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Old July 30th, 2008, 03:18 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by EPA001 View Post
In the Amsterdam ArenA it is possible to add additional seating towards the pitch. That would close the "ditch" between te field and the first tier.
As you can see on the image below, only 2-3 extra rows can be created. Otherwise you would have seating below pitch level, as sometimes is the case in old UK stadiums.



By the way, this is the image I was talking about. It's a private initiative by an architect for a new approx. 70,000-capacity Feyenoord stadium. Sercan posted it in the Dutch stadiums topic over a year ago.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 03:31 PM   #382
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That is true. But there is a more expensive option. That is to decrease the steepness of the first tier from i.e. row 10 or so. A flattened out lower end of the first tier would make it possible to add more rows.
The distance to the pitch from the long side stands to the field would be marginalised in this way. Of course the stands on the short sides of the stadiums, the ones behind the goals, are quite far from the pitch. Such a change would help also there, but I think they would still at least be about 15 meter away from the pitch at those ends of the stadium.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 03:38 PM   #383
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That is true. But there is a more expensive option. That is to decrease the steepness of the first tier from i.e. row 10 or so. A flattened out lower end of the first tier would make it possible to add more rows.
The distance to the pitch from the long side stands to the field would be marginalised in this way. Of course the stands on the short sides of the stadiums, the ones behind the goals, are quite far from the pitch. Such a change would help also there, but I think they would still at least be about 15 meter away from the pitch at those ends of the stadium.
Would it be that expensive to create a steel structure that rest on top of the existing stands? Or would the combined weight be too much?

By the way, on the picture you can see there already is a difference in steepness above and below the vomitories of the lower tier. Or is it optical illusion...?
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Old July 30th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #384
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Unless a real European competition would be erected by the UEFA or by the Clubs themselves!
It's less the form or nature of the competition and more a matter of how UEFA distributes the proceeds. I'd rather that UEFA cover the costs for the participants, give them a bonus based on progression and then distribute the rest to the leagues rather than the individual teams. This would dilute the differences enabled by UEFA competitions without also killing the "golden goose."
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Ajax and the Amsterdam ArenA first wanted to increase the stadium to about 60.000+. They studied that proposal and it was feasable to do it. Then new UEFA regulations came regarding hosting a CL final. These regulations state that the venues which want to organize such an event should at least have 70.000 seats. And Amsterdam wants to organize that CL final in the future again.
As the volume of stadiums worthy of CL finals increases this should be reduced as a priority regarding expansion. I've no doubt Amsterdam would land one or two CL finals in the future, but it might equally realistic to say the time between those would be so vast that the facility could need replacing/great renovations prior to that second event. Especially if Feyenoord plays host once or twice.

Build what suits you as a club and then worry about eligibility for such specialized events. Don't do it in reverse.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 07:49 PM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPA001 View Post
That is true. But there is a more expensive option. That is to decrease the steepness of the first tier from i.e. row 10 or so. A flattened out lower end of the first tier would make it possible to add more rows.
The distance to the pitch from the long side stands to the field would be marginalised in this way. Of course the stands on the short sides of the stadiums, the ones behind the goals, are quite far from the pitch. Such a change would help also there, but I think they would still at least be about 15 meter away from the pitch at those ends of the stadium.
If that’s the case then it should be definitely done along with changing the seats to red + white colouring. How much do you reckon capacity would increase?

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It's less the form or nature of the competition and more a matter of how UEFA distributes the proceeds. I'd rather that UEFA cover the costs for the participants, give them a bonus based on progression and then distribute the rest to the leagues rather than the individual teams. This would dilute the differences enabled by UEFA competitions without also killing the "golden goose."
As the volume of stadiums worthy of CL finals increases this should be reduced as a priority regarding expansion. I've no doubt Amsterdam would land one or two CL finals in the future, but it might equally realistic to say the time between those would be so vast that the facility could need replacing/great renovations prior to that second event. Especially if Feyenoord plays host once or twice.

Build what suits you as a club and then worry about eligibility for such specialized events. Don't do it in reverse.
Firstly I think that an Ajax stadium of 70,000 would be of good size and would be a good fit for a club of its rich history and tradition. I think it's more an act of ambition and a sign of status rather than economical decision to aim for a capacity of 70,000 rather than 60,000, you have to remember Ajax is a huge club and is the sole representative of a huge city both the city and the club wont want to be left behind or out done by their rivals both in Holland and in Europe.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 08:06 PM   #386
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If that’s the case then it should be definitely done along with changing the seats to red + white colouring. How much do you reckon capacity would increase?
I'm guessing this way the capacity could be raised to approx. 56,000 seats.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 08:14 PM   #387
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Thanks well it might only be a minimal expansion but it would get rid of one of faults that this stadium has so it would be well worth it. Another idea I reckon that could be financially enviable to Ajax is possibly putting in a tier of exec boxes or to change a few rows into exec seating at the back of the first tier. If they did this along with adding in a few rows at the front of the stands although capacity wouldn't go up by much it would be a good move financially I’m guessing. I thought I would add this pic for me it’s a great pic of the Amsterdam Arena and it really does look good from the sky

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Old July 30th, 2008, 09:02 PM   #388
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I do not think they have problems with that. PSV can relatively easy expand to the planned +/- 43.000 seats. They have the money and the support of the City if they will go ahead with their plans. PSV fully owns its own stadium, so that makes planning projects a bit easier.
It is not impossible but it is not relatively easily since there isn't a lot of space. Creating an additional 7000 to 8000 seats will be very expensive and since they will be cheapest seats in the house (second tier behind the goal) it will not be worth the investment. They don't have the money either because they already have problems paying of their 90 million mortgage they needed for the last expansion (which only added about 5000 seats) so they want the city to pay for it ("if you want to be a host city you better be willing to pay for it"). Although it has been calculated that Eindhoven has earned an extra 100 million over the last couple of years thanks to PSV (let's be honest, no one would have heard of the place if it wasn't for its football team) the city is not willing the help the club out in any way. In fact, PSV is the only team in Dutch professional football that has never received any public funding.

The best option in my opinion would be to sell the ground of the stadium (it lies it the middle of the city and should be worth tens of millions) and build a new stadium somewhere else with a capacity of 55,000 to 60,000. The problem with this is that there does not seem to be a suitable site within Eindhoven (or at least, that is what the club says).

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Old July 30th, 2008, 10:32 PM   #389
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A quick check via Google maps suggests this may in fact be the case. Their current location affords high levels of accessibility and visibility, so while there's certainly undeveloped land within a reasonable distance, it's another thing entirely to find land that's affordable, available and functional/suitable. My perception* is that the sparsely built land roughly due east of the stadium might provide the best match of location and accessibility, but heaven knows the costs or availability. Given how De Kuip is hemmed in major arterials, the next best option I could conceive is to buy the housing to the southeast and then redirect the stadium 90 degrees along that axis. Would require the redirection of a road, but would yield more space for the stadium. Likely too costly, but an option.

*=Sitting at a desk several 1,000 miles away, and having never been to Eindhoven!
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Old July 30th, 2008, 11:58 PM   #390
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It is not impossible but it is not relatively easily since there isn't a lot of space. Creating an additional 7000 to 8000 seats will be very expensive and since they will be cheapest seats in the house (second tier behind the goal) it will not be worth the investment. They don't have the money either because they already have problems paying of their 90 million mortgage they needed for the last expansion (which only added about 5000 seats) so they want the city to pay for it ("if you want to be a host city you better be willing to pay for it").
I meant "relatively easy" as compared to building a totally new stand or as compared to buidling a new stadium. But you are right, the expansion would not be the easiest one, but also not the most complicated one .

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The best option in my opinion would be to sell the ground of the stadium (it lies it the middle of the city and should be worth tens of millions) and build a new stadium somewhere else with a capacity of 55,000 to 60,000. The problem with this is that there does not seem to be a suitable site within Eindhoven (or at least, that is what the club says).
That probably would be the best solution for PSV Eindhoven. But they are on this site since (I believe) 1913 or so, so tradition is also important. A new site would need a railroad connection. I think there lies the biggest problem for a possible new PSV Eindhoven stadium.

A 50.000 seater would be enough for PSV Eindhoven in my opinion. They have been very successful over the last 10 years, but they are not really turning down many fans as i.e. Manchester United. For games against the smaller teams there are usually still some tickets available, though not much. For the bigger games 45.000 to 50.000 tickets would be enough to cover demand. And if a possible new ground would have even better commercial facilities (the current stadium has excellent commercial facilities already), PSV could make another big step.
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Old July 31st, 2008, 07:52 AM   #391
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I meant "relatively easy" as compared to building a totally new stand or as compared to buidling a new stadium. But you are right, the expansion would not be the easiest one, but also not the most complicated one .



That probably would be the best solution for PSV Eindhoven. But they are on this site since (I believe) 1913 or so, so tradition is also important. A new site would need a railroad connection. I think there lies the biggest problem for a possible new PSV Eindhoven stadium.

A 50.000 seater would be enough for PSV Eindhoven in my opinion. They have been very successful over the last 10 years, but they are not really turning down many fans as i.e. Manchester United. For games against the smaller teams there are usually still some tickets available, though not much. For the bigger games 45.000 to 50.000 tickets would be enough to cover demand. And if a possible new ground would have even better commercial facilities (the current stadium has excellent commercial facilities already), PSV could make another big step.
There is actually a big waiting list for season tickets. The club stopped counting when this list reached 5000. There are always a few tickets available because the club won't sell all seats as season tickets. Even against Excelsior these remaining seats were sold in a matter of hours. The club could probably already sell some 45,000 season tickets at the moment. The only reason not every game is a sell out is because visiting fans usually don't fill their sector.

The club has now split the visitors sector in two sectors of 800. If a visiting club only brings less than 800 fans with them the other sector will be used for the home fans.
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Old August 1st, 2008, 02:57 AM   #392
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I never heard of a waiting list for PSV season tickets! It this is true, and with a possible WC-2018 in mind, they should be planning for a new 50.000 seater in or around Eindhoven and sell the current stadium (the land on which it is built) to the city for redevelopment!
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 04:15 PM   #393
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I took this update from another thread about stadium developments in the Netherlands. But they have everything to do with the possible Belgium-Netherlands WC-2018 bid! So I thought that I should not withheld it from anyone!

[QUOTE=Quintana;23518854]Update from Groningen:





Update from Enschede:



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Old October 6th, 2008, 03:49 PM   #394
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Belgium and The Netherlands are candidates to host the World Cup in 2018.

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http://www.beltomundial.org/
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Old October 8th, 2008, 01:03 AM   #395
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Yes they are. For now officially they are the only candidate, but I am sure that it will not stay like that. It will be a fierce competition where the Belgium-Netherlands bid for sure has a chance, but I would still say that England and Spain are the real favorites to win the right to host the WC-2018! I sure would like it very much if Belgium and The Netherlands would win this though!

With the final probably be in the new Feyenoord Stadium in Rotterdam which should be finished in 2016. With its initial capacity of 80.000+ seats, and the possibility to expand this number to 100.000+, it will be a worthy venue for a WC final!

But more importantly, many stadiums are already "underway" to a minimum capacity of 44.000 seats. Examples are FC Twente Enschede, SC Heerenveen and AZ Alkmaar. PSV Eindhoven wants to increase their stadium to about 47.000 (latest number I have heard). Ajax wants the 70.000 seat version of the Amsterdam ArenA!

Sadly enough the expansion of the Euroborg stadium in Groningen will be limited to 35.133 seats (according to VI magazine, the Dutch leading football magazine). It is very difficult and therefore very expensive to go beyond the 35.000 seats mark. Since the stadium opened in 2006, the city is not going to finance a new one. This will probably exclude Groningen as a possible host city for the WC-2018 unless the club finds a way to buy themselves out of the Euroborg stadium and create a bigger new one elsewhere in the city. The chances that this will happen are very slim imho.

Together with the Belgium plans, although many of which are sadly enough not that far in development as the Dutch counterparts, there will be enough great stadiums to host the WC-2018!
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Old October 8th, 2008, 10:45 AM   #396
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7 Belgian cities are candidates to host the World Cup:
Ghent (currently building a 20,000-seater);
Antwerp (will decide on the location before the end of 2008; 25,000 seats);
Genk (will expand their 25,000cap. stadium to 40,000-45,000, they just need a solution for mobility);
Bruges (final decision expected by the end of this month, 40,000 seats);
Brussels (3 locations still in the running, 50,000-60,000 seats);
Charleroi
Liège: new stadium with 40,000 seats, 2 locations still in the running.

The stadiums in Bruges, Brussels and Liège will be built to full capacity in any scenario, Antwerp, Charleroi, Genk and Ghent (at least two of these cities) will only get a 40,000-seater in case the World Cup is awarded to Belgium and the Netherlands.

Whether B+NL get 10 host cities or 15, this would be a historic World Cup in any case: so many stadiums in an area of only 71,000km²...
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Old October 10th, 2008, 02:46 PM   #397
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It could be a good idea that Belgium and Netherlands could host a FIFA World Cup, almost the half of the teams that participate are europeans countries and people from America could easily go to Europe. It is good that other countries than Italy, Spain, Germany, England and France could host it. Also, Benelux is a rich region
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Old October 10th, 2008, 10:00 PM   #398
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One possible venue in The Netherlands for the WC-2018 will sadly enough not be realised! AZ Alkmaar have scaled down their plans to build a 40.000+ stadium and several office towers and parking garages. For now they will "only" expand from 16.500 seats or so to 30.000 seats. They have informed the city officially that they will not candidate themselves for hosting WC-2018 matches.

The fast development path has proven to be a bit too much I guess! In light of the economic crisis that is no surprise of course. Also the paperwork for the whole development was for now too much work to do. Still the upgrade by itself is good news, even if it is scaled down from 40.000+ to 30.000 seats. They could have cancelled the whole thing as well.

The original plans could still be realised in the more distant future of course, but it will take probably more years then that there is time for the possible WC-2018!
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Old October 11th, 2008, 12:32 AM   #399
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Well done for Belgium and the Netherlands for bidding... But there will be SO much controversy if the English don't get the tournament!
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Old October 11th, 2008, 01:17 AM   #400
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stadium genk now:



there are no official pictures of the expansion of the stadium of genk yet.
Here are some amateur renders of how it could look:



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