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Old June 18th, 2009, 11:17 PM   #621
Onn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanamerican View Post
guys, "voted 30 to 9 in favor" is a reason to be happy: "in favor" is tied to "voted". As an english speaking individual, it means that 30 were "in favor" and 9 against it.
Pretty easy, I can't see where the problem is.
The vote was "in favor" of passing the resolution condemning the thing; not the other way around, or in favoring of building it.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 03:12 AM   #622
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So, basically, the vote was in favor of killing this tower.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 05:16 AM   #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onn View Post
The vote was "in favor" of passing the resolution condemning the thing; not the other way around, or in favoring of building it.
Onn, it's symple english, we are not trying to read a paper on the dynamics of fluid...

Title of the article

Quote:
MoMA Mia! Nouvel's Taller Tower Gets a Thumbs Up
unless thumbs up means something else for you than a positive connotation, but in the western world (and you do have United States as country) it means YES

Quote:
Two weeks ago the Community Board 5 subcommittee that oversees land use and zoning sent a clear message to the developers of the Tower Verre that not every neighbor is thrilled about another skyscraper coming to Midtown—even one designed by Pritzker Prize winner Jean Nouvel. But last week the full CB5 voted 30 to 9 in favor of the taller-than-ever 53 West 53rd Street.
Is that not clear enough?? Where....where do you get 30 against this tower out of this??

I truly thought english was a pretty simple language to understand, but I was obvously wrong.
So please, explain your logic. Because I see none.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 05:27 AM   #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanamerican View Post
Onn, it's symple english, we are not trying to read a paper on the dynamics of fluid...
Read the comments on Curbed. It is made clear that the proposition passed was that of condemning the construction of this building.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 10:04 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by 3tmk View Post
are you sure?
To me 30 to 9 means that 30 were in favor against 9 who weren't.
It looks the same to me. unless I don't understand English. Community board though should be still pacified by some hefty bribe. This ridiculous talk about shade in Central park - jeez what is next???
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Old June 19th, 2009, 10:54 PM   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramvid01 View Post
Read the comments on Curbed. It is made clear that the proposition passed was that of condemning the construction of this building.
The comments on Curbed have no authority so it would be useless to use them . On the other hand, I had to read the resolution by the board to actually understand what actually happened, something that Curbed was not able to do, because "two thumbs up" means "yes", so probably the person that wrote that article has difficulty writing in english (and should therefore change his job to something that does not involve writing) or he actually didn't understand the Community Board resolution (which worries me even more). Eather way, the community board resolution was against it, and I'm happy I don't rely on Curbed on getting my daily news.

Here is the resolution with problem description:

Quote:
53 W 53rd Street, W2005/Hines West Fifty-Third Realty, LLC, application for two special permits to facilitate the construction of an 82-story mixed-use building.

WHEREAS, The applicant proposes to construct a mid-block 82 story mixed-use building at 53 West 53rd Street which would contain a 100 room hotel, 150 residential units, a block-through lobby, a cellar restaurant and a loading dock on West 54th Street; and

WHEREAS, The proposed building would sit on the western end of a merged zoning lot which stretches from just east of 6th Avenue to Fifth Avenue and would require Special Permits for the transfer of 136,000 square feet of floor area from the University Club at Fifth Avenue at West 54th Street under section 74-79 of the Zoning Resolution and another 275,000 square feet from St. Thomas Church under Section 74-711 of the Zoning Resolution; and

WHEREAS, The applicant also seeks waivers under Section 74-711 to permit the distribution of floor area without regard to zoning district boundaries (the proposed building site sits on two different zoning districts), height and setback requirements, pedestrian circulation space and rear yard equivalent requirements; and

WHEREAS, The proposed building was designed by Jean Nouvel as a slender, glass-clad tower which would be a significant architectural addition to the city but would rise on its mid-block location to 1,250 feet in height and would be one of the tallest buildings in the city -- which will, on a winter day, cast a shadow in Central Park; and

WHEREAS, The proposed building would include nearly 52,000 square feet in new space for the Museum of Modern Art (MoMA), increasing its gallery space by approximately 39 percent; and

WHEREAS, This Board reviewed the landmark aspect of this application in March 2008 and determined that the proposed tower was not harmonious with the existing landmarks and recommended that the Landmarks Preservation Commission deny the transfer of air rights from the University Club and St. Thomas Church; and

WHEREAS, The Landmarks Preservation Commission voted to approve the air rights transfer in May of 2008; and

WHEREAS, This Board also recommended that the City Planning Commission review the environmental impacts of traffic congestion from the construction of this building using a river-to-river analysis and a cumulative look at the impacts of the new building on local schools and emergency services; and

WHEREAS, While the CPC expanded the scope of the reviewing area somewhat for limited purposes, a river-to-river analysis of congestion was not performed and the building was generally not found to have a significant environmental impact on the area except as to shadows during the summer months; and

WHEREAS, The north side of West 54th Street is residential and the neighborhood has recently been subject to a multi-year construction project associated with the Museum of Modern Art; and

WHEREAS, There are now over half a dozen loading docks on West 54th Street and the use, or lack of use, of loading docks by MoMA and others on the block has created significant traffic congestion in the area; and

WHEREAS, Although MoMA may have taken some steps to lessen the impact of loading activity on West 54th Street, it has generally developed very bad relations with its residential neighbors and is not perceived to treat residential concerns seriously; and

WHEREAS, While the applicant has agreed to provide a liaison to the community during construction who will work with the Board and the community in minimizing the impacts of construction, the construction of such a large building will undoubtedly cause major disruptions to mid-town traffic and numerous other noise and pollution problems in the immediate vicinity of the project; and

WHEREAS, Although the Board is not concerned with the various waivers as to district boundaries, height, setback, rear-yard and pedestrian circulation space because these waivers would help to enhance the beauty and the practicality of the proposed building, the Board is concerned that the proposed tower is simply too large for its site; and

WHEREAS, Although the benefits of new maintenance plans for the University Club and St. Thomas Church, an important new architectural addition to the City and more public gallery space at MoMA would not be insignificant, the Board finds that the transfer of development rights would unduly increase the bulk of the proposed building such that the benefits are outweighed by the burdens associated with such a tall new building on this midblock site; therefore be it

RESOLVED, That Community Board Five denies the 53 W 53rd Street, W2005/Hines West Fifty-Third Realty, LLC application for two Special Permits under Sections 74-79 and 74-711 of the Zoning Resolution.

The above resolution passed by a vote of 30 in favor, 9 opposed, 1 abstaining, one present not entitled to vote.
source: http://www.cb5.org/resolutions/min_0906.php4#hinesmoma

Eather way, fortunately the board does not have the power to stop the tower if LLC wants to build it, so not a big issue at all.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 10:58 PM   #627
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"Two weeks ago the Community Board 5 subcommittee that oversees land use and zoning sent a clear message to the developers of the Tower Verre that not every neighbor is thrilled about another skyscraper coming to Midtown—even one designed by Pritzker Prize winner Jean Nouvel. But last week the full CB5 voted 30 to 9 in favor of the taller-than-ever 53 West 53rd Street."

The subcommittee was against it, but the whole group voted for it, those 9 are probably the ones on the subcommittee
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Old June 19th, 2009, 11:04 PM   #628
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Wow nice render!!!
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Old June 20th, 2009, 03:52 AM   #629
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Short summary:

The Community Board Five denies (by a vote of 30 in favor and 9 opposed) for the application of two special permits to facilitate the construction of an 82-story mixed-use building.

I hope that is now clear to everyone.
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Old June 20th, 2009, 11:07 AM   #630
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The bill is past !!!

1250 feet = 381 meters



Its goiing to be build !!!


"The above resolution passed by a vote of 30 in favor, 9 opposed, 1 abstaining, one present not entitled to vote."
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Old June 20th, 2009, 06:21 PM   #631
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If it doesn't get built, there's no god.
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Old June 21st, 2009, 02:20 AM   #632
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Well I wouldn't go that far. It wouldn't be good for the city. But a lot of great things don't happen for nyc. We'll get ours one of these days
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Old June 21st, 2009, 05:56 AM   #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
If it doesn't get built, there's no god.
I haven't been excited about this one since it was announced, and I won't be excited until shovels hit the ground. It will be miracle if it gets built. We've seen hundreds of projects like this before, that are simply too good to be true.
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Old June 21st, 2009, 06:19 AM   #634
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This would be a dynamic addition to New Yorks skyline..............What's with these morons going on about shade over Central Park ! This is a tall slim tower and if shade is such a problem looks like many buildings surrounding Central park may have to be bulldozed ?..............hmmm most of the trees as well, there must be more shade by the trees than any building nearby.
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Old June 21st, 2009, 07:32 AM   #635
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i like this building. it reminds me of the john hancock building in chicago with the cross beams on the exterior. it also means that if built, the apartments will go for a pretty penny. apartments with diagonal beams running across the windows are very expensive due to their novelty. this building will be something new for ny. it will be an excellent addition if built.
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Old June 21st, 2009, 07:35 AM   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onn View Post
I haven't been excited about this one since it was announced, and I won't be excited until shovels hit the ground. It will be miracle if it gets built. We've seen hundreds of projects like this before, that are simply too good to be true.
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Old June 21st, 2009, 07:14 PM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onn View Post
I haven't been excited about this one since it was announced, and I won't be excited until shovels hit the ground. It will be miracle if it gets built. We've seen hundreds of projects like this before, that are simply too good to be true.
i agree. until construction starts, this is still nothing more than a proposal to me
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 12:07 PM   #638
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It should be noted that those who oppose this aren't really opposing the tower. They just hate MOMA being in their neighborhood and think that if they oppose everything they do one day they'll just pack up and move out. It's still classic NIMBYism but more convoluted and somewhat more sinister.
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 12:36 AM   #639
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There was a public hearing on this one today, where Jean Nouvel was present. Still waiting to hear how it went from the people who were there. Sounds like it was a good old fashioned debate.


Quote:
Man-in-Black Jean Nouvel Appears for MoMA Tower Showdown!

Wednesday, July 22, 2009, by Pete



The hotly anticipated showdown between French starchitect Jean Nouvel and rakish upstart John Beckmann went down at the City Planning Commission today, at a public hearing to consider the transfer of air rights and zoning changes needed to build the Nouvel-designed Tower Verre, aka the MoMA Tower, aka 53 West 53rd Street. To refresh your memory, Nouvel's incredibly tall and incredibly awesome hotel/apartments/galleries skyscraper is winding its way through the land-use review process. Some people think it's way too big, including Beckmann, whose firm Axis Mundi unleashed a crazy (and uncommissioned) rival design, the Vertical Neighborhood. Word came late last week that Beckmann would present his concept to the City Planning Commission for shits and giggles, and that he did. Nouvel, who has shown up to explain his vision in the past, turned up again to lay what the French call "le smack down."


The public hearing promised some fireworks given the strong emotions of those for and against the plan. Nouvel spoke eloquently about the proposed 1250' tower and its assorted detail—until he was cut off by the three-minute time limit bell! Is this any way to treat a Pritzker Prize winner? The next speaker: Beckmann, of course. He presented his stack of boxes with some big picture boards, and declared that his scheme was a better alternative. Then he claimed that MoMA and Nouvel were "driving a stake through the heart of Manhattan." The look on Nouvel's face during Beckmann's testimony was, it's safe to say, classic. So it's Jean versus John—who will come out on top? The troops for both sides lined up to give testimony and the Commission listened respectfully, but revealed little regarding which way they will vote. The next CPC review session is slated for August 3rd.
http://curbed.com/archives/2009/07/2...r_showdown.php

Last edited by Onn; July 23rd, 2009 at 12:45 AM.
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 01:06 AM   #640
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edit- sorry for double post
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