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Old April 26th, 2014, 07:03 PM   #861
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Construction of U5 stations, all printscreened from BVG's webcams - Unter den Linden station:



Museumsinsel station:



Berliner Rathaus station:



And the shaft at Marx-Engels-Forum:

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Old April 26th, 2014, 07:06 PM   #862
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Old April 26th, 2014, 07:10 PM   #863
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Are they actively planning for an extension of U5 between Hbf. and Moabit and later Tegel?
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Old April 26th, 2014, 07:52 PM   #864
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In a word: no. The station boxes were constructed ready for this at Turmstraße and Jungfernheide but with Berlin's finances the way they are, there's no chance realistically that the extension will be built any time soon. In any case much of the extension's raison d'etre is disappearing due to the closure of Tegel Airport.

In recent years there's started to be talk of extending tramlines along a similar alignment. Tram extensions are likely to be the only form of transport enhancement for the foreseeable future.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 08:04 PM   #865
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They could at least extend the line to Moabit district then (with stations Rothenauwer Straße and Turmstraße)
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Old April 26th, 2014, 10:28 PM   #866
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If this were the 70s and Berlin were still getting large subsidies, no doubt they would. But the plan is for a tram extension for this stretch. The currently under construction section from Nordbahnhof to Hauptbahnhof will be extended to Turmstraße, probably along Alt-Moabit. The city government is actively developing this at the moment, and the full proposals should be made public sometime this summer. Which has pretty much sealed the fate of the U5 extension, sadly.

Beyond Turmstraße there's a long term plan to extend trams to Ernst-Reuter-Platz and further into City-West.
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Old April 27th, 2014, 03:39 AM   #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walky88 View Post
If this were the 70s and Berlin were still getting large subsidies, no doubt they would. But the plan is for a tram extension for this stretch. The currently under construction section from Nordbahnhof to Hauptbahnhof will be extended to Turmstraße, probably along Alt-Moabit. The city government is actively developing this at the moment, and the full proposals should be made public sometime this summer. Which has pretty much sealed the fate of the U5 extension, sadly.

Beyond Turmstraße there's a long term plan to extend trams to Ernst-Reuter-Platz and further into City-West.
Berlin is a world-class city, the capital of the 4th largest economy in the World. It shouldn't settle for second-class transportation (trams), but get federal funds to make it better in terms of infrastructure.

Trams do not suit Berlin much. The trams #2 and specially #4 are full and they cannot fit much more vehicles on the tracks without severely disrupting traffic.

Maybe they could consider elevated light rail or, better yet, monorail for Berlin
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Old April 27th, 2014, 03:56 AM   #868
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I was going to debate, but this is wrong on so many levels I don't know what to begin with...
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Old June 12th, 2014, 03:11 PM   #869
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

Production underway on new Berlin U-Bahn trains
Thursday, June 12, 2014



BERLIN Transport (BVG) confirmed on June 10 that Stadler Pankow has completed the production of bodyshells for the first of a new-generation of trains for the city's narrow profile U-Bahn lines.

Two pre-series type 1K sets will be delivered to BVG next year under a contract which includes an option for 34 production trains for delivery from 2017 onwards. "We will be carrying out extensive tests in everyday conditions in order to prove that the trains meet the high demands of regular service on the U-Bahn," says Stadler Pankow CEO Mr Michael Daum. "By working in close co-operation with BVG we have developedmodern and innovative vehicles that offer the people of Berlin and visitors to the city more comfort."

Over the next few weeks bodyshells for the pre-series second train will be fabricted at Stadler Pankow's Reinickendorf plant near Berlin.

The new trains are intended to replace the A3L71 fleet, which dates back to 1972-73. Each 51.6m-long four-car set will accommodate 330 passengers and seat 80, with full-width gangways and level boarding to aid accessibility.

The vehicles will be unusual in that they will feature a slightly curved bodyshell. This so-called "ballooning" will allow interior space to be optimised within the constraints of the narrow-profile tunnels. This provides a maximum width of 2.4m, 10cm wider than BVG's existing narrow-profile vehicles
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Old June 12th, 2014, 03:39 PM   #870
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The new width is very interesting. Each car is 12.9 m long, I wonder if they have Jacobs bogies or indipendent ones (I guess the latter).

EDIT: indipendent bogies.
http://www.stadlerrail.com/media/upl...-BVG_E_web.pdf
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Old June 12th, 2014, 04:02 PM   #871
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I didn't know Stadler had a factory in Berlin.
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Old June 13th, 2014, 04:18 AM   #872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
The new width is very interesting. Each car is 12.9 m long, I wonder if they have Jacobs bogies or indipendent ones (I guess the latter).

EDIT: indipendent bogies.
http://www.stadlerrail.com/media/upl...-BVG_E_web.pdf
That's odd. Why would such short carriages each need an independent set of bogies? That would add unnecessary weight...
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Old June 13th, 2014, 05:26 AM   #873
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That's the price to pay for the larger width. With Jacobs bogies the wheelbase of each car would be much longer (roughly as long as the car itself), and they would hit the tunnels' walls.

This image explains it pretty well: the shadow under the train is the area it would actually occupy if the bogies were under its extremities (needing much more room on its sides).

http://users.skynet.be/maarten.steurbaut/RailTracks.htm

Also, with indipendet bogies, the bogies lie exactly under doors 1 and 3, keeping them as close as possible to the platform of curved stations; and the central one, as well, is much closer than it would be if the car had a longer wheelbase.

These vehicles are usually not very heavy, but there may be also a problem with excessive axle load with Jacobs bogies (the structures are very old).
Anyway, more wheels means better traction, which is very important for this kind of train.

I looked for the old A3 series data, and the cars were 2.3 m wide and even a bit shorter! So I guess how they actually fitted the larger width in the same gauge.

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I didn't know Stadler had a factory in Berlin.
Stadel Pankow GmbH is actually a separate company, within the Stadler group (it remained so for tax reasons, IIRC).

Stadler Pankow was a joint venture with AdTranz, and when AdTranz was acquired by Bombardier the EU Antitrust obliged it to sell the plant to Stadler (and Bombardier concentrated on Hennigsdorf). The RS-1 RegioShuttle was first developed by AdTranz and today is a Stadler product.

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/portra...ions/pankow-d/

In August 2000 Bombardier Inc. announced that it was to buy Adtranz for $711million,[note 4] considered to be a low price.[22] The sale was cleared by the European Union in April 2001; amongst the guarantees required to be made by Bombardier was that it would divest and license its product range in the regional and tram sectors to Stadler Rail due to the large German market share of the new group in those areas, making Stadler a viable independent company.[23] The takeover came into legal effect on 1 May 2001 with a final price of $725million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adtranz

The plant actually dates back to the beginning of 20th century, first with Bergmann, then with the VEB Bergmann-Borsig, then ABB, which still uses some of the structures in the area.
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Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

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Last edited by Wilhem275; June 13th, 2014 at 05:52 AM.
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Old June 13th, 2014, 05:18 PM   #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
This image explains it pretty well: the shadow under the train is the area it would actually occupy if the bogies were under its extremities (needing much more room on its sides).

http://users.skynet.be/maarten.steurbaut/RailTracks.htm

The plant actually dates back to the beginning of 20th century, first with Bergmann, then with the VEB Bergmann-Borsig, then ABB, which still uses some of the structures in the area.
Nice. The new DT5-train in Hamburg is articulated and therefore has no Jacobs-bogies, as it was common for decades. It was not possible to have articulated cars with reasonable length and Jacobs-bogies, the cars would have to be only 10 m long then. If it comes to very sharp curves it´s better to seperate bogies from the articulation like it is done with the majority of new trams. Berlin and Hamburg trains require to cope with radius of 74 m or 60 m in passenger-service, around 50 m in depot.

Stadler also uses parts of former DWM aka Waggon-Union plant in Reinickendorf. The assembly of Ik-trains will take part in Hohenschönhausen-plant which has no train-history at all.

Kind regards
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Old June 13th, 2014, 05:33 PM   #875
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Quote:
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I was going to debate, but this is wrong on so many levels I don't know what to begin with...
To keep it short. If it would be Vienna, we would have tram and U-Bahn to Moabit. Extension of U5 to Moabit would be pretty useful and the closure of TXL willl make this area suitable for built additional housings as Berlins population is estimated to grow about 400.000 people until 2030. But this is not Munich or Vienna and it´s not only money, it´s stupid politicians avoiding any word about metro-extension.

To be fair, in most other german cities like Cologne or Munich costs are shared between state/federal state and community in parts like 60/30/10. Berlin has no federal state like Bavaria or NRW to support this, so it´s left with 40% alone. Only U5-extension to Hauptbahnhof is payed from unity-contract with state-part of 80% as an exception of the rule.

Tram to Moabit would be useful, if it would be like the former line 3, serving western parts of Moabit, TU (technical university), Ernst-Reuter-Platz to Zoo.

Kind regards
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Old July 26th, 2014, 04:00 PM   #876
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Type A3L71 on U1 at Möckernbrücke along the Landwehrkanal river:


U1 658 Berlin metro train departing Möckernbrücke station for Gleisdreieck station by turner.adam on Flickr

Historic A1 train at Schlesisches Tor:


Historischer A1 Zug (1926) bei Schlesisches Tor by UndergroundBerlin on Flickr
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Old July 28th, 2014, 03:35 PM   #877
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

DB to operate Berlin S-Bahn ring until 2023
Monday, July 28, 2014



Berlin-Brandenburg Transport Authority (VBB) has published a pre-information notice in the Official Journal of the European Union for the direct award of an interim contract to operate the ring line of the Berlin S-Bahn to DB Regio subsidiary S-Bahn Berlin.

The contract starts in December 2017 and covers the operation of around 9.4 million train-km on the following routes:
  • S8 (Hohen Neuendorf-Grünau-Zeuthen) until August 2022
  • S 46 (Main station-Königs Wusterhausen) until May 2022
  • S 47 (Spindlersfeld-Tempelhof/Südkreuz- Bundesplatz) until November 2022
  • S41/S42 Ring Südkreuz-Südkreuz (Stammzuggruppen) until 17 February 2023
  • S41/S42 Ring Südkreuz-Südkreuz (Tageszuggruppen) until August 2023
The contract includes an option for an extension.

VBB originally intended to award a 15-year contract for the operation of these lines starting in 2017, which would include the introduction of new rolling stock. However, because of the complexity of procuring and commissioning a large new fleet of specially-designed trains for a technically-unique network, the Berlin Senate decided that it would not be feasible for bidders to introduce the new EMUs by 2017 and decided instead to award an interim contract to the incumbent operator. This will allow time for a gradual transition to the new fleet.

A prototype train is due to be delivered in 2019 and following trials the new trains are expected to enter service on Line S47 by November 2020. This means that the 30-year-old class 480 sets, which were due to be withdrawn in 2017, will now remain in service into the 2020s.

As a stopgap measure, up to €160m will now be spent on modernisation of the existing class 480 and 485 sets used on the ring line pending the delivery of new trains.
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Old July 28th, 2014, 04:16 PM   #878
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Other than third-rail, what is the uniqueness of Berlin Stadbahn fleet requirements?
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Old July 28th, 2014, 05:04 PM   #879
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Other than third-rail, what is the uniqueness of Berlin Stadbahn fleet requirements?
Third rail and its unusual voltage (800v dc). It's not just a case of adding third rail shoes to other German trains.

By the way, the S-Bahn has never been a 'Stadtbahn'. It was originally the 'Stadtschnellbahn' (urban rapid rail), but obviously SS has other connotations in Germany. In Germany 'Stadtbahn' is mainly used to describe light rail systems that combine underground metro sections with trams.
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Old July 28th, 2014, 07:31 PM   #880
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Don't forget the safety system! DB Netze is replacing the ancient trigger based system (a lever moves closer to the power rail when a signal is red, triggering an emergency stop when it is passed) with something more modern: ZBS. ZBS is derived of ETCS Level 1 but is incompatible as it uses different data telegrams.

ZBS is a Siemens proprietary system that is used nowhere else in the world.
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