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Old March 12th, 2007, 01:17 PM   #81
JoKo65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
What tact do usual Stadbahn lines have?
That depends on the line. Normally something between 4 and 10 Minutes. But 90 sec. are possible too in case of a Stadtbahn line without Stadtbahn-Vorlauf parts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
The U6 is frequency is 6 min normally. Its also on certain parts underground as you can see above. Furthermore is it run by the same company as the subway. (in contrast to the S-Bahn that is run by the national railway ÖBB).
Stadtbahnen are on certain parts underground too and there are some lines which are completly underground.

Stadtbahn underground (here in Cologne):

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/...K-Muelheim.jpg

http://www.streckenkun.de/fotos/16neumarkt.jpg

Stadtbahnen are run by the city authorities like U-Bahnen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Yes the technology is without 3rd line more of the type of a Stadtbahn. But does that matter? Even if you call the U6 a Stadtbahn therefore, its still used by the people like a subway.
The technology ist nearly the same as used at the Cologne lowfloor Stadtbahn:

http://www.**************/bilder/44309.jpg
http://www.**************/bilder/76765.jpg

And yes, Stadtbahnen are used like subways by the people.

P. S.: Don't mix trams and Stadtbahnen it's a big difference, the term Stadtbahn is often misused!

Last edited by JoKo65; March 12th, 2007 at 01:58 PM.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 01:24 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal_t View Post
Even if you go by stadtbahn definition, the trains are way too long to be 'light'! (I know there's at least 3 of the sets marshalled together to form 1 U6 line train)
Vòila, here is a picture of Düsseldorf's Stadtbahn (3 sets):

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/...renaMesse2.jpg
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Old March 12th, 2007, 02:07 PM   #83
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Stadtbahnen usually don't only run on dedicated lines, correct? Which means they have intersections with individual traffic.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 05:02 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidkunz/VIE View Post
Stadtbahnen usually don't only run on dedicated lines, correct? Which means they have intersections with individual traffic.
Stadtbahnen have dedicated lines, but parts of a Stadtbahn net can be Stadtbahnvorlauf sections, these sections are not independent from street traffic. But it is planned to change them to full Stadtbahn standard. That's the big difference between express trams and Stadtbahnvorlauf sections. Stadtbahnvorlauf is vorläufig (provisionally).
So a Stadtbahn net consists of full Stadtbahn lines, or it consists of a kernel of Stadtbahn sections and of Stadtbahnvorlauf sections. Stadtbahns can be identified by the Stadtbahn kernel, plans to extend this kernel till it encloses the whole net and the usage of Stadtbahn vehicles. Perfect is a net which is completly in Stadtbahn standard. So the U6 in Vienna is a perfect Stadtbahn line but the „Wiener Lokalbahn“ is no Stadtbahn at all for example.
Some cities like Düsseldorf or Bonn have separate tram and Stadtbahn nets. Others like Cologne have a Stadtbahn only.

Last edited by JoKo65; March 12th, 2007 at 05:12 PM.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 08:04 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoKo65 View Post
That depends on the line. Normally something between 4 and 10 Minutes. But 90 sec. are possible too in case of a Stadtbahn line without Stadtbahn-Vorlauf parts.




Stadtbahnen are on certain parts underground too and there are some lines which are completly underground.

Stadtbahn underground (here in Cologne):

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/...K-Muelheim.jpg

http://www.streckenkun.de/fotos/16neumarkt.jpg

Stadtbahnen are run by the city authorities like U-Bahnen.




The technology ist nearly the same as used at the Cologne lowfloor Stadtbahn:

http://www.**************/bilder/44309.jpg
http://www.**************/bilder/76765.jpg

And yes, Stadtbahnen are used like subways by the people.

P. S.: Don't mix trams and Stadtbahnen it's a big difference, the term Stadtbahn is often misused!
Hm, seems to be a quite meaningless differentiation between subway and Stadtbahn then. Unless you look at it from an exclusively technological view.

I am still not sure what makes something to be a Stadtbahn and not a subway. The lack of a third rail and having instead contact wires? To use vehicles that have more in common with trams than with subways? (Whereas this seems to be in a category that is pretty indistinguishable for the average user)


Are Stadtbahnen per definition free of any street crossing on the whole track btw?
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Old March 13th, 2007, 12:21 AM   #86
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Good report again, Thx! One more to go.
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Old March 17th, 2007, 03:51 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Hm, seems to be a quite meaningless differentiation between subway and Stadtbahn then. Unless you look at it from an exclusively technological view.

I am still not sure what makes something to be a Stadtbahn and not a subway. The lack of a third rail and having instead contact wires? To use vehicles that have more in common with trams than with subways? (Whereas this seems to be in a category that is pretty indistinguishable for the average user)
The lack of a live rail is no indicator since some Stadtbahnen have a live rail (London light rail, Moscow light metro). The originally planned Stadtbahn for the Rhine-Ruhr area would have had one too, but they changed the plans (Stadtbahnwagen B [Kölner Bauart] instead of Stadtbahnwagen A). So they today use catenary in this area too.

Today in Germany it is simple to differentiate between Stadtbahn (city way, is the translation) and U-Bahn (underground way) because all german Stadtbahn nets are not complete today that means they are a mixture of Stadtbahn sections (independent) and Stadtbahnvorlauf sections (not independent). But Stadtbahnvorlauf is provisionally (big difference in comparison to a tram) the goal is to achieve pure Stadtbahn standard.
In XX years, when the nets will be completed it can be indeed much more complicated to differentiate between Stadtbahn and U-Bahn.
In the Rhine-Ruhr area and Bielefeld it will be simple because they use the following sign:




In Stuttgart it will be simple too:




In Cologne and Bonn they use the normal U like U-Bahns do, but the Stadtbahn can be identified by it's definition: A Stadtbahn is a system which is in service within a city and/or connects it with other cities. Cologne and Bonn are connected, so we have a Stadtbahn here too.
But what's about Frankfurt or Hannover? Here we will have to look on the rolling stock to make our decision Stadtbahn yes or no.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Are Stadtbahnen per definition free of any street crossing on the whole track btw?
Yes.

I hope I have helped you.
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Old March 17th, 2007, 04:10 PM   #88
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Thanks for that information. But I have to admit, that in my eyes, what you call a "perfect" Stadtbahn is nothing else than a subway.

Whereas the term subway is not as broad as Stadtbahn in my eyes.

Factually its a simple word definition problem. In reality it does not make a difference if its a "perfect" Stadtbahn" or a subway. Does it?

Vienna had an official Stadtbahn not overly long ago. It was what you call "perfect" and never had intersections with streets. This Stadtbah was originally also what this term derives from. A normal (passanger-)railway, through dense urban area.

The official transformation of the Stadtbahn into a subway, brought a big plus in the frequency, comfort and integrity of the whole PT network in Vienna.

In fact today the largest difference between S-Bahn, Stadtbahn and U-Bahn is the frequency. And if this is asame as well, than there is hardly any difference left anymore, in practical terms.
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Old March 18th, 2007, 01:07 PM   #89
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I have forgotten to mention that few german cities misuse the term Stadtbahn and call their tram a Stadtbahn. The only german cities which have Stadtbahn are the following ones:

(cities marked with an * have Stadtbahn and tram)

Hannover
Bielefeld
Dortmund*
Bochum*
Gelsenkirchen*
Essen*
Mülheim/Ruhr*
Duisburg*
Düsseldorf*
Köln
Bonn*
Frankfurt/Main*
Stuttgart*

Last edited by JoKo65; March 18th, 2007 at 06:23 PM.
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Old March 18th, 2007, 01:11 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
[…]
Vienna had an official Stadtbahn not overly long ago. It was what you call "perfect" and never had intersections with streets. This Stadtbah was originally also what this term derives from. A normal (passanger-)railway, through dense urban area.
[…]
Yes, this was the mother of all Stadtbahns, but in comparison to modern Stadtbahn systems it had no sufficient frequency and velocity.
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Old March 24th, 2007, 03:49 AM   #91
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Expect the final part (U1) tomorrow...
YEAH BABY! I'M DONE!
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Old March 24th, 2007, 05:47 AM   #92
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I just returned from Vienna and here are My thoughts on Viennese Transit:

http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/...pe-part-2.html
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Old March 24th, 2007, 04:04 PM   #93
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U-Bahn in Vienna - U1 (Part Five, last one...)





U1

Reumannplatz - Leopoldau

Identification Colour: Red

Length: 14,7 kms
Travel time: 26 mins
Stations: 19
Transfer possibilities: 3 to S-Bahn, 3 to U-Bahn

The line U1 was (not very surprisingly) the first metro line and today features both the oldest (Reumannplatz - Stephansplatz, opened 1978) and the newest (Kagran - Leopoldau, opened in 2006) tracks and stations of the whole network.


Reumannplatz

Change here for:
6, 67
7A, 14A, 66A, 67A, 68A
Regional bus lines



Between Reumannplatz and Südtiroler Platz, U1 follows the Favoritenstraße, which is a pedestrain area:


The inside already looks a little worn:


The U type wagons:




Keplerplatz

Change here for:
14A









Südtiroler Platz

Change here for:
S-Bahn
O, 18
13A, 69A





Type V:




Taubstummengasse






Karlsplatz

Change here for:
U2, U4
1, 2, J, 62, 65, WLB
3A, 4A, 59A

One of the most important exits, the one in front of the State Opera:


The underpass between Karlsplatz and the Ringstraße:


The rather dull platform, the deepest station of the system, 24m below ground:



Stephansplatz

Change here for:
U3
1A, 3A

The entrance in front of the Stephansdom:








Schwedenplatz

Change here for:
U4
N, 1, 2, 21




Nestroyplatz

Change here for:
5A








Praterstern

Change here for:
S-Bahn, Regional Trains (ÖBB)
U2 (starting June 2008)
O, 5, 21, 81
80A
Regional bus lines

The U1 entrance with the train station behind. It is undergoing heavy refurbishment right now for EURO2008:


An approaching V:



Vorgartenstraße

Change here for:
11A







Donauinsel

This station is pretty unusual, as it is integrated iin the Reichsbrücke, one of the principal bridges that span the Danube.
One of the exits opens up the Donauinsel (Danube Island, the other one takes you to the pedestrian level of the bridge and the Kaisermühlen area.







Kaisermühlen - Vienna International Centre

Change here for:
90A, 91A, 92A, 20B
Regional bus lines

The station serving Vienna's UN HQs and the Donaucity highrise cluster:




A northbound train rising from the Reichsbrücke and the Donauinsel station:




Alte Donau

Change here for:
91A



View towards Kaisermühlen:


A southbound train arriving above the Alte Donau, an old branch of the Danube which is a major recreational area today:



Kagran

Change here for:
26
23A, 24A, 25A, 26A, 27A, 31A, 93A, 94A
Regional bus lines

Until September 2006, this station was the northern terminus.






Kagraner Platz

Change here for:
26
23A, 24A, 25A, 31A

It is interesting to see how little the design has changed since 1978 (see the beginning of this report), yet how much nicer and more inviting the 2006 stations look, thanks to the use of lighter, reflecting material for the ground:





Rennbahnweg

Change here for:
25A, 27A






Aderklaaer Sraße

Change here for:
25A, 27A

Don't ask me about the trolleys in these two pics:


I like this entrance:


Displays showing the intervals, standard on the whole system, also on many tram and bus lines:


Facing north, the tracks disappear underground again:




Großfeldsiedlung

Change here for:
28A, 29A







Leopoldau

Change here for:
S-Bahn, Regional and International trains (to SK)
29A, 32A



The tunnel between U-Bahn and S-Bahn:


Up to the S-Bahn, and on my way home...




U2 U3 U4 U6

VIENNA in B/W

Now what to do next? All 30+ tram lines???

I've already got big (and I mean BIG) plans for a next major Vienna photography project. It won't be focussing on PT, but if you like this city, STAY TUNED!!! (and if you don't, even more so...)
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Last edited by Bahnsteig4; March 24th, 2007 at 04:11 PM.
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Old March 24th, 2007, 09:12 PM   #94
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that is sooooo graet!!! thanks!
the interesting thing is that so many of the entrances are of the same kind. even the newest entrances on the north extension of the U1 to Leopoldau seem to be so similar to the rest of the system.

do the new trains serve only the U1 or the other lines too??
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Old March 24th, 2007, 09:31 PM   #95
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The new trains can be found on all lines except for the U6 (as it uses a completely different system) and the U2, where I'd guess it'll be introduced with the opening of the new branch in June 2008.
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Old March 24th, 2007, 09:32 PM   #96
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No I dont think so. On U3 I have seen them already as well.

The old ones will get replaced subsequently by those V models. But I guess we will see both types for quite a while beneath each others.


@davidkunze
Great job once again.

Because you asked yourself what to do next. Well, the logical next thing would be the S-Bahn stations, but I could understand if you need a break from PT stations for a while now
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Old March 25th, 2007, 01:29 AM   #97
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Excellent, as always! I am a bit surprised with the design of the new U1 stations, I did expect something more contemporary
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Old March 25th, 2007, 01:37 AM   #98
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Quote:
I did expect something more contemporary
NEVER expect anything contemporary in this town.
After all, all buildings higher than som 70m are considered highrises here and nearly all development projects are delayed by NIMBYs.
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Old March 25th, 2007, 02:02 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidkunz/VIE View Post
NEVER expect anything contemporary in this town.
After all, all buildings higher than som 70m are considered highrises here and nearly all development projects are delayed by NIMBYs.
Don't tell me, it's much worse here in Zagreb...
Well I expected they'd be at least on the level of the "new" U3 stations... I thought this "round" design of the stations was out after 80s...

I am talking of the interior, ofcourse.
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Old March 25th, 2007, 02:54 AM   #100
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I have to ask. Is the new wagons from Siemens? Do you know anything about them, since the new in Oslo is very similar in color choice and design?
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