amount of passengers at other times. Looks like every bigger town has it´s abandoned urban rail alignments like Londons Alexandra palace branch e. g.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 06:43 AM   #859
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So much information and nice photos in this thread!
I visited Berlin last January for the first time and it was simply amazing! I've always read about the History of Berlin and the years it was divided, so I finally got to check it out for my self and wasn't disappointed.I got there and went all the way from Schonefeld to Anhalter Banhof (Which became my favorite station because of the solitude and silence inside it). For 3 days I rode the lines around the city, seeing those interesting stations and sights. Bornholmer Strasse really got to me, just to think that the wall was right there, ahead of the tracks... I once read a non-fiction book called Stasiland, written by Anna Funder where one of the main characters flees the DDR by jumping off a train in Bornholmerstr.
Another night we went to Warschauer Str. to check out on the clubs and I got to see the style of that area: a lot of grafitti on those old looking and socialist houses. I loved it!
Next time I go to Berlin I'm going to hire a guide so he can show me around better and tell me more about Berlin during the Wall Era
Also, one day I want to have a transportation network as dense as Berlin down here in my city, this would make things so much easier.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 06:37 PM   #860
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@Wunderknabe

Nice work of simplification of the lines, maybe too much, reminds me of Harry Beck's intent for the Paris map simplifying the lines to the absolute minimum.

It isn't easy to deal with Berlin since the official BVG map is one of the best in the world, I guess there has to be a compromise between simplification and geography in order to make a map readable AND memorizable.
Some simplification is necessary to get easy to memorize shapes but some geography is necessary too to organize the relation of one line to the other and for people to recognize the shape of the city and orientate.
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