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Old November 17th, 2007, 10:46 AM   #21
Arjuch
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Originally Posted by michał_ View Post
I think this whole idea isn't too good. Sorry- I am sure Benelux could easily afford this kind of event. But what sense is there if all the stadiums have to be 40k+ ? How many teams in Benelux can get crowds like that afterwards? Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV, Bruges, Anderlecht and who else? I think after these clubs there is too much of a gap. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And about Japan hosting the WC- I don't understand your feelings about that country, they've got to a point when they can easily host a tournament like that and their football is gaining fans and world mark really fast. Cheers to Urawa Reds for winning ACL by the way
Standard and Genk too

BTW there will be a national stadium for Belgium.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 11:57 AM   #22
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Could that be a serious application? I think Holland and Belgium need at minimum 10 stadiums with minimum 40`000 seats, thats impossible, isn`t it??
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Old November 17th, 2007, 12:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Basel_CH View Post
Could that be a serious application? I think Holland and Belgium need at minimum 10 stadiums with minimum 40`000 seats, thats impossible, isn`t it??
Offcourse it is serieus. I only know the situtation in Belgium. Belgium should have 5 stadiums with a min capacity of 40 000.

Certitudes:
1 Brussels/Anderlecht: 60 000
2 Bruges: 45 000
3 Ličge: 40 000
4 Antwerp: 40 000

For the 5th stadium their are many options: (all 40 000 offcourse)
> Genk: New ring
> Charleroi: New stadium
> Ghent: New ring. (They are going to build a new stadium of 20 000 next year.)
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Old November 17th, 2007, 01:12 PM   #24
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Whilst I think this bid doesn't offer much in terms of facilities (just ten stadiums, most of which will only scrape that disgusting bare minimum of 40,000) I don't entirely write off the Dutch simply because I believe that they are very good organisers and that should be respected.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 01:20 PM   #25
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The Dutch should go for it alone or don't even try.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 01:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michał_ View Post
I think this whole idea isn't too good. Sorry- I am sure Benelux could easily afford this kind of event. But what sense is there if all the stadiums have to be 40k+ ? How many teams in Benelux can get crowds like that afterwards? Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV, Bruges, Anderlecht and who else? I think after these clubs there is too much of a gap. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And about Japan hosting the WC- I don't understand your feelings about that country, they've got to a point when they can easily host a tournament like that and their football is gaining fans and world mark really fast. Cheers to Urawa Reds for winning ACL by the way
I think you're underestimating the popularity of football in the Netherlands and Belgium there. The average attendence in the Dutch eredivisie is 18,000 (almost the same as the average attendence in the Italian Serie A), compared to an average of just 13,000 10 years ago.

I'm pretty sure teams like AZ, Twente, FC Utrecht, Heerenveen and FC Groningen can draw a larger crowd as they currently do. PSV, Ajax and Feyenoord could also draw more people in a larger stadium I think.

Oh yeah, I see that you're from Poland. Do you think Polish teams can fill those new stadiums that'll be built for Euro 2012??
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Old November 17th, 2007, 01:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Quintana View Post
The Dutch should go for it alone or don't even try.
That's rubbish. What would be the advantage of a bid without the Belgians? I dont think we have 10 cities that can sustain a 40k + stadium. Besides, Belgium and the Netherlands already have the experience of euro 2000, and most of us speak the same language.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 01:40 PM   #28
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Okay, let's look at the sellout crowds that are attracted to Dutch football every week: Ajax 50.000, Feyenoord 42.000, PSV 36.000, Heerenveen 26.000, Groningen 20.000, AZ Alkmaar 17.000. Now take the positive trend of the last 10 years and extend it into the future towards 2018. Why couldn't it be possible to have these clubs play in 40~70.000 stadiums afterwards while filling at least 75% of the seats?
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Old November 17th, 2007, 01:54 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Joop20 View Post
That's rubbish. What would be the advantage of a bid without the Belgians? I dont think we have 10 cities that can sustain a 40k + stadium. Besides, Belgium and the Netherlands already have the experience of euro 2000, and most of us speak the same language.
The difference in stadium quality in 2000 between the two countries was shocking. I have no reason to believe this will be any different in 10 years time. Despite Blatter's kind words (he has them for everyone) FIFA will be very reluctant to give the tournament to two hosts. And we could easily sustain ten 40,000 plus stadiums. If a dirt poor country like Portugal could host a Euro on their own, we should be able to host a World Cup. The only problem I foresee is the amount of hotel beds.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 02:12 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Quintana View Post
The difference in stadium quality in 2000 between the two countries was shocking. I have no reason to believe this will be any different in 10 years time. Despite Blatter's kind words (he has them for everyone) FIFA will be very reluctant to give the tournament to two hosts.
You really need to do some reading up then mate.

Construction on new stadiums in Bruges (45k?) and Brussels (60k?) will start in the next few years. The new stadium of Gent (20k) is already under construction, and can be expanded. Moreover, both Antwerp and Liege have shown interest in building new stadiums. So I don't think there will be any gap between the stadiums in the Netherlands and Belgium in 2018.

And Blatter this week stated that he isn't opposed to a joint bid by Belgium and the Netherlands, as long as there's one organizing commitee.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 02:13 PM   #31
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netherlands alone? i don't think so.

belgium has a lot advantages: we don't murder each other. Hooliganism in the past has caused more victims than community problems in belgium (0 so far). This political crisis is the absolute fact that even if the country hasn't a government. It continues rolling.

We are on transport services, culinair,... on top of the world. Life isn't expensive. You can eat dillicious and transport at cost-effective ways.
After heysel, police is sometimes heavy but always in control.
We speak generally 4 languages (Dutch, english, german, french). The dutch are not well in french and german. We have a lot experience in organising: euro 2000, Uefa U 17 championships,...
The stadiums during euro 2000 were in belgium not the best I know. But they were still beter than the stadiums in brazil, italy,... The fans were interacting with the game during euro 2000 in a way i have never seen in recent worl, eurocups.
Come to the cristal arena in genk. You will see that belgium isn't so bad as some dutch people think.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 02:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottooo View Post
I made a Google Map of possible host-cities.

I don't know much about the Belgian host stadiums (red), so I only marked the cities. The Dutch markers (blue) are placed at the (future) sites of the stadium, except Utrecht, which is a guess. It should be near the highway (A2).
Good work ottooo! I've made a map that indicates where the possible host cities are located:

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Old November 17th, 2007, 02:31 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Joop20 View Post
You really need to do some reading up then mate.

Construction on new stadiums in Bruges (45k?) and Brussels (60k?) will start in the next few years. The new stadium of Gent (20k) is already under construction, and can be expanded. Moreover, both Antwerp and Liege have shown interest in building new stadiums. So I don't think there will be any gap between the stadiums in the Netherlands and Belgium in 2018.

And Blatter this week stated that he isn't opposed to a joint bid by Belgium and the Netherlands, as long as there's one organizing commitee.
New stadiums is one, quality stadiums is something else. All the new stands that recently have been build in Belgium are utter crap and the designs for Gent and Brugge look rather cheap to me.

Of course Blatter isn't opposed. The man is always extremely friendly and generous for visiting delegations. If an Icelandic delegation pays him a visit to announce a bid he will welcome it and praise the country for its footballing history as well.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 02:42 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Quintana View Post
New stadiums is one, quality stadiums is something else. All the new stands that recently have been build in Belgium are utter crap and the designs for Gent and Brugge look rather cheap to me.
Good for you that you can judge the quality of a future stadium based on a render (that is far from official in the case of Bruges). Why would Belgians not be able to build quality stadiums, when the rest of the world is able to?

And you should really give me a list of those 10 teams in the Netherlands that can fill a 40k stadium
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Old November 17th, 2007, 02:57 PM   #35
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Well, you can use some temporarily seating if needed. That is exactly what Austria is doing for Euro 2008. Use some 45,000 seaters for the World Cup that you bring down to 35,000 after the world cup.

Rotterdam: De Kuip (monument, can't be demolished), new Feyenoord Stadium
Amsterdam: Amsterdam Arena: 65,000+
Eindhoven: hopefully a new 55,000+ stadium
Alkmaar: could sustain 35-40,000 on a regular basis within 10 years
Enschede: could sustain 35-40,000 on a regular basis within 10 years
Groningen: could sustain 35-40,000 on a regular basis within 10 years
Heerenveen: could sustain 35-40,000 on a regular basis within 10 years
Utrecht: could sustain 35-40,000 on a regular basis within 15 years
Den Haag: host to what is potentially the third club of the country, once they manage to really establish themselves in the Eredivisie again and kick out the hooligan element once and for all they could fill 35-40,000 on a regular basis within 20 years. The support in the city is there, people are currently simply to ashamed to be associated with the club.

Other potential host cities include Arnhem, Nijmegen en Kerkrade although these three probably can't fill 35-40,000 on a regular basis.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 02:59 PM   #36
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And about Japan hosting the WC- I don't understand your feelings about that country, they've got to a point when they can easily host a tournament like that and their football is gaining fans and world mark really fast. Cheers to Urawa Reds for winning ACL by the way
I think you misunderstand. I doubt that anyone disputes the fact that Japan has the capability to host 2018.

The flaw in the idea is that Japan already HAS hosted 2002. Therefore, there's not a chance that Japan will get to host the World Cup again in the next thirty years - either on its own or in conjunction with another country.

In terms of the Asian Football Confederation alone, China and Australia, at the very least, will both be chosen as hosts before Japan gets another chance.

At a rough guess, I would estimate that 2042 is the very earliest that Japan could hope to host the WC again. And, in all probability, it could take quite a bit longer than that.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 03:05 PM   #37
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Then Belgium can do it on their own too ...
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Old November 17th, 2007, 03:12 PM   #38
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Belgium won't be there come 2018.
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Old November 17th, 2007, 03:21 PM   #39
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Belgium will be there for sure, The Netherlands will be flooded by then
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Old November 17th, 2007, 03:23 PM   #40
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Belgium won't be there come 2018.
Do you have some personal grudge against Belgium or Belgians, or are you so negative about them ?

And are you one of those Dutch who thinks that Belgians are not so clever, or why do you think they lack the intelligence to build world class stadiums?
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