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Old January 15th, 2008, 05:03 AM   #241
mavn
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Originally Posted by Quintana View Post
I think I heard or read somewhere that the KNVB asked 12 Dutch cities whether they were interested in becoming a host city. Only Utrecht said they were not, all the others were. The 12 cities were - out of the top of my head - Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht, Eindhoven, Groningen, Tilburg, Breda, Enschede, Arnhem, Kerkrade, Alkmaar and Heerenveen.
From what I've read, Utrecht did want to be a host city. They turned down the plans from Phanos (building a new 40 to 50000 stadium in return for exploiting the old stadium site with new building projects) before this process was started, but a becoming a possible host city for the Worldcup could chance their minds, and at least reconsider it, or come up with new ones.

OK, were do we stand at the beginning of 2008. Here's a roundup of all Dutch cities that have declared interest in becoming a host city. From what I've read in papers and all other media:

AMSTERDAM:
ArenA extension to 70000+ looks very likely. A new 80000+ stadium for the World cup, 2028 Olympic Games bid, and perhaps the new home for Ajax is a big question mark.
ROTTERDAM:
New 75000+ Feyenoord stadium is certain. "De kuip" will still be there as a possible second venue for Rotterdam (51000)
UTRECHT:
Current stadium can't be extended for transportation reasons. The area is to small as it is. A new stadium looks unlikely for the moment.
EINDHOVEN:
The "Philips stadion" currently holds 36000. PSV is examining an extension to 43000 which is very likely to happen. That looks like the absolute maximum on their current location. A new stadium has informally been dismissed by PSV officials and seems extremely unlikely.
GRONINGEN:
The "Euroborg" currently holds about 20000. Will be extended by 2000 in the coming summer by lowering the pitch and adding three rows of seats. Investigations are underway on a possible extension to 35 to 40000. According to rumors it doesn't look promising. The general manager has already said that leaving (!) the 3 year old stadium for a new one is an option if they can't expand. Sounds very unlikely though.
TILBURG:
The city has apparently reacted positively on the request to become host city. Seems weird. Although it's the 6th largest city in Holland, its team rarely sells out it's 14000 stadium. 40000+ is ridiculous. I can't see this happen.
BREDA:
NAC has a 17000 stadium wich they plan to extend in small steps to about 30000 in the coming decade. They are investigating whether 40000 could be done. The emphasis in the investigation is on the need for those extra seats. Can they fill those seats on a regular basis? Breda will probably try to get the World cup in its city. They paid a ridiculous amount of money to be connected to the European high speed train network. Becoming a world cup venue could be their next target.
ENSCHEDE:
The "Arke stadion" is currently being expanded from 13000 to 25500 by adding a second tier on 1 half of the stadium (2 sides, 1 corner). It will be finished in the second half of 2008. Virtually all the new seats have already sold out from what I've understood. They plan to build a second tier on the other half as well (2 sides, 3 corners). After that, the capacity would be 43000. No time has been set for that extension though.
ARNHEM:
The "Gelredome" has a capacity of little under 30000. Vitesse doesn't need the extension, but the Gelredome has become a major venue for events that could benefit from the extra capacity. The stadium has started an investigation on whether an extension to 40000 can be done. The results should be known in the coming months.
KERKRADE:
Roda can't fill their 20000 stadium on a regular basis. None the less, the city of Kerkrade has expressed interest in the World cup. They wan't to build a temporary second tier which would raise the capacity to 40000 for the tournament. The tier would be taken off after the event. Apparently this was already the idea when the stadium was build. A relatively easy and low cost operation.
ALKMAAR:
AZ has already presented their extension plans for the "DSB stadion". It would increase it's capacity from 17000 to 40000. It's a 150 million euro project which features a 100 million business park and a 50 million extension to the stadium. Due to a long list of formal procedures, the projected finishing date is 2011 to 2012.
HEERENVEEN:
The "Abe Lenstra Stadion" can currently hold 26600. They will extend the stadium in small steps to 40000+ in the coming decade.

Not on the list...:
THE HAGUE:
3rd city in the country. They just have a poor team with the worst and most violent supporters in Holland. They play in the second league and attract an average of 4500 in a brand new 15000 stadium. Unfortunately, a 40000 seater in the the Hague sounds bizarre...

From all those plans, only Kerkrade is (obviously) a world cup only extension. Breda, Arnhem, Tilburg and Utrecht would be questionable to very questionable if we would not get the world cup. For Groningen it all depends on the possibilities. IF it can be done they will probably go to 40000.

Amsterdam (1 or 2), Rotterdam (1 or 2), Eindhoven, Alkmaar, Heerenveen, Enschede and Groningen seem very likely candidates. Add Kerkrade as a certain possibility, and it looks to become a fierce battle. Add 1 or 2 from the "questionable" list and Holland could have made a bid on their own...

Obviously, feel free to correct me if I've made a mistake...
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Old February 29th, 2008, 08:50 PM   #242
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A Dutch article:

Quote:
Nederlandse steden gretig voor WK 2018

vrijdag 29 februari 2008 17:00

(Novum) - Ook Alkmaar, Enschede en Heerenveen zien deelname aan het WK voetbal in 2018 wel zitten. De gemeenten hebben bij de KNVB aangegeven dat ze bereid zijn de infrastructuur en de stadions aan te passen aan de normen van de Fifa. Eerder werd al bekend dat Amsterdam, Rotterdam en Eindhoven geïnteresseerd zijn in het WK voetbal.

In Amsterdam en Rotterdam liggen plannen voor stadions met een capaciteit van minimaal zeventigduizend toeschouwers. Arnhem heeft de KNVB laten weten dat een uitbreiding van het Gelredome naar veertigduizend niet haalbaar is. Voor het WK moet een stadion minimaal veertigduizend zitplaatsen hebben. De KNVB gaat nog gesprekken voeren met delegaties uit Breda, Groningen, Kerkrade en Utrecht.

Eerder deze week werd bekend dat Nederland en België in maart gaan praten met Uefa-voorzitter Michel Platini over de organisatie van het WK.

Nederland en België maakten eind 2007 bekend dat ze de mogelijkheden tot het organiseren van het WK in 2018 wilden onderzoeken. Australië, China, Engeland, Mexico en Rusland hebben ook al aangegeven dat ze over tien jaar graag het WK willen organiseren.
English:

After meeting with the Dutch FA the cities of Alkmaar, Enschede and Heerenveen declared that they are interested in hosting games for the WC in the Benelux. Earlier, Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Eindhoven declared their interest.

There are plans in Amsterdam and Rotterdam for stadiums with capacities of at least 70.000.
The city of Arnhem told the Dutch FA that an expansion of the Gelredome stadium to 40.000 seats is not possible, which is the minimum capacity for the WC.

The Dutch FA will have meetings with delegations from Breda, Groningen, Kerkrade and Utrecht about the possibility of hosting games.

The Netherlands and Belgium will have a meeting with UEFA-chairman Platini in march about the organisation of the WC.

The Netherlands and Belgium anounced at the end of 2007 that they are looking into the possiblity of hosting the WC in 2018. Australia, China, England, Mexico and Russia have also said to be interested in hosting the tournament.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 02:46 AM   #243
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Although I applaud Belgium and the Netherlands to be putting together a 2018 bid. I don't think they really stand a chance to be representing Europe when they will go up against England, Spain and Russia. Ok yes they are well positioned in Europe, and yes it would be their first time as hosts for W.C. but it will be a tough competition!

Ok going from whats been said in this thread, this is the list of stadiums and their possible capacities that the Benelux might have:
BENELUX 2018 WORLD CUP BID:
NETHERLANDS:
1.Amsterdam, Amsterdam ArenA, 51,324 possible expansion to 70,000+

2.Rotterdam, New Stadium, 51,000 possible expansion to 75,000+

3.Eindhoven, Philips Stadion, 36,500 expansion to 43,000

4.Groningen, Euroborg, 20,000 expansion to 40,000

5.Arnhem, The Gelredome, 29,600 maybe an expansion to 40,000 (although I don't see how it could be done)

BELGIUM
6.Brussels, New National Stadium, 60,000+

7.Brugge, New Stadium, 45,000+

8.Liege, Stade Maurice Dufrasne, 29,173 expanded to 40,000

9.Antwerp, New Stadium, 40,000

10.Charleroi, Stade du Pays de Charleroi, 25,149 expanded to 40,000

Benelux Reserve Stadiums:
NETHERLANDS:
Amsterdam, New National Stadium ???, 80,000+
Alkmarr, DSB Stadion, 16,000 expanded to 40,000.
Heerenveen, Abe Lenstra Stadion, 27,500 expanded to 40,000
Enschede, Arke Stadion 13,500 expanded to 43,000.
BELGIUM:
Brussels, New Anderlecht Stadium, 40,000-45,000
Gent, Artevelde Stadion, 22,500 expanded to 40,000
Genk, Cristal Arena, 24,604 expanded to 40,000

Now lets compare it with Englands possible bid. This bid is my own ideal list of stadiums and cities which I would like to be used in 2018. Some new stadiums I have made up but would be needed for those cities. But others have a minimum to maximum capacity figure thats been mentioned in the past. Note only 1 city can have 2 stadiums, and also Sepp Blatter has said the minimum capacity for 2018 would be 45,000.

ENGLAND 2018 WORLD CUP BID:
1. London, Wembley Stadium, 90,000.

2. Manchester, Old Trafford, 76,212 - 95,212.

3. Liverpool, New Anfield, 71,000.

4. London, Emirates Stadium, 60,432.

5. Newcastle, St James Park, 60,390.

6. Birmingham, Villa Park, 52,000.

7. Leeds, New Leeds Stadium, 40,00 - 50,000.

8. Nottingham, New Nottingham stadium, 45,000 - 50,000.

9. Sheffield, New Sheffield Stadium, 40,000 - 48,000.

10. Southampton, St Mary's Stadium, 40,000 - 48,000.

11. Bristol, New Bristol Stadium, 40,000 - 45,000.

12. Norwich, New Norwich Stadium, 40,000 - 45,000.

England reserve stadiums:
1. London, New West Ham Stadium, 55,000 - 60,000.
2. London, New Chelsea Stadium, 55,000 - 65,000.
3. London, White Hart Lane, 55,000.
4. Birmingham, City of Birmingham Stadium, 55,000.
5. Liverpool/ kirkby, New Everton Stadium, 50,000 - 60,000.
6. Sunderland, Stadium of Light, 49,000 - 64,000.
7. Manchester, City of Manchester Stadium, 47,726.
8. Portsmouth, New Portsmouth Stadium, 36,000 - 45,000.

Now lets look at Spains possible 2018 bid:

SPAIN 2018 WORLD CUP BID:
1.Madrid, Bernabeu, 80,354.

2.Madrid, Estadio La Peineta, 73,700.

3.Barcelona, Camp Nou, 106,000

4.Valencia, New Valencia Stadium, 75,000

5.Seville, Estadio Olimpico de la Cartuja, 72,000

6.Bilbao, Estadio San Mames, 56,000

7.Zaragoza, Nueva Romareda, 42,500

8.San Sebastian, Gipuzkoarena, 42,400

9.La Coruna, Estadio de Riazor, 40,000

10.Malaga, Estadio La Rosaleda, 40,000

11.Murcia: Nueva Condomina 40,000

12.Elche: Estadio Manuel Martinez Valero 40,000

Spain reserve stadiums:
Madrid: Estadio Vicente Calderon 57,500
Barcelona: Estadi Nou Sarria 41,000
Seville: Estadio de Lopera 55,500
Seville: Estadio R. Sánchez Pizjuán 45,000
Palma/Mallorca, Estadio Lluís Sitjar, 18 000 expanded to 40,000.

And here are the only decent Russian stadiums I know about that might be in their bid (let me know if you know of any others).

RUSSIA 2018 WORLD CUP BID:
1.Moscow, Luzhniki Stadion, 84,745.

2.St. Peterburg, Zenit Stadium, 62,167

3.Moscow, Stadion Spartak, 35,000 expanded to 40,000

4.Vladikavkaz, Republikan Spartak, 32,574 expanded to 40,000

5.Voronezh, Tsentralnyi Profsoyuz, 31,743 expanded to 40,000

6.Volgograd, Tsentralnyi Stadion, 32,120 expanded to 40,000


What does everyone think about the comparisons between all these possible bids? Are their cities I have missed out that you want in? What about the stadiums and their capacities did I get those right?
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Old March 1st, 2008, 05:47 AM   #244
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Allright comments...

Netherlands/Belgium

Gelredome/Arnhem has allready said that expansion is not interesting., trade them in for FC Twente/ Enschede, Heerenveen or AZ Alkmaar. WC or not these clubs have allready intentions to go to 40 000.
Euroborg/ FC Groningen will probably not be possible to expend to 40 000 plus. They are investigating possebilleties, but rumours are not good.
FC Utrecht is still negociating with Phanos and townhall incluiding a new 40 000 + stadium. Maybe you can trade them in for Groningen.
Charleroi? please not that again. From Belgium I have heard little. To be hounest I think the mayority of Belgium stadiums will be white elephants if there is no BeNeliga (Belgium Netherland) in the near future.
I have seen planns from Brugge and rumours for ages from Anderlecht/ Brussels. Also Club Liege have shown ambition. Further nothing.
Rotterdam will not be an expansion, but a new stadium. The current ´Kuip´will take part of the bid to as they cannot demolish it because it is a monument. The new stadium will have a cap between 75 000 and 90 000.

England

from 7 untill 12 I haven´t seen planns, maybe it´s me, maybe it´s just rumours.
same goes for the reserve list with numbers 1,2,3 and 8. Only rumours.

There are a lot of Londons in your list, two Manchesters, two Birminhams and two Liverpools (allthough technicly speaking Everton will be Kirby). Only one city is alouwed to have two stadiums.

Spain

5. Sevilla/ La cartuja... Sercan will bust your ass for saying it has a cap of 72 000... Sevilla CF do have serious planns to extend to about 65 000 though.
8 San Sebastian/ Real Sociedad will not build this stadium. It does not have this cap at current moment, or serious planns.
from 9 to 12 the caps are incorrect neither are there any planns to extend.
Also the Spanish FA does not have said they have any interest in organising the WC.
Also for Spain counts that only one city can have two stadiums, so there goes your reserve list except for Real Mallorca. This stadium might get there in the future, but I doubt it, because they will never fill it.
Zaragoza will have/need a new stadium, I thought there were going for 50 000 now.

Russia.

Don´t now to be hounest.

My conclussion

England is favourite without a doubt, specialy because Spain does not have shown interest yet. Benelux will need some very good lobying and Russia at the current moment don´t stand a chance.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 02:34 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
Allright comments...

[England

from 7 untill 12 I haven´t seen planns, maybe it´s me, maybe it´s just rumours.
As I said some I made up. However Nottingham will build a Stadium this size by 2014, and St Mary's can be expanded to this size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
same goes for the reserve list with numbers 1,2,3 and 8. Only rumours.
Portsmouths stadium is going to happen, and I expect Chelsea & Totenham to have expaneded/ built new stadiums by then,
Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
There are a lot of Londons in your list, two Manchesters, two Birminhams and two Liverpools (allthough technicly speaking Everton will be Kirby). Only one city is alouwed to have two stadiums.
Yep I know this, these "reserve stadiums" would replace the other stadiums on the 1st list but stick to this rule. example: City of Birmingham Stadium would replace Villa Park.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
Spain
5. Sevilla/ La cartuja... Sercan will bust your ass for saying it has a cap of 72 000... Sevilla CF do have serious planns to extend to about 65 000 though.
I didn't say that Seville Stadium, I said the Estadio Olimpico de la Cartuja which does have a capacity of 72,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
from 9 to 12 the caps are incorrect neither are there any planns to extend.
I am saying they would have to expand these/ build new ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
Also for Spain counts that only one city can have two stadiums, so there goes your reserve list except for Real Mallorca.
Yep I know this rule, but these stadiums could replace those stadiums on 1st list if were more modern or larger capacity etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
Zaragoza will have/need a new stadium, I thought there were going for 50 000 now.
Didn't know that thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
Russia.
Don´t now to be hounest.
Yes it was a long shot!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
My conclussion
England is favourite without a doubt, specialy because Spain does not have shown interest yet. Benelux will need some very good lobying and Russia at the current moment don´t stand a chance.
Well England could continue to shoot themselves in the foot, if they come up with more plans similar to having Premier league clubs play league games abroad during season. Benelux also might have more frineds in Uefa than England so might help them get the vote!
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 02:24 AM   #246
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Antwerp really wants to build a new stadium and probably it will be more then a 40k seater, they talked about 50k-60/70k. Not just for the football teams (antwerp and GBA could use it together, and GBA has a big crowd down in the region Antwerp because it's the only club in the highest belgian competition), but they would like to use it to host mayor events. They want to compare themselves with the Stade de France stadium, and on teletext 2 months ago I saw they already had sended a delegation to Paris, to gain more information from the stadium and get some ideas. I hope Breda will get a stadium, then I will watching the WC right between Breda and Antwerp, because that's were I live...
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:53 PM   #247
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Kobo, you're not properly informed. The only expansion of an existing stadium that might happen in Belgium is that of Genk's Cristal Arena. No expansions but new stadia in Charleroi and Liège. And not for Club de Liège but for their rivals Standard de Liège.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 02:56 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobo View Post
Although I applaud Belgium and the Netherlands to be putting together a 2018 bid. I don't think they really stand a chance to be representing Europe when they will go up against England, Spain and Russia. Ok yes they are well positioned in Europe, and yes it would be their first time as hosts for W.C. but it will be a tough competition!

Ok going from whats been said in this thread, this is the list of stadiums and their possible capacities that the Benelux might have:
BENELUX 2018 WORLD CUP BID:
NETHERLANDS:
1.Amsterdam, Amsterdam ArenA, 51,324 possible expansion to 70,000+

2.Rotterdam, New Stadium, 51,000 possible expansion to 75,000+

3.Eindhoven, Philips Stadion, 36,500 expansion to 43,000

4.Groningen, Euroborg, 20,000 expansion to 40,000

5.Arnhem, The Gelredome, 29,600 maybe an expansion to 40,000 (although I don't see how it could be done)

BELGIUM
6.Brussels, New National Stadium, 60,000+

7.Brugge, New Stadium, 45,000+

8.Liege, Stade Maurice Dufrasne, 29,173 expanded to 40,000

9.Antwerp, New Stadium, 40,000

10.Charleroi, Stade du Pays de Charleroi, 25,149 expanded to 40,000

Benelux Reserve Stadiums:
NETHERLANDS:
Amsterdam, New National Stadium ???, 80,000+
Alkmarr, DSB Stadion, 16,000 expanded to 40,000.
Heerenveen, Abe Lenstra Stadion, 27,500 expanded to 40,000
Enschede, Arke Stadion 13,500 expanded to 43,000.
BELGIUM:
Brussels, New Anderlecht Stadium, 40,000-45,000
Gent, Artevelde Stadion, 22,500 expanded to 40,000
Genk, Cristal Arena, 24,604 expanded to 40,000

Now lets compare it with Englands possible bid. This bid is my own ideal list of stadiums and cities which I would like to be used in 2018. Some new stadiums I have made up but would be needed for those cities. But others have a minimum to maximum capacity figure thats been mentioned in the past. Note only 1 city can have 2 stadiums, and also Sepp Blatter has said the minimum capacity for 2018 would be 45,000.

ENGLAND 2018 WORLD CUP BID:
1. London, Wembley Stadium, 90,000.

2. Manchester, Old Trafford, 76,212 - 95,212.

3. Liverpool, New Anfield, 71,000.

4. London, Emirates Stadium, 60,432.

5. Newcastle, St James Park, 60,390.

6. Birmingham, Villa Park, 52,000.

7. Leeds, New Leeds Stadium, 40,00 - 50,000.

8. Nottingham, New Nottingham stadium, 45,000 - 50,000.

9. Sheffield, New Sheffield Stadium, 40,000 - 48,000.

10. Southampton, St Mary's Stadium, 40,000 - 48,000.

11. Bristol, New Bristol Stadium, 40,000 - 45,000.

12. Norwich, New Norwich Stadium, 40,000 - 45,000.

England reserve stadiums:
1. London, New West Ham Stadium, 55,000 - 60,000.
2. London, New Chelsea Stadium, 55,000 - 65,000.
3. London, White Hart Lane, 55,000.
4. Birmingham, City of Birmingham Stadium, 55,000.
5. Liverpool/ kirkby, New Everton Stadium, 50,000 - 60,000.
6. Sunderland, Stadium of Light, 49,000 - 64,000.
7. Manchester, City of Manchester Stadium, 47,726.
8. Portsmouth, New Portsmouth Stadium, 36,000 - 45,000.

Now lets look at Spains possible 2018 bid:

SPAIN 2018 WORLD CUP BID:
1.Madrid, Bernabeu, 80,354.

2.Madrid, Estadio La Peineta, 73,700.

3.Barcelona, Camp Nou, 106,000

4.Valencia, New Valencia Stadium, 75,000

5.Seville, Estadio Olimpico de la Cartuja, 72,000

6.Bilbao, Estadio San Mames, 56,000

7.Zaragoza, Nueva Romareda, 42,500

8.San Sebastian, Gipuzkoarena, 42,400

9.La Coruna, Estadio de Riazor, 40,000

10.Malaga, Estadio La Rosaleda, 40,000

11.Murcia: Nueva Condomina 40,000

12.Elche: Estadio Manuel Martinez Valero 40,000

Spain reserve stadiums:
Madrid: Estadio Vicente Calderon 57,500
Barcelona: Estadi Nou Sarria 41,000
Seville: Estadio de Lopera 55,500
Seville: Estadio R. Sánchez Pizjuán 45,000
Palma/Mallorca, Estadio Lluís Sitjar, 18 000 expanded to 40,000.

And here are the only decent Russian stadiums I know about that might be in their bid (let me know if you know of any others).

RUSSIA 2018 WORLD CUP BID:
1.Moscow, Luzhniki Stadion, 84,745.

2.St. Peterburg, Zenit Stadium, 62,167

3.Moscow, Stadion Spartak, 35,000 expanded to 40,000

4.Vladikavkaz, Republikan Spartak, 32,574 expanded to 40,000

5.Voronezh, Tsentralnyi Profsoyuz, 31,743 expanded to 40,000

6.Volgograd, Tsentralnyi Stadion, 32,120 expanded to 40,000


What does everyone think about the comparisons between all these possible bids? Are their cities I have missed out that you want in? What about the stadiums and their capacities did I get those right?

Kobo
You are a dreamer. You compare the different countries by putting together stadium lists based on rumours. The reality is that most of the stadiums needed for all the countries, still doesn’t exist.

The European bids will come from Spain, Russia and Belgium/The Netherlands. Five rich countries that all can afford building 12 top international stadiums. Whether it is wise is another discussion.

We have to believe that all those countries really want to host the WC, and will build stadiums that are big enough and good enough.

Let’s agree that stadiums will not be an important issue for the selection of the host and discuss other topics, like who has hosted it before, who has the infrastructure, who can handle the security issues and so on.

Benelux, most likely have the best infrastructure in Europe. Spain and England also have a good infrastructure. Russia will have problems with both infrastructure and the distance between the venues.

The Netherlands and England have problems with hooligans. Russia has lack of football interest with an average attendance 13500 in Europe’s biggest country.

Spain and England have already hosted WC.

The Netherlands have had the best national team of these countries during the last 30 years.

Let us widen the discussion and accept that all bidders will offer top stadiums and I am sure that in 2018 there will be many stadiums better than Wembley in Europe.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 04:40 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
Kobo, you're not properly informed. The only expansion of an existing stadium that might happen in Belgium is that of Genk's Cristal Arena. No expansions but new stadia in Charleroi and Liège. And not for Club de Liège but for their rivals Standard de Liège.
Thanks for that, but I was getting my information from what other people had said in this thread.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 04:57 PM   #250
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Quote:
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Let’s agree that stadiums will not be an important issue for the selection of the host and discuss other topics, like who has hosted it before, who has the infrastructure, who can handle the security issues and so on.

The Netherlands and England have problems with hooligans. Russia has lack of football interest with an average attendance 13500 in Europe’s biggest country.
Let's not agree that stadiums will not be an important issue for the selection of the host, and let's discuss this topic! First of all, this forum is all about stadia. Secondly, there will be great differences between the stadia of the bidding countries. The largest stadium from the Benelux bid will probably be Feyenoord's new 70,000 stadium, while the next biggest will be the Amsterdam Arena or the new stadium in Brussels.

Compare this to the stadiums in England and Spain; they have multiple stadia with a capacity of around 90,000! If the Benelux will have a bid with only the minimum required capacities, they're gonna have a hard job bidding up against the likes of Spain and England IMO! Ofcourse a bid needs alot more than just some fancy stadia, but it is a very important factor. The advantage of the Benelux may be that the cities are very well connected and located close to eachother, but like you said, England and Spain have excellent infrastructure as well.

And regarding the hooligan problem; that's a thing of the past in England's premiership really, I reckon it's a bigger problem in the Netherlands these days. And I understood there are quite alot of hooligans in Russia as well.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 06:51 PM   #251
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Kobo
You are a dreamer. You compare the different countries by putting together stadium lists based on rumours. The reality is that most of the stadiums needed for all the countries, still doesn’t exist.

The European bids will come from Spain, Russia and Belgium/The Netherlands. Five rich countries that all can afford building 12 top international stadiums. Whether it is wise is another discussion.

We have to believe that all those countries really want to host the WC, and will build stadiums that are big enough and good enough.

Let’s agree that stadiums will not be an important issue for the selection of the host and discuss other topics, like who has hosted it before, who has the infrastructure, who can handle the security issues and so on.

Benelux, most likely have the best infrastructure in Europe. Spain and England also have a good infrastructure. Russia will have problems with both infrastructure and the distance between the venues.

The Netherlands and England have problems with hooligans. Russia has lack of football interest with an average attendance 13500 in Europe’s biggest country.

Spain and England have already hosted WC.

The Netherlands have had the best national team of these countries during the last 30 years.

Let us widen the discussion and accept that all bidders will offer top stadiums and I am sure that in 2018 there will be many stadiums better than Wembley in Europe.
I am aware that some of these stadiums have not been built, and admitted that I had made some up. As I don't live in Belgium or The Netherlands, Russia or Spain, I gathered my information about the stadiums from this thread and others on this site, where people had written what proposals would and might be happening in those countries. So I felt the data I used was from what others and heard or read about in those countries to come from reliable sources, and assumed it to be accurate.

In terms of infrastructure, England's works just about. But its road network is far superior to its rail. I doubt England would have a High Speed rail network between its main city's by 2018. The UK is the biggest hub for international flights in Europe though. Spain on the other hand will have such a rail system and already does in some places. With Belgium and Netherlands i'm not sure if it does or if it will do. But from my experience traveling through this area its always been good, especially in Holland. With Russia I expect it needs to be improved.

In terms of security, both Spain and the UK have suffered from major terrorist attacks in the last 4 years. This could continue to be the case come 2018, especially with the UK still being so involved with the Middle East. However the UK is well known for being good with security issues and does advise other countires on such matters. I would have thought Spain would have strong security plans too, as they have a history of dealing with the Basque Party. Belgium & The Netherlands I have no idea what their security is like. With Russia lets just say the police are really corrupt and you can make up your own mind.

With regards to hosting major international sporting events lets have a look at what they have done and will be doing before 2018. Spain has 1 Fifa world cup in 1982, 1 Uefa European Championship in 1964, 1 Olympics in 1992, The 1999 World Championship in Athletics in Seville, Barcelona will be host for the European Championships in Athletcis in 2010. Spain also have 2 Formula 1 Grand Prix yearly The Spanish Grand Prix and the European Grand Prix.

Belgium and the Netherlands have hosted 2 Olympics between them in 1920 and 1928, 1 Uefa European championship together in 2000, and 1 in Belgium on its own in 1972, and 1 European Athletcis Championship in Brussels in 1950. Belgium hosts 1 F1 Grand Prix every year.

England has hosted 2 Olympics in 1908 & 1948 and will host its 3rd in 2012, 1 Fifa World Cup in 1966, 1 Uefa European Championship in 1996, 1 Rugby world cup in 1991, and another as co host in 1999. It has a F1 Grand Prix every year and also 1 of the 4 Grand Slam tennis tounrament's yearly that being Wimbeldon.

Russia has hosted 1 Olympics in 1980, and will host its 1st Winter Olympics in 2014, and it shall host its first world athletics championship in 2013.

I hope this helps with widening the discussion on the 2018 World Cup topic.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 08:14 PM   #252
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I hope this helps with widening the discussion on the 2018 World Cup topic.
But considering this is the 'stadiums and sport arenas' forum, let's just stick to that please. The other issues can be discussed in other places I'm sure. If anyone has any stadium news, please post it
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Old March 4th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #253
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Since when do we have a hooligan-problem in The Netherlands?

Italy has a hooligan-problem. The only trouble we have had here in the past few years were some ADO Den Haag hooligans running on their own pitch.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 08:52 PM   #254
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But considering this is the 'stadiums and sport arenas' forum, let's just stick to that please. The other issues can be discussed in other places I'm sure. If anyone has any stadium news, please post it
Thats fine with me Joop. What do you think about my comparison's between the English, Spanish, Russian and Benelux bids that I posted 1st March 2008? Have I got many of the Benelux stadium capacity's & host cities terribly wrong?
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Old March 5th, 2008, 12:27 AM   #255
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Quote:
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Although I applaud Belgium and the Netherlands to be putting together a 2018 bid. I don't think they really stand a chance to be representing Europe when they will go up against England, Spain and Russia. Ok yes they are well positioned in Europe, and yes it would be their first time as hosts for W.C. but it will be a tough competition!

Ok going from whats been said in this thread, this is the list of stadiums and their possible capacities that the Benelux might have:
BENELUX 2018 WORLD CUP BID:
NETHERLANDS:
1.Amsterdam, Amsterdam ArenA, 51,324 possible expansion to 70,000+

2.Rotterdam, New Stadium, 51,000 possible expansion to 75,000+

3.Eindhoven, Philips Stadion, 36,500 expansion to 43,000

4.Groningen, Euroborg, 20,000 expansion to 40,000

5.Arnhem, The Gelredome, 29,600 maybe an expansion to 40,000 (although I don't see how it could be done)

BELGIUM
6.Brussels, New National Stadium, 60,000+

7.Brugge, New Stadium, 45,000+

8.Liege, Stade Maurice Dufrasne, 29,173 expanded to 40,000

9.Antwerp, New Stadium, 40,000

10.Charleroi, Stade du Pays de Charleroi, 25,149 expanded to 40,000

You were wrong on a few points.
Netherlands.
First of all, they will built a new stadium in R'dam with a minimum of 75.000, there were even rumours about a 100.000. (wc or not, going to built anyway)
In Amsterdam they wanted to put a third tier on the arena. Upgrading it to at least 75.000 or more. They are also thinking about a new stadium.
PSV is going to expand to 42000-44000 i believe., so you were right on that.
Fc Twente, Sc Heerenveen and Az have all agreed to have a 40.000+ (Az's stadium structure will then also be able to hold an expansion of 65000/75000 for when their popularity grows)stadium by that time.
Fc Utrecht, will probably built a new stadium (no time schedule, not especialy for wc, but because the sponsor wants to take over the club and invest.. And they want to have the opportunity to grow, because they think that the fanbase will grow when they perform good.)
Nac Breda is also expanding. The were already planning to be around 32.000 by that time, but there thinking of going to 40.000+ when there will be a chance to get the wc.
Fc Groningen also want to expand to around 35000 or maybe 40000+ when the wc comes along. They havent officially announced it yet. Its not yet known if their stadium can be expanded like that, so there is also a possibillity of a new stadium.
Roda Jc said that they will make there stadium available for a temporary second tier if thats really needed.
Arnehm will not be a host city because its not interesting to expand for them.

Belgium:
Brussels wants to have a new national stadium of 65000, no concrete plan as of yet. It doesnt nesseceraly have to house the country's best club: anderlecht.
Brugge will built a 40000+ stadium, not 45000 +.
The city of antwerp agreed to have a stadium, no real plans yet, not known. for which club it will be.
Liege will not expand, but they will built a new stadium of 40000+.
Racing Genk wants to expand there stadium to 40000+
Charleroi doesnt know yet.
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Old March 6th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #256
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Genk will expand its stadium to 45000. It has confirmed its candidature yesterday.



http://www.bluewhitezone.be/CristalArena.wmv

Brugge will build a new stadium of 40000-45000 (price 125 mio; UEFA 4star)




Brussels will build a new 60000 seater (price 250 mio in a complex of 1 000 mio euro's; with a press center, conference rooms, ...)

Antwerp will build a new 40000 seater

Luik will build a new 45000 seater (UEFA 4star)


trainingscomplexes:

Tubeke :






Academy Louis-dreyfus (Luik):









Gent (20000 seats):







charleroi : new 40 000 seater

Last edited by genkie456; May 14th, 2008 at 12:42 PM.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 10:47 AM   #257
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The Dutch police force will make a bid unsucesful. They like to abuse football for their own good.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #258
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I can't really blame them seeing their ridiculous low wages
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Old March 8th, 2008, 01:45 PM   #259
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The police is there for the people and they are paid by the same people who they now let down. It's an awful attitude. What's wrong with positive actions, like no fines for a month. Considering the fact that they spent way too time in the ploce stations being inefficient it's a disgrace.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 04:16 PM   #260
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I don't think that you will get the WC..

but good luck
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