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Old July 23rd, 2009, 01:07 AM   #641
Ebola
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For those who don't know, this is the ******* steaming pile of shit Beckmann thinks is better than Nouvel's skyscraper:







It's less than half the height so everyone is sure to support it and not the Nouvel design.
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 01:09 AM   #642
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Here is the alternate proposal from John Beckmann:



And a related article on Curb with more renders:

http://curbed.com/archives/2009/07/1...ned_asthis.php
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 02:59 AM   #643
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haha i like it! but im drunk at the moment ;-)
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 05:48 AM   #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefr View Post
Here is the alternate proposal from John Beckmann:

[IMG]http://i39.************/5o5u7o.jpg[/IMG]
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 07:54 AM   #645
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In a word, terrible. In quite a few more words, is Beckman delusional? This looks like trash compared to Nouvel's design. I believ a commenter on the Curbed story was quite right when he compared it to a "vertical trailer park in Midtown".
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 02:15 PM   #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post


Oh my. That must be one of the worst proposals ever.
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 08:25 PM   #647
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Oh my god...kill me.
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 09:23 PM   #648
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That new render is absolutely hideous. I know NYC is suppose to be "artistic" but that just be destroy on the spot. Simply horrible!
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 11:28 PM   #649
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Geil


Build this shit! Just for the lulz!!!!1one





Seriously - Was this guy on crack or something? Is that a Warhol Monroe to the right?
But well.. It'd definitely suit the MoMa better than Tower Verre, but apart this fact....
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 11:58 PM   #650
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thats not being artistic, they just got a massive pile of trash from the tip, piled it on top of eachother and called it a skyscraper
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Old July 24th, 2009, 01:33 AM   #651
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eww! i just threw up in my mouth a little...
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Old July 24th, 2009, 08:14 AM   #652
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Quote:
07.22.2009
Taller Is Smaller? Planning commission swoons for Nouvel's MoMA tower, despite its massive size

Jean Nouvel's new skyline-piercing tower got a rather favorable review from the City Planning Commission today.
Courtesy Hines


If it were built today, Jean Nouvel’s spindly tower at 53 West 53rd Street would be the second tallest building in the city, roughly 200 feet above the Chrysler Building and as many below the Empire State Building. Even once the World Trade Center is complete, the Hines-developed, MoMA-conjoined tower will remain among the tallest in the city.

It was this skyline altering impact and the quality of its underlying design that most interested the members of the City Planning Commission at a public hearing on the project today. But if the commissioners’ thoughts were cast heavenward, the considerable community opposition to the project remained terrestrial and very much rooted in fears of shadows cast and congestion worsened.

Which side one takes depends largely on the arguments made by the development team in favor of the massive project. Having struck a deal with MoMA to buy its western lot—and finaly remaining development site—in January 2007 for $125 million, Hines has agreed to build roughly 50,000 square feet of galleries for the museum on the tower's second through fifth floors, and above that nearly 600,000 square feet of hotel rooms and apartments.


Nouvel presents his plans to the commission, along with Hugh Ferriss' famous skyscraper drawings from the 1920s, which the architect said were an inspiration for his current work.
Matt Chaban


Hines and its land-use attorneys argue that such prime real estate in the heart of Midtown, itself the city’s densest district, would be developed at one point in one way or another. Thus any perceived impacts would be inevitable, and the developer argues it is providing sufficient offsets already.

The unique design by a Pritzker Prize-winning architect is meant to mitigate any major impacts, such as shifting massing towards 53rd Street and away from the more residential, low-scale 54th Street. And the deal to buy development rights from adjoining landmarks has left the Fifth Avenue end of the block under-developed, the developer argued.

To further prove its point, the design team crafted an as-of-right scenario, that while arguably too slender to be practical, would allow for a building over 1,000 feet, suggesting it was better to make allowances for a slightly taller, better building than to simply build this theoretical bland one. Impacts will also be lessened by the limited capacity of the project, which will contain only 150 apartments and 120 hotel rooms, less than a potential 600 allowed as of right.


A model presented to the commission shows the tower's outsized relationship to its neighbors.
Matt Chaban


“In terms of zoning, there’s actually much less on the site than there could be,” Michael Sillerman, the developer’s counsel, told AN after the hearing. “Just because the tower is tall does not mean it is dense. We could be building shorter, but you would wind up with a box.”
Jean Nouvel, himself in attendance (in an all-black suit) to defend a project he described as career defining for any architect, argued the building could be no other way. “The feeling when you’re a pedestrian, the feeling is of light coming down, not of a big, flat block,” the architect told the commissioners. “It’s like music, part of the rhythm of the city and the skyline.”
"It is a building for New York and nowhere else," he added. "It is not a parachute."

The tower won support last week from Scott Stringer, the Manhattan borough president, for these very reasons. “It’s less intensive than what could be built as of right, and we’re okay with that,” Anthony Borelli, Stringer’s planning director, said in an interview after speaking to the commission in favor of the project. Stringer’s office hopes to leverage the tower to get MoMA to address longstanding problems, such as congestion from tour buses and delivery trucks that idle on West 54th Street. “These problems predate the new tower,” Borelli said.


Nouvel argues that his building fits into "the rhythm" of the Manhattan skyline, as seen here from Central Park.
Courtesy Curbed.com


This did not deter the community, which still sees the building as too tall and insensitive to the neighborhood’s needs. “They’re putting a building as big as the Empire State Building on a site the size of a McDonald’s drive through,” David Achalis, a local resident, told the commission. Another, Ellen Brodsky, declared the project a loss, not a gain, for MoMA. "I see the transfer of what was once the cultural heart of the city into a greed-driven real estate development," she said.

As promised, John Beckman of Axis Mundi presented his counter proposal for the site, but not before attacking Nouvel's. "It's a glass spike driven into the heart of the neigborhood," the local architect said. He noted that his firm's work was half as tall while still containing all the necessary components MoMA and Hines sought. The commissioners appeared intrigued, but none inquired further about the design.

Instead, the commission's support seemed to lie squarely with Nouvel, so long as the tower being proposed was the one that got built. The chief concern was not so much how the tower might change to address community concens as how it could stay the same, ensuring that Nouvel’s designs and none others, even variations by the architect, would be implemented. Some called it “shrink wrapping” the design, a necessary precaution, it seemed, as so many high-profile projects have fallen through of late.
“What is to assure the commissioners and I that this beautiful building will not be transformed into this phantom as-of-right building,” chair Amanda Burden asked Sillerman. The attorney promised to work out a written understanding that would assuage the commission’s concerns.


A theoretical as-of-right tower shown by the development team to argue that its building is a vast improvement over what could already be legally built on the site.
Courtesy Curbed.com


While any discussion of the project’s economic viability was conspicuously absent, that seemed to be the underlining concern for the commissioners, that the very limited capacity of the project that made it acceptable could somehow threaten its future, whereby Nouvel’s design—like Frank Gehry’s at Atlantic Yards—could be abandoned for something less than satisfactory to the commission’s aesthetic sensibilities.

Sillerman insisted after the hearing that there was no reason for concern, and that the project would get built, though he would not say when. “Of course this project isn’t exempt from the market, but you want to be in a position to move forward as the market allows,” Sillerman said.

The commission has until early September to approve or disprove the project, though it could also suggest changes at a public meeting in the meantime. Then, it moves on to the City Council, where one member from an adjoining district opposes it while the speaker, Christine Quinn, whose district it lies in, has yet to take a position.

Matt Chaban
http://archpaper.com/e-board_rev.asp?News_ID=3688

Last edited by Onn; July 24th, 2009 at 08:20 AM.
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Old July 24th, 2009, 12:17 PM   #653
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What's this square thingy to the left? Didn't notice it til now. Does it belong to the Verre?

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Old July 24th, 2009, 02:38 PM   #654
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"the considerable community opposition to the project remained terrestrial and very much rooted in fears of shadows cast and congestion worsened."

Those people live in the very heart of Manhattan, the most densely built up area in the USA, the place where everything is about congestion and being close to everything. (Like Rem Koolhaas explains in Delirious New York)

There it sounds so extremely stupid to fear congestion...
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Old July 24th, 2009, 06:13 PM   #655
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much prefer jean nouvel's !!!!!
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Old July 24th, 2009, 07:15 PM   #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
What's this square thingy to the left? Didn't notice it til now. Does it belong to the Verre?

That is actually part of the museum being built. The museum itself is in the lower part of the tower, and it extends into that smaller building. I'm guessing the tower is too slender to fit the entire museum in, to make it practical.
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Old July 24th, 2009, 07:33 PM   #657
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wow, great design. tower verre could be my favourite building in nyc, if built. the other proposal looks like some slum houses put together, must be a joke or to simply provoke. those nimbys can really be annyoing. i'm glad we don't have this kind of problem here in china.

Last edited by HK999; July 24th, 2009 at 07:35 PM. Reason: adendum
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Old July 25th, 2009, 03:09 AM   #658
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better off nothing built than that eco-calamity
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Old July 25th, 2009, 05:17 AM   #659
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John Beckmann's project isn't bad.It looks strange,and isn't universally accepted as beautiful -like Nouvel's proposal -but still a good project IMO.
Anyway,if there's already Nouvel's proposal for that plot,build this one!
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Old July 25th, 2009, 07:53 AM   #660
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I didn't know this building was that damn skinny but it still looks damn good.
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