Twin Towers Advocacy continued

[TalB]

Originally Posted by NewYorkMantle

pay no attention talb; normal people aren't supposed to be that mean.

The person who took that shot didn't know it was me to begin with.

[cincobarrio]

what does that have to do with the gothamist comments

[TalB]

http://downtownexpress.com/de_244/le...theeditor.html
Volume 20, Number 34 | The Newspaper of Lower Manhattan | Jan. 11 - 17, 2008

W.T.C. deadline

To The Editor:

I am not surprised that the Port Authority missed another deadline to meet the needs of building the new complex (news article, Jan. 4 – 10, “Port misses deadline and says ‘worst’ construction noise is almost over”). Even working nearly a whole day, they were still able to miss it. The new complex would be overbudgetted regardless of whether or not Larry Silverstein won the last number of lawsuits against the insurance firms in the last two years. State Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver even made the claim that without the money needed to build it or the fact that there are no tenants to fill it up, it could just be another false start like the one back in 2004 when the cornerstone was placed in. If it wasn’t for all these debates and disputes about what should go there, then the rebuilt and modified Twin Towers would have been topped out by now as a restoration for the Lower Manhattan skyline.

Tal Barzilai
Pleasantville, N.Y.

[TalB]

Click here to watch a tribute from fellow pro-Towers advocate Steve Golding.

[TalB]

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/pe...on-alternative
WE CAN DO MUCH BETTER — www.WTC2011.com — COMING SOON

The site that is under construction has nothing to do with politics, protest, or The Twin Towers Alliance. What it will convincingly display is that we can do a much better job by rebuilding a World Trade Center that connects us to our past and defines us to the future in a way that makes us proud — and that we can do it ahead of the existing schedule — including a memorial that eclipses the current morbid plan.

The symbolism of the Twin Towers is not something we can afford to neglect. The architect of the real World Trade Center, Minoru Yamasaki, said that “World trade means world peace and consequently the World Trade Center… is a living symbol of man’s dedication to world peace… a representation of man’s belief in humanity, his need for individual dignity, his beliefs in the cooperation of men, and through cooperation, his ability to find greatness.” Have we really given up on all of that?

Twin towers are the visual shorthand for parity, equality, respect — the very core of what was under attack on 9/11. There is every reason to resist the wanton exchange of twin towers for a monolithic obelisk. Replacing the inital vision of peaceful coexistence and mutual prosperity with a single fortress is a trade-off we DO NOT have to accept. It’s actually a good thing that the years since September 11, 2001 were spent spinning our wheels — or we would have gone so much farther in the wrong direction.

An American teenager living outside Dubai, UAE, recently sent us an eloquent message and this plea: “New York wants their castle back, not a bunker… New York needs a crown, not a helmet!”

[TalB]

Just heard that on Youtube there was videos on the construction of the Twins. The documentary dates back to 1983 and was made by the PA of NY/NJ. If you listen it even mentiones how building them represented a new age in engineering, which why the WTC was given the OCEA in 1971. BTW, it did get a lot of stars and was favorited a lot of times. Also, give a round of applause for the pro-Towers comments that were mentioned there along with someone mentioned the TTA petition on one of the parts.

Part 1
Part 2

[redbaron_012]

hmmm did any of you guys get handed this stuff back in September??? The DVD has some interesting points though, I don't believe more than do believe in them......Not sure where I should ..or if I should post this either....
By redbaron_012

[TalB]

Here some interesting facts about the WTC that some here may or may not know about.

1. The WTC opened in 1970 after 8 years of construction.

2. The WTC was the dream of David Rockefeller, chairman of the Chase Manhattan Bank, and Nelson Rockefeller, former Governor of New York.

3. The Rockefellers wanted to name the towers after themselves, but the mayor of NY, John Lindsay, insisted on the World Trade Center.

4. The City chose to build the WTC instead of building a new tunnel and large bridge over the Hudson River.

5. The World Trade Center was designed by architect Minoura Yamasaki.

6. According to Yamasaki, downtown Manhattan was the perfect place to erect the towers because there wasn't "a single building worth saving in the neighborhood."

7. Owners of nearby buildings disagreed, and delayed demolition by three weeks with their protests.

8. Sixteen blocks were cleared to house the completed WTC.

9. More than 10,000 workers involved in building the complex.

10. More than 60 of them died during construction.

11. The excavation work displaced enough soil to create Liberty Park, where four 60-floor towers and four apartment buildings were constructed.

***
Please note "Fact 11" is disputed - YT member "opusbeme" claims it should read Battery Park City !!
***

12. The WTC's foundations were laid at 60 feet below ground level.

13. The complex covered 16 acres when finished.

14. In addition to the towers, five other office buildings made up the WTC complex
The WTC had 12 million square feet of space.

15. Each floor was 50,000 square feet.

16. The buildings had their own ZIP codes - 10047 and 10048.

17. The towers were designed to look like a futuristic sculpture.

18. The structure was revolutionary. Its main supports were external, lining the four corners of each tower.

19. Critics condemned the completed buildings as "boring."

20. Completed, the buildings were 100 feet taller then the Empire State building.

[redbaron_012]

When i looked at the site...and pics I see the concrete retaining walls around the perimeter but wondered why water table level of Hudson nearby doesnt come up from below??? I have seen it refered as the bathtub...but the whole floor of the site wasn't concreted...or as it is now anyway....realise finished buildings..the old or new will seal the water off....? PS....on a couple of TalB's points...couldn't have imagined 2 Rockerfeller Centres in New York ??? and for the demolition of the site to be held up for 3 weeks.....these days protesters seem to hold up stuff like that for months or years...?

[TalB]

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/pe...o-small-dreams
The story of Philippe Petit, the man who danced on a wire between the Twin Towers in 1974, inspired a documentary that was just honored at the 2008 Sundance Festival. Mr. Petit, one of the earliest signers of the Twin Towers Alliance petition, epitomized the audacity and joy that dreaming no small dreams — and then fulfilling them — requires and inspires. There is no stopping a bold and careful plan. Just as the Twin Towers beckoned to Philippe Petit to do the unthinkable and barely imaginable, so they beckon to those of us who continue to believe that it is possible to put them back where they belong. The Towers deserve another chance, and so do we.

[TalB]

Another pro-Towers video was placed on Youtube just recently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmFYz...watch_response

[TalB]

The website hasn't fully launched yet, so expect a newer post when it does.
http://www.wtc2011.com/
Welcome to WTC2011. This page offers another window on the World Trade Center – a vision that reflects the aspirations of a great many people for the site. The photo gallery presented here only begins to portray the possibilities for a WTC that will be a bridge between the future and the past, rather than a radical break. Instead of irrelevance, it offers renewal and inspiration. It is a work in progress that we hope will encourage the close attention that this option deserves out of respect for the American people.

The feasibility of replacing the current plan with the Twin Towers II design is easy to establish. It can go head to head on every metric, including safety, and result in a more economically fruitful and aesthetically pleasing complex. The Twin Towers II plan would be less costly to both build and maintain than the current scheme, with the office, retail, trading, and public spaces more than measuring up in every way.

Most importantly, it is much closer to what the people of New York, the rest of America, and many of the 9/11 family members yearn to see there and it would be a source of true healing and pride. The cosmetics of the design are open to suggestion. The goal of all the effort that has gone into this plan was to establish the profound feasibility of pursuing what has always been the People's Choice. All that stands in the way is the will. The blueprints are ready to go and the site preparation that has been underway needed to be done, regardless of what is built. This plan would actually put us ahead of schedule, not behind.

These images are just a beginning and a lot more is planned for this site. Please check back.

Note: The safety imperative resulted in a total reengineering of the original Twin Towers. The security issues were addressed in the beginning of the design process and therefore there was no need to retrofit the design with an unsightly "bunker." The inner cores are the "bunkers" in this case. In addition, the exterior column rings consist of two layers of two foot thick steel columns joined together resulting in four foot of steel. The windows are to be layered with four layers of lexan and glass. What's more, the location of the towers is a decsive security feature. The memorial complex and the garden inspiration deck create a 250-foot buffer between the Towers and West Street.

[TalB]

Even though these CD covers were around before 9/11 happened, does anyone notice any similarities?

[TalB]

If anyone is pointing fingers at me for the cause of having the FT thread in the Supertalls section closed, they will be making George W Bush look like a genius. It was by posts by others foumrers days after I placed an article based on the current progress. As a matter of fact, I don't even go to that thread these days unless it's to place an article or to answer anyone's questions/comments on it. Be lucky that you guys don't live in Israel, b/c when someone was falsely accussed of something they didn't do, they were sent to the Gaza Strip and were tested on if they would return back alive, and technically it would be Hamas that would be trying to kill them, not those who got them there, though there are talks about lifting that punishment.

[TalB]

Just noticed some more recent videos over on Youtube that are pro-Towers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z036F8sKCW4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0Qb7BdFJNA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmFYzzn-Gww

[TalB]

This is a must attend for anyone who is pro-Towers and is greatly appreciated if you show up that day
http://www.mcny.org/public_programs/all/791.html
Saturday • February 23 • 8:00 AM–6:00 PM

Symposium: Preserving New York Then and Now

This day-long symposium begins with a keynote address by Anthony C. Wood, author of Preserving New York: Winning the Right to Protect a City’s Landmarks (Routledge, 2007), and will feature panel discussions that examine New York City’s preservation movement from past to present. Panel highlights include a conversation between renowned architect Robert A.M. Stern and urban historian Kenneth T. Jackson about preservation’s role in the evolution of New York. Other panel topics include: “Where Did the ‘History’ Go in Historic Preservation?” and “The Media and Preservation: New Media, Old Roles.” The event includes lunch, a book signing, and a cocktail reception. Co-sponsored by the New York Preservation Archive Project (NYPAP). $

Click here for the pdf schedule.

RESERVATIONS REQUIRED

$30 for General Admission

$25 for Museum members, NYPAP Members, Seniors, and Students

For more information please call 212.534.1672, ext. 3395.

[Martin S]

Originally Posted by TalB

Here some interesting facts about the WTC that some here may or may not know about.

1. The WTC opened in 1970 after 8 years of construction.

2. The WTC was the dream of David Rockefeller, chairman of the Chase Manhattan Bank, and Nelson Rockefeller, former Governor of New York.

3. The Rockefellers wanted to name the towers after themselves, but the mayor of NY, John Lindsay, insisted on the World Trade Center.

4. The City chose to build the WTC instead of building a new tunnel and large bridge over the Hudson River.

5. The World Trade Center was designed by architect Minoura Yamasaki.

6. According to Yamasaki, downtown Manhattan was the perfect place to erect the towers because there wasn't "a single building worth saving in the neighborhood."

7. Owners of nearby buildings disagreed, and delayed demolition by three weeks with their protests.

8. Sixteen blocks were cleared to house the completed WTC.

9. More than 10,000 workers involved in building the complex.

10. More than 60 of them died during construction.

11. The excavation work displaced enough soil to create Liberty Park, where four 60-floor towers and four apartment buildings were constructed.

***
Please note "Fact 11" is disputed - YT member "opusbeme" claims it should read Battery Park City !!
***

12. The WTC's foundations were laid at 60 feet below ground level.

13. The complex covered 16 acres when finished.

14. In addition to the towers, five other office buildings made up the WTC complex
The WTC had 12 million square feet of space.

15. Each floor was 50,000 square feet.

16. The buildings had their own ZIP codes - 10047 and 10048.

17. The towers were designed to look like a futuristic sculpture.

18. The structure was revolutionary. Its main supports were external, lining the four corners of each tower.

19. Critics condemned the completed buildings as "boring."

20. Completed, the buildings were 100 feet taller then the Empire State building.

Tal

Fact 1 I would dispute as I took a photograph of the twin towers in August 1971 and though they were full height, they were still very much under construction.

Fact 10 is amazing and shows how site safety has improved in the last 40 years. The idea of sixty people losing their lives would be a major scandal nowadays.

Fact 18 is debatable as the combination of central core and outer structural skin had been used before - in a building in Seattle I believe. However, the WTC did develop the system. It wasn't so much the four corners of each tower as the whole of the external skin that supported the loads.

Fact 19 - I've heard two jokes about the WTC that were current at the time it was being built. One was that the towers were the boxes that the Empire State and Chrysler Buildings came in. Another is that the architect had no idea how to finish the building so the builders just went on adding floors until he could come up with something.

[Martin S]

Originally Posted by redbaron_012

When i looked at the site...and pics I see the concrete retaining walls around the perimeter but wondered why water table level of Hudson nearby doesnt come up from below??? I have seen it refered as the bathtub...but the whole floor of the site wasn't concreted...or as it is now anyway....realise finished buildings..the old or new will seal the water off....? PS....on a couple of TalB's points...couldn't have imagined 2 Rockerfeller Centres in New York ??? and for the demolition of the site to be held up for 3 weeks.....these days protesters seem to hold up stuff like that for months or years...?

Where the towers were built used to be the Hudson River but had been reclaimed by dumping rubbish over the years. The 'bathtub' construction consisted of perimeter walls taken down to the natural rock which allowed all the infill material to be excavated. The water wouldn't come through the floor as it is solid rock.

[redbaron_012]

Martin S thanks for your reply....sounds logical yet when I look at some of the current construction pics with backhoes and graders running around it doesn't look like solid rock ? Maybe they are in the eastern half of the site that had not been excavated as deeply originally because they only had the Plaza and lowrise buildings above ? I've seen pics with the Hudson shoreline just across westside Hwy when the towers were first built but understand long before the original banks of the Hudson were even further east from todays landfill shoreline.PS......The Twin Tower proposal shown in the renders looks very heavy..although the triple fork columns are still at the base they have none of the detail and beauty of the originals....I don't think the twins will be rebuilt but if this design was successful I think it would look nice with a clean, smooth glass facade with shamferred corners and top like crystals still reminicent of the original.

[TalB]

Originally Posted by Martin S

Tal

Fact 1 I would dispute as I took a photograph of the twin towers in August 1971 and though they were full height, they were still very much under construction.

Fact 10 is amazing and shows how site safety has improved in the last 40 years. The idea of sixty people losing their lives would be a major scandal nowadays.

Fact 18 is debatable as the combination of central core and outer structural skin had been used before - in a building in Seattle I believe. However, the WTC did develop the system. It wasn't so much the four corners of each tower as the whole of the external skin that supported the loads.

Fact 19 - I've heard two jokes about the WTC that were current at the time it was being built. One was that the towers were the boxes that the Empire State and Chrysler Buildings came in. Another is that the architect had no idea how to finish the building so the builders just went on adding floors until he could come up with something.

Martin, I didn't come up with those facts, those were most likely taken from either an architect buff at the time or from the PA of NY/NJ.