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Old February 4th, 2014, 11:07 PM   #881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Interesting comments. It would be interesting to see how they compare in terms of energy efficiency indeed (in a realistic tram setting). It would be even more interesting to see some lify cycle foot print calculation. You'd also have to include the fact that ULF trams apparently need a lot more maintenance than the old units as well as causing more stress to the tracks. I think it is a very good decision that the Wiener Linien are going to switch to another model.

And would be modernization of the motor control be an option? Are old motors compatible with semi-conductor based control?
Yes, it would be really interesting to see the real stats, but at least in Ukraine, trams, unlike railway trains, aren't equipped with electricity meters

Considering lifetime footprint - it should be considered, that low floor trams have lower dwelling times at stops, so in the same schedule it's possible to drive them less "aggressively" (e.g. with less acceleration and braking), thus consuming less energy, compared to classic tram.
And if that aren't to confusing, low-floor trams have higher chances of attracting passenger from auto... All those indirect stuff a so confusing.

There are semi-conductor solutions both for classic DC motors and now popular (for number of reasons) AC. But, I suppose, whenever trams are refurbished, engines are to be changed, or at least, refurbished too.
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Old February 4th, 2014, 11:24 PM   #882
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Ok, maybe someone knows here if the E1 and E2 trams are still using the old technology described above or have been refurbished to semiconductor technology?


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I doubt that. Classic Tatra T3, one of the most numerous trams of the world of 60s-70s-80s weighted 11,5 t per 10 m of length, while 90s-00s Siemens ULF (Vienna modern tram) 12,1-12,3 t per 10 m respectively.
I suppose it just not easy to make trams lighter without making it to fragile... And unlike plains, where mass is lifted and must be provided with enough energy to counterforce gravity pull of Earth, here it rolls using steel wheels on steel, which is really undemanding in energy terms, it consumes even less energy than rolling rubber on asphalt.
Mass is very significant. If it were only to roll on lage distances it would not be that important but trams have to accelerate very frequently an then it is all about mass.
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Old February 5th, 2014, 10:59 PM   #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
I doubt that. Classic Tatra T3, one of the most numerous trams of the world of 60s-70s-80s weighted 11,5 t per 10 m of length, while 90s-00s Siemens ULF (Vienna modern tram) 12,1-12,3 t per 10 m respectively.
I suppose it just not easy to make trams lighter without making it to fragile... And unlike plains, where mass is lifted and must be provided with enough energy to counterforce gravity pull of Earth, here it rolls using steel wheels on steel, which is really undemanding in energy terms, it consumes even less energy than rolling rubber on asphalt.
Yes and no. The main variable of the "weight" factor is axle load.


In my opinion E2 are superior than the ULF, and have been since 2006 overhauled with regenerative brakes. Their simple construction allows for easier maintenance and in winter they are much more comfortable.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 04:13 PM   #884
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

Vienna Line U4 resignalling contract awarded
Tuesday, May 27, 2014

VIENNESE public transport operator Wiener Linien has awarded Siemens a contract worth more than €40m to resignal the 17km U-Bahn Line 4 from Hütteldorf to Heiligenstadt.

Siemens will supply its LZB513 automatic train control Trainguard Sicas ECC interlockings, which will replace five SpDrS-60U interlockings, two of which control the depots at Wasserleitungswiese and Hütteldorf.

The new signalling system will be commissioned in stages between 2016 and the end of 2019.

The resignalling project is part of a comprehensive upgrade of Line U4, which includes the installation of crossovers to allow single line working in the event of a failure or engineering works
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Old June 30th, 2014, 06:37 PM   #885
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

Vienna confirms metro and tram extensions
Monday, June 30, 2014



PLANS for further extensions of the U-Bahn and tram networks in the Austrian capital were officially announced by Vienna city council on June 27

Line U2 will be split to form two lines. The section between Karlsplatz and Rathaus will become part of Line U5, which will be extended north to University of Vienna campus at Altes AKH. The remaining section of Line U2 from Seestadt will be extended south from Rathaus to an interchange with the S-Bahn network at Matzleinsdorfer Platz in the district of Favoriten. Construction will start in 2018 and the project will be completed in 2023.

However, in order to free up funds for the construction of the new sections, the council has decided to defer the planned extension of Line U2 from Karlsplatz to Gudrunstrasse. At a later stage Line U5 could be extended from Altes AKH to Elterleinplatz and Line U2 from Matzleinsdorferplatz to Wienerberg.

By 2018 Line O will be extended from Praterstern to the Nordbahnhof area, where a major urban regeneration project is planned and Line D will be extended from Main Station to Gudrunstrasse by 2019.

There are also plans to extend Line 67 from Reumannplatz to Siedlung Süd-Ost as the line will be truncated once the metro Line U1 extension to Oberlaa opens. Further tram plans include a new Line 15 from Meidling to Altes Landgut and an extension of Line 25 from Aspern to Aspern North. No timescales have been given for the implementation of these projects

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Old July 3rd, 2014, 01:00 AM   #886
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A more detailed map of the U-Bahn extension plan. This map also includes the planned tram extensions of the next years:

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Old July 7th, 2014, 04:45 AM   #887
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The existing Rathaus station currently has side platforms and is underground. It is planned to become an interchange station where Lines U2 and U5 will intersect. That will certainly require some extensive excavation work, or maybe a complete rebuilding of the Rathaus station.
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Old July 7th, 2014, 11:39 AM   #888
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A complete rebuild will be necessary.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 05:56 AM   #889
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Even if it means demolishing some historic buildings to rebuild the station?
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Old July 8th, 2014, 12:58 PM   #890
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I expect the crosslink to be built in a depth that won't affect the surrounding buildings.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 02:10 PM   #891
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Had it been 50 yrs ago, the Austrians would've copied the Swedish way of constructing U-bahn:







Today:



And because of these constructions many tourists believe that Stockholm was bombed to ashes during WW2
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Old July 8th, 2014, 02:57 PM   #892
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Post-war era certainly was the worst thing that ever happend to European cities. WW2 carpet bombing was nothing compared to that.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 10:28 PM   #893
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Actually the Karlsplatz was also a huge U-Bahn construction site. But it was located at a square where few if any buildings were sacrificed. Luckily.

What Stockholm did back then was basically destroying almost all of its Norrmalm old town. The Viennese debate about clearing the Spittelberg was peanuts in comparison (and luckily Spittelberg was preserved, also thanks to some leftist actists). Luckily for Stockholm it got a lot of new protected buildings. Yup, most of Sergels torg is protected nowadays. So it would be illegal to tear down what was built on the torn down old town.

Regarding the Rathausplatz station. I would be more than surprised if they were to sacrifice any of those buildings above it.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 01:50 AM   #894
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Well, there are very few "legally protected" buildings in Sweden. They basically have to be designated "statligt byggnadsminne" (something like national heritage building) for that, and as far as I know, none of the buildings around Sergels torg have that status. What some of them do have is the "blue" classification (the highest on a three level scale), which means that they are considered very important for the cultural environment. That designation isn't an absolute protection against redevelopment, but it does make it much harder to do anything to the building that could harm the cultural values.

You would basically have to have really strong reasons to tear down or substantially alter a building that has been classified as blue.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 09:23 PM   #895
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I see. The "blue" classification was what I saw then. Anyway, it means some level of protection fo that IMHO not terribly pleasing or welcoming urban place that Sergels torg is. (It could be alot worse however, given what the car fanatic post war era created elsewhere)

Luckily Vienna did not tear down the States Opera for a car garage (sounds like madness, doesn't it?) Instead it restored it (with somewhat less opulent interior and orginal exterior) and built an U-Bahn hub below Karlsplatz next to it.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 07:24 PM   #896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotlaufen View Post
Had it been 50 yrs ago, the Austrians would've copied the Swedish way of constructing U-bahn:

<snip>

And because of these constructions many tourists believe that Stockholm was bombed to ashes during WW2
Well, consider what NYC took down to build Penn Station (granted Penn Station was pretty damn impressive):

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Old July 18th, 2014, 03:28 PM   #897
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Here's the sort of destruction Glasgow had during the construction of the M8



A very common theme throughout Europe.
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Old July 19th, 2014, 05:52 PM   #898
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Well, I guess Vienna can consider itself very lucky that there were no such big construction or rather destruction jobs realized. There were plans for an innner city highway network though but where it has been partly realized it only involved turning the southern Gürtel into a hostile traffic hell but without destroying the buildings next to it.

Plans to extend the A1 through the Wien valey as far as to the ring were luckily never realized.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 10:10 PM   #899
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Vienna Tram Depots

I'm undertaking a project that looks for the tram depots of Europe. As far as Vienna is concerned, I've found the following...
1) Tram Depots at FAVORITEN (south side of Gudrunstrasse), FLORISDORF (Peitlgasse/Gerichtsgasse), HERNALS (Wattgasse) and RUDOLFSHEIM (Zollernsperggasse),
2) Tram Parks at BRIGITTENAU (Wexstrasse), GURTEL (Wahringer Gurtel), OTTAKRING (Joachimsthalerplatz), SPEISING (Hetzendorfer Strasse) and SIMMERING (Simmeringer Hauptstrasse).
I believe that there is another Tram Park at KAGRAN, but I can't find in on Google Satelite Maps (you can't do Google Earth in Austria). The Park MAY be under what looks like a incompleted railway bridge (it MIGHT be a depot for the Metro) at the west end of STEIGENTESCHGASSE, a few hundred metres north east of KAGRAN Metro Station. Have I got it right? Also, I'd appreciate it if someone could confirm my list of parks/depots is correct.
Thanks.

Last edited by 43106; September 5th, 2014 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Missed Speising!
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Old September 10th, 2014, 12:51 PM   #900
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A complete list can be found here: http://www.fpdwl.at/fakten/bahnhoefe.php
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