Twin Towers Advocacy continued

[Daquan13]

Originally Posted by TalB

Even though these CD covers were around before 9/11 happened, does anyone notice any similarities?

I never knew about this one, but I'm willing to bet that it's hard to find NOW.

[TalB]

Just months before the attacks there was a game where the player had shoot at planes that were heading towards the Twins, and the would have been good if that was done in real life to stop the impacts.

[TalB]

Although I wanted to show this sooner, this was on the World Trade Center Developes thread over at Wired NY in how they relate the official plans to the Twins and shows the biases there.

"I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10": They are pretty much saying that original WTC is replaceable despite how symbolic they were.

"While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10": They are playing the design card on if the Twins or obsolete, while the FT is the future as way convince support.

"I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10": In otherwords they are a yesman to this project despite what picked it.

"I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10": Again this goes back to the yesman statement as if it must be supported in the claim that the site will just be a memorial or left undeveloped rather than having the Twins rebuilt.

"I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.": This is a common stereotype on pro-Towers advocates like myself and just b/c I would want the Twins rebuilt doesn't mean that I am stopping others from wanting the FT, plus I am not against the latest everything just for wanting them back not to mention that the Restoration Alternative does imply that they would have to use updated engineering and not was used in the 1960's.

[nygirl]

Originally Posted by TalB

Although I wanted to show this sooner, this was on the World Trade Center Developes thread over at Wired NY in how they relate the official plans to the Twins and shows the biases there.

"I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10": They are pretty much saying that original WTC is replaceable despite how symbolic they were.


And that is their opinion. What? You can't respect that? You had to bring it into SSC just to show us you think their "biases"? I think you are the king of being biased. Why don't you just tell them over there? Your signature is total BS. Yes the twins are replaceable cuz guess what, they're getting replaced, jeez you need to deal with it and movew on.


"While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10": They are playing the design card on if the Twins or obsolete, while the FT is the future as way convince support.


Isn't that still their opinion? The style of the twins is outdated ( Truth) The design for the NWTC better? ( Subjective) but I'd agree.

"I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10": In otherwords they are a yesman to this project despite what picked it.

So fking what?



"I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.": This is a common stereotype on pro-Towers advocates like myself and just b/c I would want the Twins rebuilt doesn't mean that I am stopping others from wanting the FT, plus I am not against the latest everything just for wanting them back not to mention that the Restoration Alternative does imply that they would have to use updated engineering and not was used in the 1960's.

The restoration alternative is moot.. The twins aren't being restored to their former glory, they exist in your heart and mind.
Did you get booted off of wiredny or something? Why bring this nonsense here?

[TalB]

Originally Posted by nygirl

And that is their opinion. What? You can't respect that? You had to bring it into SSC just to show us you think their "biases"? I think you are the king of being biased. Why don't you just tell them over there? Your signature is total BS. Yes the twins are replaceable cuz guess what, they're getting replaced, jeez you need to deal with it and movew on.

If you knew exactly how the FT was picked to begin with, then you would understand why pro-Towers advocates like myself are fighting against. I insist you look at the causes rather than the effects. Just placing the choices with comparison with the Twins is like trying to say its expendable and an indirect thanks to Osama Bin Laden.

Isn't that still their opinion? The style of the twins is outdated ( Truth) The design for the NWTC better? ( Subjective) but I'd agree.

Thank you for prooving my point that FT supporters play the design card to promote it.

So fking what?

Using profanity is not a way to make a debate, plus you humilaited yourself by saying that.

The restoration alternative is moot.. The twins aren't being restored to their former glory, they exist in your heart and mind.
Did you get booted off of wiredny or something? Why bring this nonsense here?

With the fact that the so-called official plan is being overbudgeted it can make the Restoration Alternative become more likely b/c it would be a lot cheaper financially. For the record, they did quote some things that I had mentioned on wanting the Twins rebuilt and used them to make stereotypes against against me. On a sidenote, Norman Order always places something on his blog everyday to state why he doesn't like the project, so this helps states what is being missed on the WTC site.

[BradRousse]

I pledged myself not to post in this thread out of respect for you, Tal, but... I feel the need to speak my peace. I ask you to, just for this message, ignore our previous arguments and just hear (or, well, read) me out. I understand I have been a royal jerk at times, but... I just want to say my peace.

Let them go.

I understand completely how you feel. I know how much it hurts to have something you hold attention lost. I was never a fan of the World Trade Center, as I've mentioned, nor did what I lose cause the deaths of thousands of people. But, there were structures back home in Windham I really liked. There was a water tower I played under, that I used as a landmark to locate things in my town. It was torn down. I was hurt, but I learned to keep the memories I had. There was a church I performed my first play in; it was torn down to make for a new church. Again, it hurt, but I had to move on.

I myself advocated for restoration for two years at least after 9/11. I don't quite know why, it was a number of reasons. But, I had others things in my life that were a mess that I needed attending to, so it became less of a priority. And I knew, deep down, that I had no control of the site, and the best we can do is see what happens. I disliked the Libeskind plan too, but the way it's evolved, I'm happier with it. I also like a lot of the renderings we've seen of it fitting into the skyline. So, while I don't know if it's the BEST thing about the site, I'm okay with it.

I want you to just let me politely point out your citing of the Restoration Alternative. The concrete is being poured, steel's in place, and the place is a buzz of activity. You're suggesting that, tomorrow, Silverstein or the Port Authority or whoever will suddenly wake up and throw aside work that's already costing millions, have it all torn down, rearrange the site, and order all new supplies and equipment. This scenario means further delays, further lack of income for many involved and more "why is there still nothing there?!" from New Yorkers. It's impractical. I'm trying to say this more politely than others, but... the Twin Towers are gone, Tal. And they're not coming back. Lord knows we all wish 9/11 didn't happen, but it did. And the world lost 2880+ people. That's what we need to remember.

Despite what you think, Tal, I don't, like, hate you. Sure, I've gotten... flustered at some of your comparisons, or saying you'd sign materials as "Osama bin Laden", and some other incidences. But, I don't hate you. If there's anyone pro-restorations that DOES truly inspire revulsion, it's Alex Butziger. You've never said, unlike him, that the Trade Center is the only human achievement that matters, and you certainly haven't disgusted me like he has by repeatedly and openly wishing the Statue of Liberty was destroyed on 9/11 instead.

No, Tal, I respect your passion, your determination, and your knowledge of New York. Even if it doesn't always look it, I do respect all that. And I openly confess I haven't been the nicest person, and I can't take it back.

But, above all, I want to give you a warning: Let them go before it's too late. If you hold onto them like you have, they'll drag you down into a well of despair. It'll consume your life, your every thoughts, and all your energy. You'll spend the rest of your life bemoaning this. IT'S NOT WORTH IT, TAL. NO building is worth it. Not the Trade Center, not the ESB, or any other skyscraper you could name. It's not worth sacrificing your happiness for this. You're already teetering since the reason you've been banned from so many boards is your continuing calls for restoration.

Do you need to, like, forget your enjoyment of the towers? Of course not! But, there's other ways you can commemorate them. You have, like, hundreds of pictures. And you obviously know the buildings like the back of your hand. You could create a lovely virtual museum for the World Trade Center, and obviously include a section discussing how you feel about what happened in reconstruction. You would let them live on, Tal. Hell, I've done my own research on the towers for Fordham papers... I'd be more than happy to contribute research or proofed essays or whatever.

Well, that's about all I wanted to say... all I could say. I actually do care about you, Tal, and I don't want to see you focus your life on this. You're too good for that.

Just... think about it, okay? Please? That's all I ask of you.

Peace.
-Brad

[nygirl]

Originally Posted by TalB

If you knew exactly how the FT was picked to begin with, then you would understand why pro-Towers advocates like myself are fighting against. I insist you look at the causes rather than the effects. Just placing the choices with comparison with the Twins is like trying to say its expendable and an indirect thanks to Osama Bin Laden.

What the hell does it matter if we are getting something truely amazing to the standards of 2008, not 1968. Who really cares if there was some great injustice in the way this new trade center was chosen? Maybe those who you could consider 'the losers' who just won't be getting what they want. It is honestly kinda selfish. What did you have to do with the construction of the World Trade center? When did you work in it? Did you know anyone who may have been killed in it? Do you live right beneath it? Not that it makes a huge difference but its just sentimental value you hold onto and if that is all you got going other than your dramatic "it comes out of my taxes routine" then boo hoo. I do understand why pro advocacy people like yourself are fighting against it and I think it is an absolute bullshit reason that you pick at to death and beat like a dead horse. No sympathy whatsoever for you cry babies.. live and let live.
Also you know what? The adminstrs warned you in the past not to make reference or playfully thank osama bin laden for the construction of the new world trade center...

here is the same message that mod gave to you:

Page 16 of the last advocacy thread I believe..

You can't seem to thank osama bin laden enough for our new world trade center though and you will most likely slip up again. BTW I was saving that quote for the exact comment you mentioned regarding Osama Bin Laden../ how disrespectful to the rest of us.




Thank you for prooving my point that FT supporters play the design card to promote it.

You are very welcome.. You also prooved my point that you are a hypocritical drone that does not respect others views but expects others to respect yours. Proof by quoting members of a site you more than likely got kicked off here just because you can't post your self gratifying responses there. No you do not respect the views of others case in point: you would constantly bombard the "Pro NWTC construction thread" with your oppositional remarks, theories, and wtc advocacy crap when it wasn't asked for, nor needed every 4 days or so , so that new posters can see. It is amazing you even lasted this long. No you are not telling us not like the new wtc but you are condeming us for playing the design card>? Why because we would rather see something different? Pityful

Using profanity is not a way to make a debate, plus you humilaited yourself by saying that.


I know you cannot tell emotion by just the text but for the most part everything I put down in words in here is done in good humor and with a light head. So I don't know what kind of life you live that you think I would actually feel humiliated in a web forum around a bunch of screen names I don't even know. No I am not humiliated, sorry to get your hopes up but I don't break that easily especially not online. Why do you actually feel that one should feel personally humiliated on this site?> Sad really. This is not a debate either, you add little value to any of these arguements other than the same tired tale..nor do I want to debate it.

With the fact that the so-called official plan is being overbudgeted it can make the Restoration Alternative become more likely b/c it would be a lot cheaper financially. For the record, they did quote some things that I had mentioned on wanting the Twins rebuilt and used them to make stereotypes against against me. On a sidenote, Norman Order always places something on his blog everyday to state why he doesn't like the project, so this helps states what is being missed on the WTC site.

Talb, its like a one in a million chance that the developers that own and operate that site, the same developers that could give a crap about you or how you feel about their site when you contribute little to nothing towards it will swith their plans in favor of the originals. Like they are really going to say we are over budgeting lets be more economical and build giant slabs like there used to be. Why should they do that? I'll tell you why...... Because a small group of self righteous twin tower groupies will throw a tantrum if you don't. And then they will call you silver-fraud or terrorist negotiators or some other ridiculous name. I like how you call it a so called official plan>? So what's cooking on the back burner if you don't mind me asking? The original blue prints from the 60's? Get real, those are off the back burner and sitting in the cabinets collecting cob webs. It is--------- way over for you guys. Of course the people at wiredny used what you said and made stereotypes. Head over to ssp and lurk around there if you aren't already. I think they still call people out on pulling a 'talb' every once in a while in the New York section. You are more than likely to make more 'enemies' than friends on websites like this, where the majority wants to see what is proposed, erected.


You have yourself a good one.

[TalB]

Originally Posted by BradRousse

I pledged myself not to post in this thread out of respect for you, Tal, but... I feel the need to speak my peace. I ask you to, just for this message, ignore our previous arguments and just hear (or, well, read) me out. I understand I have been a royal jerk at times, but... I just want to say my peace.

Unlike some others, at least you tend to be more subtle to this.

Originally Posted by BradRousse

Let them go.

I understand completely how you feel. I know how much it hurts to have something you hold attention lost. I was never a fan of the World Trade Center, as I've mentioned, nor did what I lose cause the deaths of thousands of people. But, there were structures back home in Windham I really liked. There was a water tower I played under, that I used as a landmark to locate things in my town. It was torn down. I was hurt, but I learned to keep the memories I had. There was a church I performed my first play in; it was torn down to make for a new church. Again, it hurt, but I had to move on.

However, the big difference is that the Twins were a symbol to the world, and just building something totally different is like showing how expendable they can be.

Originally Posted by BradRousse

I myself advocated for restoration for two years at least after 9/11. I don't quite know why, it was a number of reasons. But, I had others things in my life that were a mess that I needed attending to, so it became less of a priority. And I knew, deep down, that I had no control of the site, and the best we can do is see what happens. I disliked the Libeskind plan too, but the way it's evolved, I'm happier with it. I also like a lot of the renderings we've seen of it fitting into the skyline. So, while I don't know if it's the BEST thing about the site, I'm okay with it.

Just b/c I devoted myself for fighting for this cause, doesn't mean that I was on this 24-7. In the last seven years I was over at my college taking classes for my major. For the record, the amount of time I spend a day for calling the Twins rebuilt is actually less than anything else I do for that day. Other pro-Towers advocates do have jobs and lives just like I do. As for the official plan, it was never supported by the people and slammed constantly at hearings that I was witness to, plus there were even letters in the media condemning it including the fact that it ranked dead last on the Imagine NY poll. Changing it doesn't hide the fact on how it was chosen or the other lies it represents hence it won't change my position.

Originally Posted by BradRousse

I want you to just let me politely point out your citing of the Restoration Alternative. The concrete is being poured, steel's in place, and the place is a buzz of activity. You're suggesting that, tomorrow, Silverstein or the Port Authority or whoever will suddenly wake up and throw aside work that's already costing millions, have it all torn down, rearrange the site, and order all new supplies and equipment. This scenario means further delays, further lack of income for many involved and more "why is there still nothing there?!" from New Yorkers. It's impractical. I'm trying to say this more politely than others, but... the Twin Towers are gone, Tal. And they're not coming back. Lord knows we all wish 9/11 didn't happen, but it did. And the world lost 2880+ people. That's what we need to remember.

Brad, I didn't say that they will do this tomorrow or even next week, I actually said it would be in the next few months when discovering their fiscal record for the quarter. Everytime they said they were going to start it, they held it back to due to financial and economic issues and missed their own deadlines. Those claims on the money needed wasn't originally made by me or any other pro-Towers advocates, they were made by NYS Speaker Sheldon Silver in a statement he made to Daniel Doctroff over at 7 WTC in his mentioning for a premature start w/o the money needed or even tenants filling in the place not to mention leaving it as an empty shell. I won't be surprised if I hear around June that fiscal issues will lead to another delay, and it's not too late for Elliot Spitzer to change his mind especially when he condemned the FT and even said that it wasn't economically feasible. These days concrete pouring can say anything, b/c I have seen projects that were halted or cancelled when that occurred. While I do understand the death of nearly 3,000 people that day, rebuilding the Twins wouldn't be trying to disrespect them. Skyscrapers are not living, so they can be ressurected, and let's not forget when the Brown Bldg was rebuilt as it was before the Triangle Shirtwaste Factory incident in 1911 and with better safety modifications, so the same can be here. Why must one remember when one can rebuilt? BTW, the foundation for the FT can be used for the Twins if it gets scrapped, and they can even modify it so that it can be possible.

Originally Posted by BradRousse

Despite what you think, Tal, I don't, like, hate you. Sure, I've gotten... flustered at some of your comparisons, or saying you'd sign materials as "Osama bin Laden", and some other incidences. But, I don't hate you. If there's anyone pro-restorations that DOES truly inspire revulsion, it's Alex Butziger. You've never said, unlike him, that the Trade Center is the only human achievement that matters, and you certainly haven't disgusted me like he has by repeatedly and openly wishing the Statue of Liberty was destroyed on 9/11 instead.

I don't hate you either Brad. It's not that I am aginst those who disagree withme , it's those who have called me names for what I support or opposse. Those facts that I have listed where not from me, they were from someone else and probably at the time they were being new. It's no lie that they were the first skyscrapers to use kangaroo cranes. At it's time, they were considered to be advanced building. Prewar skyscrapers didn't have those type of cranes and used scaffolding all the way along with derrick cranes that are only used for foundation today. As for that statement by Alex Butziger, that was something he was entitled to, and there are people who still believe that the Twins were the greatest achievements in skyscrapers b/c at the time much of what exists today was becoming a reality, which is what brought a change to life. Paul Goldberger used to write that they were said big that one could fly a plane into them as if he was expecting this, plus he even denied most of the process in his book "Up From Zero" in trying to pass it off as being the public's support when it wasn't. I am not saying that anyone actually said this, I am saying that they made indirect claims to saying this. If they really did like those towers, then they would fight tooth and nail to have them back rather than just allowing for them to be gone forever like the ESB if it was destroyed or even the Sears Tower over in Chicago. Should those living by the Atlantic Yds or Columiba University as well as working in Willets Pt just allow for some developer to kick them out rather than fight to keep their place? It seems by your logic, projects are just inevitable and shouldn't be contested, and I wouldn't be surprised if anyone here that supports the FT would have told Jane Jacobs that the LOMEX would happen if they were living at the time. Nevertheless, I don't think anything should be destroyed, and being from Israel, I know what it's like to loose someone in a terrorist attack.

Originally Posted by BradRousse

No, Tal, I respect your passion, your determination, and your knowledge of New York. Even if it doesn't always look it, I do respect all that. And I openly confess I haven't been the nicest person, and I can't take it back.

But, above all, I want to give you a warning: Let them go before it's too late. If you hold onto them like you have, they'll drag you down into a well of despair. It'll consume your life, your every thoughts, and all your energy. You'll spend the rest of your life bemoaning this. IT'S NOT WORTH IT, TAL. NO building is worth it. Not the Trade Center, not the ESB, or any other skyscraper you could name. It's not worth sacrificing your happiness for this. You're already teetering since the reason you've been banned from so many boards is your continuing calls for restoration.

As I have already stated in the first segment, that I am not doing this 24-7, so I won't bother to repeat it here.

Originally Posted by BradRousse

Do you need to, like, forget your enjoyment of the towers? Of course not! But, there's other ways you can commemorate them. You have, like, hundreds of pictures. And you obviously know the buildings like the back of your hand. You could create a lovely virtual museum for the World Trade Center, and obviously include a section discussing how you feel about what happened in reconstruction. You would let them live on, Tal. Hell, I've done my own research on the towers for Fordham papers... I'd be more than happy to contribute research or proofed essays or whatever.

Brad, I have never stopped anyone from leaving the fight to have them back, I just let those people head for the door if they wish to give up. That was a decision to made by them, and not by me. The WTC Picture thread is one of them, and there have been others who have commerating them as well. Again, I feel that's it better to rebuild our skyline rather than to reimagine it. I will continue to be writing letters to the media as well as attending events that are involved with it. Even more recently, there are videos over on Youtube calling for them to be rebuilt and even got comments supporting them. It really shows how much the support has gotten lately.

Originally Posted by BradRousse

Well, that's about all I wanted to say... all I could say. I actually do care about you, Tal, and I don't want to see you focus your life on this. You're too good for that.

Just... think about it, okay? Please? That's all I ask of you.

Peace.
-Brad

Brad, I find it better that I just worry about what I do rather than having someone else doing it.

[BradRousse]

All right... if that's truly how you feel about this, I'm not going to stop you. I said my peace, and I'll only message you if you respond to me directly.

I hope you find happiness, Tal. Regardless of what's there or not.

[Daquan13]

Originally Posted by BradRousse

I pledged myself not to post in this thread out of respect for you, Tal, but... I feel the need to speak my peace. I ask you to, just for this message, ignore our previous arguments and just hear (or, well, read) me out. I understand I have been a royal jerk at times, but... I just want to say my peace.

Let them go.

I understand completely how you feel. I know how much it hurts to have something you hold attention lost. I was never a fan of the World Trade Center, as I've mentioned, nor did what I lose cause the deaths of thousands of people. But, there were structures back home in Windham I really liked. There was a water tower I played under, that I used as a landmark to locate things in my town. It was torn down. I was hurt, but I learned to keep the memories I had. There was a church I performed my first play in; it was torn down to make for a new church. Again, it hurt, but I had to move on.

I myself advocated for restoration for two years at least after 9/11. I don't quite know why, it was a number of reasons. But, I had others things in my life that were a mess that I needed attending to, so it became less of a priority. And I knew, deep down, that I had no control of the site, and the best we can do is see what happens. I disliked the Libeskind plan too, but the way it's evolved, I'm happier with it. I also like a lot of the renderings we've seen of it fitting into the skyline. So, while I don't know if it's the BEST thing about the site, I'm okay with it.

I want you to just let me politely point out your citing of the Restoration Alternative. The concrete is being poured, steel's in place, and the place is a buzz of activity. You're suggesting that, tomorrow, Silverstein or the Port Authority or whoever will suddenly wake up and throw aside work that's already costing millions, have it all torn down, rearrange the site, and order all new supplies and equipment. This scenario means further delays, further lack of income for many involved and more "why is there still nothing there?!" from New Yorkers. It's impractical. I'm trying to say this more politely than others, but... the Twin Towers are gone, Tal. And they're not coming back. Lord knows we all wish 9/11 didn't happen, but it did. And the world lost 2880+ people. That's what we need to remember.

Despite what you think, Tal, I don't, like, hate you. Sure, I've gotten... flustered at some of your comparisons, or saying you'd sign materials as "Osama bin Laden", and some other incidences. But, I don't hate you. If there's anyone pro-restorations that DOES truly inspire revulsion, it's Alex Butziger. You've never said, unlike him, that the Trade Center is the only human achievement that matters, and you certainly haven't disgusted me like he has by repeatedly and openly wishing the Statue of Liberty was destroyed on 9/11 instead.

No, Tal, I respect your passion, your determination, and your knowledge of New York. Even if it doesn't always look it, I do respect all that. And I openly confess I haven't been the nicest person, and I can't take it back.

But, above all, I want to give you a warning: Let them go before it's too late. If you hold onto them like you have, they'll drag you down into a well of despair. It'll consume your life, your every thoughts, and all your energy. You'll spend the rest of your life bemoaning this. IT'S NOT WORTH IT, TAL. NO building is worth it. Not the Trade Center, not the ESB, or any other skyscraper you could name. It's not worth sacrificing your happiness for this. You're already teetering since the reason you've been banned from so many boards is your continuing calls for restoration.

Do you need to, like, forget your enjoyment of the towers? Of course not! But, there's other ways you can commemorate them. You have, like, hundreds of pictures. And you obviously know the buildings like the back of your hand. You could create a lovely virtual museum for the World Trade Center, and obviously include a section discussing how you feel about what happened in reconstruction. You would let them live on, Tal. Hell, I've done my own research on the towers for Fordham papers... I'd be more than happy to contribute research or proofed essays or whatever.

Well, that's about all I wanted to say... all I could say. I actually do care about you, Tal, and I don't want to see you focus your life on this. You're too good for that.

Just... think about it, okay? Please? That's all I ask of you.

Peace.
-Brad

My feelings are the same.

Even though others might have their own thoughts and views.

[TalB]

Originally Posted by BradRousse

All right... if that's truly how you feel about this, I'm not going to stop you. I said my peace, and I'll only message you if you respond to me directly.

I hope you find happiness, Tal. Regardless of what's there or not.

Putting symbolism aside, there were probably people who were rallying and circulating petitions for that church and water tower that got demolished in the end. This is not b/c they had nothing better to do, it was b/c they cared about how important they were. If more had joined them or had the politicians taken their concerns, those would still be there today. The same could go for Greenwich Village almost loosing the Jefferson Market Courthouse back in the 1960's, but their protests saved it. Jane Jacobs didn't really have to protest against the LOMEX, b/c her property wasn't on that planned route that Robert Moses wanted, but she fought against it anyway b/c she cared about those who were going to be displaced by it. I am not saying that the demolition of Radio Row for the WTC was justified, but I am saying that it was for a public use, and this is nothing similar to what has been going on at the Hudson Yds, Atlantic Yds, Willets Pt, and around Columbia University, which would all be privately owned if built. The problem is, and will always be, that politicians have a history of siding with developers and planners, plus they ignore what the public thinks about it. Unfortunately, what is being done now is pretty much the only to get them to understand. As for the WTC site, time and time again I ask for people to give me proof where the public actually supported the FT to disproove that they wanted the Twins, and many of those just went on the all out defensive rather than providing stats that I have used to proove my point. Did Pataki really name it the FT b/c he used the 'freedom' to pick it over the public decision and input? No offense, but most people here most likely did not know how it was picked, and assume that the public really liked it when they really didn't, and I was a witness to those hearings myself, so I can't be lying about that.

[TalB]

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/pe...ng-for-america
The American people want a World Trade Center worthy of the name. What we are getting instead is an insult and embarrassment. Twin Towers that never rise again would be the preeminent symbol of a vanquished America — evidence of our decline. The current plan reeks of timidity and advertises that we will never dare to be daring again. Most of us can see that. The so-called National September 11th Memorial is another travesty of irrelevance and corruption. All of this is the sorry result of sidelining the people in favor of the not-so-special interests. It is proof that arrogance and public service do not go hand in hand.

For almost two years the TTA has been engaged in a daily struggle to bring the truth of what is going on to the public’s attention in the face of widespread distortions. The official logo of the rebuilding effort, which is plastered all over the WTC site, shows the Twin Towers wrapped in the American flag. This is a dishonest subliminal message that we are rebuilding the Twin Towers, when in fact we are doing nothing of the sort. This characteristic of the sneaky way the issue has been misrepresented from the start.

What is happening at Ground Zero is WRONG FOR AMERICA — it was wrong yesterday, it is wrong today, and it will be wrong tomorrow. So what are we going to do about it? As we have often pointed out, the supporters of this cause are remarkably bipartisan, making this the natural starting point for the American people to come together to reassert our power over those who manipulate us and who treat us as second-class citizens. If we are serious about controlling our own destiny, then we have to challenge the vested interests that have hijacked our system. So, LET IT BEGIN HERE.

The forces that are entrenched at Ground Zero are typical of what’s wrong with our country. In straightening out this mess, we will be strengthened to tackle everything that needs correcting across the nation. The media has given this fake World Trade Center such an air of inevitability that objecting may seem like a losing battle. But that’s only how it seems, NOT how it is. George Washington lost most of the battles of the American Revolution and then won the war. What kept him fighting? What kept his soldiers fighting? Spirit and conviction — and we’re strong on both.

Those who are behind the profit-driven, agenda-driven plan for Ground Zero are trying to overpower us. They are animated by neither spirit nor conviction, but just a sense that they can do whatever they want and no one can stop them. We are by no means anti-business/anti-profits, but there are higher priorities at the site of the most lethal attack in our history. A rogue governor, spineless politicians, and an array of selfish interests have made a mess of things, but whatever it takes, we can get this turned around. We can do it. And anyone who thinks we can’t or wonders why we would bother should think again.

This nation was founded on trust in the good sense of the people. That is the key to our greatness. We can’t leave it to official America or corporate America to use our country as their private vehicle to take them wherever they choose to go. Coming together to win back our Towers will bring tremendous dividends and leave us with thrilling proof for the future that the American people are in charge of their country.

If you want to be part of this fight, we need all the help we can get:

1. Please make it a priority to watch our video tribute to the Twin Towers — Dream No Small Dreams — and then send it to at least ten others and ask them to forward it on. If you can take the time to mark it a Favorite, rate it, and leave a comment, that would be most helpful and could bring it to the attention of the YouTube officials for wider promotion.

2. Contribute whatever you can – it’s tax deductible and it goes 100% to promotion. And we have some very effective plans just waiting for the means to carry them out.

3. Check out the Restoration Alternative page on our website for information on a new site that is going to make it clear that we can do a much better job of rebuilding the World Trade Center and there is nothing hypothetical about it.

4. Go to our CafePress shop where you can order bumper stickers and other items that will help raise the profile of the effort to rebuild the Twin Towers.

On this Presidents’ Day, please choose to stand with us and be part of something that will raise Americans’ spirits as nothing else could.

Our warm thanks for your continuing support.

The Twin Towers Alliance

[redbaron_012]

Look it's too hard to explain right now as in 2008 you would have trouble believing me anyway ...but just read this and know I got it from a reliable source..OK....In 2095 it has been announced that the present buildings are in need of replacement and in Memory of the Centenary of 9/11 2001 the Twin Towers of the WTC will be rebuilt with current technology....the originals although average height were tall for their time..in fact tallest buildings on earth at the time of completion. They are to be Officially openned on Sept.11 2101....Now you can all just go on with your lives knowing it will happen....History just takes it's own time that's all......

[nygirl]

^ Lol. Nice, See tal in 2101 your dream may come true. What I would like to know though, and I really am curious about are the effective plans your people at the twin towers alliance have planned out for a site they do not own nor can they own. As short as you can, please explain.
Are you guys in cahootz with Silverstein and the PA?

[Daquan13]

Nothing against TalB at all for WANTING the Twins rebuilt, but what's up with this bogus
alliance that keeps on insitsting that the old towers can be reborn?

I'd like to know just what they are smoking or drinking so that I can get loaded too!

[TalB]

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/pe...for-the-record
For The Record

The following comment was left on this Presidents’ Day by Spencer Schwartz, who signed under Other NYC Responders & Families:

Looking at our skyline without the Twin Towers is something we should never see again. I am disgusted by their recent plans, this “Freedom Tower” bull. I never thought I would say this, but Donald Trump was right. Build the Twin Towers again, but one story taller. I cannot think of any other plan giving more tribute to our lost brothers and sisters we lost that terrible day.

We think that reflects the frustration a great many New Yorkers feel and is how most people see this awful situation. That is what has made us commit so much to this struggle. A year ago, on the last Presidents’ Day, we sent a brief survey to every member of Congress. It was designed to raise awareness of the unsavory nature of the development our representatives are only making possible with our tax dollars. We didn’t receive a single acknowledgment and that lack of respect for the thousands of names on this site, which are the statistical equivalent of millions of people, is instructive of the high-handed way our government functions, which is so at odds with the democratic foundations of our republic.

Therefore, with so much hanging in the balance, we will contact the individuals who are/have been instrumental in what is being built at Ground Zero by US mail, asking them to give the American people their reasons. We will post the letters as they go out, and will post any responses we receive. It is very important that the historical record be clear and the Twin Towers Alliance aims to promote that clarity in any way we can.

There can be no denying that this is a tremendously important matter. The consequences of our choices here are going to become more apparent with time. That makes our inquiry entirely appropriate and necessary. We are providing those we contact in government, business, and the media an opportunity to justify their actions to the public. If they are proud of their decisions and believe that they are doing what is right for America, then they should welcome the invitation to go on the record.

We will also reach out to those who could be instrumental in fostering an honorable solution. After all, if we are wrong about the dishonest practices that fostered the current plan (and we don’t think that we are,) it should be easy enough to establish. But if we are right about it (and there is every reason to believe that we are) then it is our duty to do whatever is necessary to put glorious new Twin Towers back where they belong.

[TalB]

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/petition/bulletins
2/18/08 — A Matter of Perspective Some of the cheerleaders for the current plan for the WTC boast that it will be much more impressive than the original complex — the real WTC. But that is absurd — as the photo at the top of our Restoration Alternative page makes incredibly clear. That doesn’t mean that the appearance of the Twin Towers couldn’t be enhanced. The 21st century materials and technologies planned for the site would look just as fine on Twins. But that is where perspective comes in. At street level either plan would impress. But from across the river, across the ocean, or across the years there is no comparison. We don’t say that the current plan is an embarrasment to be nasty or condescending. We believe it is self-evident, <em>unless one is standing up too close.

[Daquan13]

TalB, the pic that you posted of the Twins with that explosion was deleted. I somehow knew that it would be.

[TalB]

It seems to be still be showing for me.

[Daquan13]

Yeah, just before I looged off earlier, I noticed that it was x'd out. It's back now.