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Old November 16th, 2016, 04:25 PM   #1241
tunnel owl
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"But not for very long anymore, thank god. One of the biggest mistakes ever in the short history of this small network."

Yes indeed, If it comes to wheelchair accessability those solutions turn out to be horror. So, small profile trains in Berlin have to be put higher to manage platform height. There are plenty of other things to be kept in mind beside the sideboards. The devil is in the details. It will take one week to turn small into big or vice versa in depot.
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Old November 16th, 2016, 06:08 PM   #1242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnel owl View Post
Using small-profile trains on big Profile lines is not very new. Madrid did this for a certain period. Amsterdam does it and Berlin two times long ago in the past. Athenes and also Pyongyang used east Berlin G-type rolling stock
NYC did it in the past as well.
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Old November 16th, 2016, 08:43 PM   #1243
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NYC did it in the past as well.
Wasn´t sure about this, thanks. This leads to an interesting question which cities did this in past and present. What about Buones Aires using Nagoya-trains e. g.?
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Old November 17th, 2016, 07:34 PM   #1244
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Lol I've been using it for years. It's from a picture of an S-Bahn sign I downloaded.
Isn't that a symbol of joy and freedom?

I have some flimsy memory of having taken that photo 9-10 years ago during one of my Berlin trips, but to be fairly honest I may be confusing it with a similar subject.

It would be nice to find a list of stations where these neon signs are still in use. I know there's one in the Technikmuseum, but it has a square white border.
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Old November 17th, 2016, 07:58 PM   #1245
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Fares in Berlin are too low IMHO. If the fares (especially the subscription passes) were more costly, they'd have more money to buy rolling stock.
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Old November 17th, 2016, 08:05 PM   #1246
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Low fares are a factor which attracts more passengers though, which might otherwise choose the car - adding to the congestion, CO2 emission, and increasing the likelyhood of a pedestrian or cyclist getting involved in an accident.
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Old November 18th, 2016, 01:20 PM   #1247
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Berlin train-problem has nothing to do with low fares. Price for AB 2h-ticket is 2,80 Euro next year. This is not cheap, even compared to other (richer) german cities with metro or light-rail. Every light-rail or metro in Germany has to buy trains with financial help of the community, with credits or a mixture of both. Fares are not enough.

Main reason for the situation is that Berlin-County went into financial crisis in 2001: Since than Berlin has a communal doubt of about 60.000.000.000 Euros for 3,5 Mill. inhabitants. This is similar to e. g. Greece and even the reasons for having this huge debt is similar to Greece (collapsing credits and banks leaving the losses at the citizen).

To Keep it short: Since 2001 Berlin is bankrupt and so nearly no money went into investition, BVG is a Berlin-owned company, rien ne vas plus.
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Old November 18th, 2016, 02:34 PM   #1248
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Why Berlin bankrupted back in 2001? If someone has some article about that, please, send it to me by pm.
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Old November 18th, 2016, 02:40 PM   #1249
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I tend to discount single-fares because, for commuters or people who use transportation often, what really counts are the price of subscriptions.
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Old November 19th, 2016, 02:44 AM   #1250
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Quote:
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I tend to discount single-fares because, for commuters or people who use transportation often, what really counts are the price of subscriptions.
I see locals buying single tickets (especially 4-ticket packages) in Berlin very often...

I do agree though, the bulk of their ticket sales is made up of weekly/monthly/annual tickets and those can be relatively cheap if the person uses public transportation more than twice a day.
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Old November 19th, 2016, 03:02 AM   #1251
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I see locals buying single tickets (especially 4-ticket packages) in Berlin very often...

I do agree though, the bulk of their ticket sales is made up of weekly/monthly/annual tickets and those can be relatively cheap if the person uses public transportation more than twice a day.
Tourists or the very occasional user should not be the major concern in terms of public transportation pricing.

AB annual subscription costs just €761. That comes at just € 1.22 per trip for someone who makes, on average, 12 trips (one-way) per week. It is not negligible, but - for Berlin incomes - a very good bargain.
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Old November 21st, 2016, 08:52 PM   #1252
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Why Berlin bankrupted back in 2001? If someone has some article about that, please, send it to me by pm.
Take this one:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_Bankenskandal

The only translation is in swedish, whatever this means

Kind regards
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Old November 21st, 2016, 08:58 PM   #1253
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AB annual subscription costs just €761. That comes at just € 1.22 per trip for someone who makes, on average, 12 trips (one-way) per week. It is not negligible, but - for Berlin incomes - a very good bargain.
Yes, but still not worth to mention as BVG needs 3 Billions of Euros to spend into modernization of tram and metro fleet until 2032.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 04:54 PM   #1254
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=526

Berlin plans major light rail expansion
Thursday, December 01, 2016



THE recently-elected Berlin City "Red-Red-Green" coalition government comprising the SPD or Social Democrats, "Linke" party and the Greens has concluded a wide-ranging coalition agreement covering all aspects of the city's government, including a major expansion of the tram network

BerlinStrategie 2030 sets ambitious targets for the construction of new light rail infrastructure, expansion of cycling and pedestrian options, cancelling some road building schemes, a city-wide 30km/h speed limit, and removal of most traffic from Unter den Linden in central Berlin

...
Details of rail projects in Berlin is in the link
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:18 PM   #1255
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No expansion of U-Bahn?
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:43 PM   #1256
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No expansion of U-Bahn?
No, unfortunately. It´s because of U-Bahn is always seen as to expensive in Berlin. Every other city in Europe expand every systems (tram, metro, urbanrail) if they have so. But let´s wait. At the moment this city is ruled by a bunch of left-winged hardliners without competence but with a lot of ideology.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:47 PM   #1257
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Not that all those tram extensions come for free...
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:50 PM   #1258
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Before the elections they promised to expand U-and S-Bahn in case of being elected.
Just after that they announced having no money for that (in fact, Berlin has huge debts) and expanding tram network instead.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 08:59 PM   #1259
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Not that all those tram extensions come for free...
Most likely and uselful are that tram-projects foreseen for a long time:

1) Closing gap between Adlershof and Schöneweide including a new depot (substitution of more than 100 year olf Köpenick and Niederschöneweide-depot)

2) Rerouting of line 21 bringing it near to Ostkreuz. There is a very strong opposition against that

3) Rerouting and double-tracking tram in Mahlsdorf near S-Bahnstation

4) Extension from Hauptbahnhof to Turmstraße. This one is stupid as it makes the once planned U5-extension nearly impossible.

At the moment the political opposition probably will defend the Berlin-county budget-plan by law as all those pretty ideas (not only tram-projects) are based on very peciuliar, if not to say irregular financing (Schattenhaushalt in german) which already caused trouble with Eurostat in Luxemburg. EU says that financing like this is not allowed in EU-countries and Germany was one of the countries which wanted it that way because Greece tried the same some years before
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Old December 1st, 2016, 10:04 PM   #1260
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2) Rerouting of line 21 bringing it near to Ostkreuz. There is a very strong opposition against that
How different would it be? Line 21 already has two stops at Neue Bahnhofstraße and Marktstraße which are fairly close to Ostkreuz. Is this rerouting supposed to change the route so that it uses either Sonntag- or Simplonstraße?
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