BERLIN | Public Transport - Page 6

nr23Derek · September 12th, 2009, 08:39 PM

Hi - my first post to Skyscraper city so be gentle.

I haven't been to Berlin since 1996 (for a Love Parade actually), I used to go a lot when it had it's wall back in the 80's. Back then the S-Bahn was a very neglected system, I seem to think it was run by the GDR (the old East Berlin) and only one or two lines were still running in the western section and there were lots of derelict stations. The trains then looked much the same as now, but had hard wooden seats.

On my first visit in 1981 we took an S bahn from Wannsee into the city and were told off by some West Berlin friends for using it, Westerners only used the U-bahn back then.

Anyway, just showing me age.

Derek

LtBk · September 13th, 2009, 06:56 AM

Hoosier is one of those wannabe leftists, so don't take his posts seriously Justme.

rheintram · September 14th, 2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nr23Derek

On my first visit in 1981 we took an S bahn from Wannsee into the city and were told off by some West Berlin friends for using it, Westerners only used the U-bahn back then.

hey derek! Actually your story is quite interesting. Do you happen to have some photos from those days?

nr23Derek · September 14th, 2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rheintram

hey derek! Actually your story is quite interesting. Do you happen to have some photos from those days?

Very few I'm afraid and most of what I did take was of the wall I think but I'll have a dig through the box. Berlin used to be a very special place when it had its wall, I must go back sometime to see what's left, but somehow I fear it's become just another city - although for all our sakes it's probably a good thing!

Derek

DiggerD21 · September 14th, 2009, 07:15 PM

No, Berlin hasn't become to "just another city". There is still a mental divide in east and west among many original Berliners. And it is probably the only capital in Europe where it is cheaper to live than in other major cities of the country. That attracts a lot of the arts and subcultural scene, which makes Berlin still special today, just in a positive context.

rheintram · September 15th, 2009, 02:50 AM

Well on the other hand I think its a shame how Berlin treated its 'heritage'. No doubt the wall was unwanted, but demolishing it like that - except for a short section somewhere off the beaten track - was just wrong. Same goes for destroying "Palast der Republik". A fake checkpoint charlie (yes the original one was demolished too of course) can't make up for that

City-Kelle · September 15th, 2009, 10:49 AM

Personally I think that there are enough pieces of the Wall and Berlin in general made a big step forward in the right way. Its edginess and vibrant scene is a vast attraction for people around the world.

city_thing · September 15th, 2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nr23Derek

Hi - my first post to Skyscraper city so be gentle.

I haven't been to Berlin since 1996 (for a Love Parade actually), I used to go a lot when it had it's wall back in the 80's. Back then the S-Bahn was a very neglected system, I seem to think it was run by the GDR (the old East Berlin) and only one or two lines were still running in the western section and there were lots of derelict stations. The trains then looked much the same as now, but had hard wooden seats.

On my first visit in 1981 we took an S bahn from Wannsee into the city and were told off by some West Berlin friends for using it, Westerners only used the U-bahn back then.

Anyway, just showing me age.

Derek

You are cooler than you'll ever know.

I wish I'd been able to visit Berlin in the 80s. I bet you went to Manchester in the 80s and saw early New Order concerts too, didn't you? Lucky bastard.

GRRR SO JEALOUS!

City-Kelle · September 15th, 2009, 04:19 PM

Me too. I love the 80s.

sarflonlad · September 15th, 2009, 09:16 PM

Favourite city on the continent... and the s-bahn is integral to that.

Long live my memories of Berlin - and those to come in the future!

Baron Hirsch · September 16th, 2009, 11:44 AM

Funny, none of you seems to know what is going on with the S-Bahn these recent months....

Berlin S-Bahn debacle may cost Deutsche Bahn dearly

Published: 10 Sep 09 14:30 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090910-21845.html

Berlin’s mayor sharply criticised the operators of the city’s crippled S-Bahn transport system on Thursday amid reports Deutsche Bahn faces losses of several hundred million euros for the botched commuter rail service.

After another safety scandal left just 25 percent of the fleet in service this week on top of an already reduced schedule, the Berlin city government said it will give the company just a €5 million of its usual €20-million monthly payment in September.

“The privatisation was obviously taken too seriously here,” Berlin Mayor Klaus Wowereit told broadcaster ZDF on Thursday morning, referencing Deutsche Bahn's plans to go public before the financial crisis hit.

Wowereit also said the company had been “trimmed for profit” and scandalously lost sight of safety concerns at its subsidiaries like the S-Bahn.

Parliamentary liaison to the Transportation Ministry Achim Großmann divulged that he asked a recent board meeting when “circumstances appropriate to western civilisation would again prevail.”

Delays and reduced service began on July 20 to inspect faulty train axles after a derailment. Service wasn’t expected to return to normal until December when this week the company announced a problem with brakes that needed immediate attention – cutting service again by 75 percent.

Meanwhile the Financial Times Deutschland reported that the continued incompetence will likely cost Deutsche Bahn a “few hundred million euros.”

The paper also alleged it had gathered evidence that S-Bahn workers had intentionally filled out safety forms incorrectly to say that brake parts had been replaced, even though they had not actually been repaired.

The debacle will likely tear a dangerous hole into Deutsche Bahn head Rüdiger Grube’s 2009 budget, in addition to destroying his political credibility, the paper said.

Berlin state prosecutors are also investigating S-Bahn executives over the mismanagement that led to the chaos. S-Bahn boss Tobias Heinemann and other members of the company’s executive board were accused of consistently ignoring train maintenance schedules and allowing damaged wagons to return to service unrepaired. He and three others were replaced on July 2.

rheintram · September 17th, 2009, 12:30 AM

The thing with Berlin's S-Bahn is that it's a myth. And people tend to forget the daily operational side of that 'myth'. Currently it's truely a debacle and it will probably hurt the system a lot.

How are the Berliner's coping these days? Can U-Bahn and regional trains cope with all the extra passengers?

DiggerD21 · September 17th, 2009, 12:46 AM

Those who have a car, simply use it more extensively. The others use alternative routes or their bikes.

flierfy · September 17th, 2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rheintram

The thing with Berlin's S-Bahn is that it's a myth. And people tend to forget the daily operational side of that 'myth'. Currently it's truely a debacle and it will probably hurt the system a lot.

The S-Bahn isn't a myth. It's pretty real and essential to the city which makes it so unbearable to cope without it.

nr23Derek · September 19th, 2009, 05:12 PM

Seeing as rheintram asked, a quick dig into the archive box came up with a video I shot in 1990 when I went over to Berlin for the Pink Floyd Wall concert and to have a look at what was left of the wall. The vid is mostly about east Berlin and the wall, but does include some shots of the S Bahn.

Anyhow, I've started a thread about the wall because they don't really belong here - see here

Derek

Schliemann · October 21st, 2009, 04:03 PM

The plan is to make a connecting station between the U5 and the U6 at Unter den Linden. My question is, what will happen to the U6 station at Französische Straße? Will it be closed and a totally new station be build, or will it merely change names and a connecting tunnel constructed to the U5? Although not at Unter den Linden, the station is pretty close to it. Seems like a waist of money to build a new station 300 meters north of the old one.

Schliemann · October 21st, 2009, 04:46 PM

And... In the Technikmuseum in Berlin I saw a model of the Potsdamer Platz station. I also read on Wikipedia that there are actually three U-bahn platforms there, although only one is in use. I would really like to see a plan drawing of these platforms. So if someone knows where i could find it whether its on the internet or not, that would really make my day.

micro · October 21st, 2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schliemann

The plan is to make a connecting station between the U5 and the U6 at Unter den Linden. My question is, what will happen to the U6 station at Französische Straße? Will it be closed and a totally new station be build, or will it merely change names and a connecting tunnel constructed to the U5? Although not at Unter den Linden, the station is pretty close to it. Seems like a waist of money to build a new station 300 meters north of the old one.

The station will be moved to the new location.

flierfy · October 22nd, 2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schliemann

And... In the Technikmuseum in Berlin I saw a model of the Potsdamer Platz station. I also read on Wikipedia that there are actually three U-bahn platforms there, although only one is in use. I would really like to see a plan drawing of these platforms. So if someone knows where i could find it whether its on the internet or not, that would really make my day.

http://www.nordsued-s-bahn.de/bildbox/12.jpg
This is a drawing of the station in the late 1930s. The only thing that has been added since is the mainline station just west of the S-Bahn.

Schliemann · October 25th, 2009, 05:13 AM

Thank you for that flierfy. It reminds me that i need to pick up a copy of that book.

As i thought, there is a huge underground structure present there, with only parts being used. The east-west tracks shown on that maps are (i assume) tracks that would be used for the hypothetical U10. That leaves me with the question of how much of that line has actually been constructed. Had the construction for that line already started at the time, or was it only a preparation?

Secondly. The underground link between the S-Bahn and the U2. Does it exist? And this lobby from which it comes from. Where is that, and did it have a specific purpose? Like a shopping area

September 19th, 2009, 05:12 PM	#115
nr23Derek Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Norwich Posts: 143 Likes (Received): 36	Seeing as rheintram asked, a quick dig into the archive box came up with a video I shot in 1990 when I went over to Berlin for the Pink Floyd Wall concert and to have a look at what was left of the wall. The vid is mostly about east Berlin and the wall, but does include some shots of the S Bahn. Anyhow, I've started a thread about the wall because they don't really belong here - see here Derek Last edited by nr23Derek; September 19th, 2009 at 05:35 PM.

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September 12th, 2009, 08:39 PM	#101
nr23Derek Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Norwich Posts: 143 Likes (Received): 36	Hi - my first post to Skyscraper city so be gentle. I haven't been to Berlin since 1996 (for a Love Parade actually), I used to go a lot when it had it's wall back in the 80's. Back then the S-Bahn was a very neglected system, I seem to think it was run by the GDR (the old East Berlin) and only one or two lines were still running in the western section and there were lots of derelict stations. The trains then looked much the same as now, but had hard wooden seats. On my first visit in 1981 we took an S bahn from Wannsee into the city and were told off by some West Berlin friends for using it, Westerners only used the U-bahn back then. Anyway, just showing me age. Derek

September 13th, 2009, 06:56 AM	#102
LtBk Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Lutherville-Timonium Posts: 2,281 Likes (Received): 65	Hoosier is one of those wannabe leftists, so don't take his posts seriously Justme.

September 14th, 2009, 07:15 PM	#105
DiggerD21 spaghetti polonaise Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Hamburg, Wroclaw Posts: 2,470 Likes (Received): 62	No, Berlin hasn't become to "just another city". There is still a mental divide in east and west among many original Berliners. And it is probably the only capital in Europe where it is cheaper to live than in other major cities of the country. That attracts a lot of the arts and subcultural scene, which makes Berlin still special today, just in a positive context.

September 15th, 2009, 02:50 AM	#106
rheintram yeah, whatever Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 2,439 Likes (Received): 13	Well on the other hand I think its a shame how Berlin treated its 'heritage'. No doubt the wall was unwanted, but demolishing it like that - except for a short section somewhere off the beaten track - was just wrong. Same goes for destroying "Palast der Republik". A fake checkpoint charlie (yes the original one was demolished too of course) can't make up for that

September 15th, 2009, 10:49 AM	#107
City-Kelle Kelle is into cities. Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 51 Likes (Received): 0	Personally I think that there are enough pieces of the Wall and Berlin in general made a big step forward in the right way. Its edginess and vibrant scene is a vast attraction for people around the world.

September 15th, 2009, 04:19 PM	#109
City-Kelle Kelle is into cities. Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 51 Likes (Received): 0	Me too. I love the 80s.

September 15th, 2009, 09:16 PM	#110
sarflonlad Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,134 Likes (Received): 10	Favourite city on the continent... and the s-bahn is integral to that. Long live my memories of Berlin - and those to come in the future!

September 16th, 2009, 11:44 AM	#111
Baron Hirsch Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Istanbul/Constantinople Posts: 679 Likes (Received): 38	Funny, none of you seems to know what is going on with the S-Bahn these recent months.... Berlin S-Bahn debacle may cost Deutsche Bahn dearly Published: 10 Sep 09 14:30 CET Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090910-21845.html Berlin’s mayor sharply criticised the operators of the city’s crippled S-Bahn transport system on Thursday amid reports Deutsche Bahn faces losses of several hundred million euros for the botched commuter rail service. After another safety scandal left just 25 percent of the fleet in service this week on top of an already reduced schedule, the Berlin city government said it will give the company just a €5 million of its usual €20-million monthly payment in September. “The privatisation was obviously taken too seriously here,” Berlin Mayor Klaus Wowereit told broadcaster ZDF on Thursday morning, referencing Deutsche Bahn's plans to go public before the financial crisis hit. Wowereit also said the company had been “trimmed for profit” and scandalously lost sight of safety concerns at its subsidiaries like the S-Bahn. Parliamentary liaison to the Transportation Ministry Achim Großmann divulged that he asked a recent board meeting when “circumstances appropriate to western civilisation would again prevail.” Delays and reduced service began on July 20 to inspect faulty train axles after a derailment. Service wasn’t expected to return to normal until December when this week the company announced a problem with brakes that needed immediate attention – cutting service again by 75 percent. Meanwhile the Financial Times Deutschland reported that the continued incompetence will likely cost Deutsche Bahn a “few hundred million euros.” The paper also alleged it had gathered evidence that S-Bahn workers had intentionally filled out safety forms incorrectly to say that brake parts had been replaced, even though they had not actually been repaired. The debacle will likely tear a dangerous hole into Deutsche Bahn head Rüdiger Grube’s 2009 budget, in addition to destroying his political credibility, the paper said. Berlin state prosecutors are also investigating S-Bahn executives over the mismanagement that led to the chaos. S-Bahn boss Tobias Heinemann and other members of the company’s executive board were accused of consistently ignoring train maintenance schedules and allowing damaged wagons to return to service unrepaired. He and three others were replaced on July 2.

September 17th, 2009, 12:30 AM	#112
rheintram yeah, whatever Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 2,439 Likes (Received): 13	The thing with Berlin's S-Bahn is that it's a myth. And people tend to forget the daily operational side of that 'myth'. Currently it's truely a debacle and it will probably hurt the system a lot. How are the Berliner's coping these days? Can U-Bahn and regional trains cope with all the extra passengers?

September 17th, 2009, 12:46 AM	#113
DiggerD21 spaghetti polonaise Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Hamburg, Wroclaw Posts: 2,470 Likes (Received): 62	Those who have a car, simply use it more extensively. The others use alternative routes or their bikes.

October 21st, 2009, 04:03 PM	#116
Schliemann Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 62 Likes (Received): 0	The plan is to make a connecting station between the U5 and the U6 at Unter den Linden. My question is, what will happen to the U6 station at Französische Straße? Will it be closed and a totally new station be build, or will it merely change names and a connecting tunnel constructed to the U5? Although not at Unter den Linden, the station is pretty close to it. Seems like a waist of money to build a new station 300 meters north of the old one.

October 21st, 2009, 04:46 PM	#117
Schliemann Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 62 Likes (Received): 0	And... In the Technikmuseum in Berlin I saw a model of the Potsdamer Platz station. I also read on Wikipedia that there are actually three U-bahn platforms there, although only one is in use. I would really like to see a plan drawing of these platforms. So if someone knows where i could find it whether its on the internet or not, that would really make my day.

October 25th, 2009, 05:13 AM	#120
Schliemann Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 62 Likes (Received): 0	Thank you for that flierfy. It reminds me that i need to pick up a copy of that book. As i thought, there is a huge underground structure present there, with only parts being used. The east-west tracks shown on that maps are (i assume) tracks that would be used for the hypothetical U10. That leaves me with the question of how much of that line has actually been constructed. Had the construction for that line already started at the time, or was it only a preparation? Secondly. The underground link between the S-Bahn and the U2. Does it exist? And this lobby from which it comes from. Where is that, and did it have a specific purpose? Like a shopping area