Twin Towers Advocacy continued

[TalB]

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/petition/bulletins
3/20/08 — A Rebellion Against Doom… At the end of an interview in the Jan 2007 issue of Psychology Today, high-wire master Philippe Petit, was asked what he would like to see happen at the WTC. “I think they should be rebuilt exactly the same, or maybe even a little bit higher — as a rebellion against doom.” In another interview he explained that he has a “life wish.” English may be his second language, but he has quite a way with words.

Today the Twin Towers Alliance sent out the press release that is a distillation of our vision for the future of the World Trade Center. The surprise political opening in New York, the contentious presidential campaign, and the growing economic uncertainties, are ideal conditions for our message to resonate. The current site plan is nothing but a consolation prize, and a poor one at that. When the wtc2011.com site is fully launched, the alternative will become clear. We can do so much better. And the timing is perfect.

[Daquan13]

Originally Posted by TalB

The same thing can be said about Hillary Clinton in the last number of months when trying to nominated. At first she lost the Iowa caucus, and many though it was all over for her, but then she won back in the New Hampshire primaries and several others after that. After Barrack Obama came closing in on Super Tuesday, many thought again it was over for Hillary, especially won he won 12 straight primaries, but it wasn't. She then started win key primaries in Ohio and Texas, where she came back from behind, and caught up and it changed it around again. Had she just given up when being hammered, she probably wouldn't be where she is right now. It really shows why one shouldn't give up just yet. Therefore there is a chance for a Hillary Clinton-esque victory. Now that I am thinking about it, the financial issues and JP Morgan Chase reconsidering is sort of like Obama starting to loose his support after problems occurring.

Yeah, I have a response, uh, what?

What in the Sam Hill has that got to do with what I was talking about? I'm not talking about what the politicians who are running for the Oval Office are doing.

I'm talking about that bogus bullcrap website that you belong to.

[Xusein]

I loved the Twin Towers, but you can't bring back the past and you should look forward to the future.

[TalB]

Originally Posted by Daquan13

I'm talking about that bogus bullcrap website that you belong to.

I am not part of the TTA in any way or form. I am not their representative, business associate, or even their secretary. Just like the WTCRM, TTA is also a grassroots, so many just represent themselves unlike TTT, who is a not for profit organization in which they cannot be that opinionated or even endorse politicians b/c of promises of tax deductions. Regaurdless, no pro-Towers advocate like myself had seeked Margret Donnovan or Richard Hughes to launch this, they did that on their own. We are not trying to go all the way back, just built the Belton-Gardner Plan, which were also done by architects that nobody had seeked originally. If anyone wants to talk about how much they support the official plan, there are threads for it, so don't clutter this one with FT ramblings just like how anyone doesn't like pro-Towers statements there.

[Daquan13]

Originally Posted by TalB

If anyone wants to talk about how much they support the official plan, there are threads for it, so don't clutter this one with FT ramblings just like how anyone doesn't like pro-Towers statements there.

Freedom Tower ramblings?

Cluttering this thread with Freedom Tower ramblings? Just when did I do that? I'm not looking for a fight, so please don't start one.

You remember that one, the next time that you visit any one of the Freedom Tower threads and post any of your Twin Towers ramblings there. Because Lord only knows that you've spammed those threads heavily, in the past with your ridiculous rants for the Twins.

Please. You need to go back and take a look at my posts here, and you'll find that I never once came here to ramble about the Freedom Tower at all.

I never once mentioned the tower here until now. The bulk of the posts that are here came from you. You got at least 7 or more on most of the pages here.

[TalB]

Click here to read a letter that was sent to Howard Rubenstien of Rubenstien Assoc, who is partnered with Silverstien Properties.

[Daquan13]

That article is in Adobe Acrobat Reader, which is too friggen slow downloading.

[redbaron_012]

Just some memories....The ticket was from 2000...but think the info was from older brochure?


By redbaron_012

[TalB]

It looks like it could still be too early to be celebrating for the FT.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03272008...ing_103783.htm
DOWNTOWN UNRAVELING

March 27, 2008 -- WORLD Trade Center-area reconstruction suddenly seems on the brink of un raveling again. The ascension of woefully inexperienced David Paterson to the governor's job threatens to unleash anarchy Downtown.

Yes, work is underway on the Freedom Tower and the memorial - but large questions linger about how they'll actually look when finished, compared with what the public's been led to expect.

Eliot Spitzer at least had a handle on the Ground Zero agenda and commanded some respect from the principal players. Under the green new governor, agendas and plans once set in stone now look to be as flexible as they were in the George Pataki years.

Don't bet a dime on the timetables recently announced with great fanfare by developer Larry Silverstein, the Port Authority and the Lower Manhattan Development Corp. Three ominous developments over the past few days call into question even the most concrete-sounding plans:

* As The Post first reported on March 18 in the wake of JP Morgan Chase's plan to take over Bear Stearns, Morgan will move its investment banking unit into Bear's tower on Madison Avenue - meaning it has no need to build a new headquarters at 130 Liberty St., as it once planned.

Sure, Morgan - feeling heat from Speaker Sheldon Silver, who represents Downtown - says it's still interested in using the site for some kind of building. But the Port Authority is already thinking about using the site for something completely different, like a hotel or a mixed-use project.

Even if Morgan decides to make a deal with the PA, it will likely be for a smaller tower than the 1.1 million square-foot jumbo it had wanted. So it would surely seek softer terms than the $300 million land lease for which it has a handshake with the PA.

That in turn would delay things further - or give either side an excuse to back out. (The Morgan-PA deal has always been non-binding, and will remain so until they draw up a contract and sign it - a process that hasn't even started.)

And nobody can build even a woodshed at the site until the LMDC takes down the old Deutsche Bank ruin - a job for which the LMDC refuses to give a time estimate, although decontamination has resumed.

* LMDC Chairman Avi Schick - the same fellow who has presided over the failure to take down 130 Liberty St. - is now throwing a monkey wrench into the MTA's tormented Fulton Street Transit Center project.

The Fulton boondoggle (first budgeted at $750 million and now pushing $1.2 billion) was already spinning its wheels as the MTA tries to milk more dough out of the state (i.e., the taxpayers).

The MTA doesn't have nearly enough money to build the above-ground domed pavilion that was the project's public face. Nor has the agency even started on "untangling" the existing station's "maze" of platforms, which was the scheme's entire original raison d'etre.

Worse, the MTA has torn up streets and sidewalks to build an unnecessary pedestrian tunnel that will eventually (maybe by the end of the century?) connect the Fulton station with the PA's new PATH terminal at Ground Zero (another delayed, over-budget scheme that might not ultimately resemble what's been shown to the public).

Now the New York Observer reports that Schick recently "brought forward" an idea to move the Performing Arts Center that's planned for Ground Zero to the above-ground part of the Fulton Transit project.

Although the Observer termed Schick's brainstorm an "idea" but "not yet a proposal," it's all too clear what it means: Nobody has any idea what to build at the Fulton Street site, a once-active block that's now a rat-infested vacant lot - a Son of Ground Zero two blocks from the real thing.

It also means the whole Fulton project is in play - subject to political whims and power plays on top of its existing chaos.

The arts center was long regarded as an integral part of WTC reconstruction; for an official of Schick's stature even to suggest yanking it entirely off-site means Ground Zero itself is not safe from further political interference.

* The Daily News reports that the NYPD wants to take over Ground Zero security from the Port Authority - a power play "driven," the paper said, by the NYPD's "growing concerns" about "security flaws" in the three office towers Silverstein is to build along Church Street.

That should sound familiar. Belated NYPD "security" concerns scuttled the original Freedom Tower in May 2005 and resulted in a year-long delay to redesign the building, which is now - finally - under construction by the Port Authority.

The NYPD's sudden qualms about Silverstein's towers raise exactly the same unavoidable (but never properly answered) questions that came up in 2005: Since the tower designs were made public two years ago, why did the NYPD wait until now - just as work is actually starting - to butt in?

Conspiracy-mongering is the last thing we need at Ground Zero, a place that's already fostered far too many wacky theories about what "really" happened on 9/11. But a PA-NYPD scrimmage over security sure sounds like a threat to getting the buildings out of the ground, just days after we were given assurances they'd be up in no time at all.

[Daquan13]

That is not nessecarily true.

[BradRousse]

Sounds more like building SNAFUs as opposed to dropping the plan to me..

[Daquan13]

Trust me, they didn't come all this way to be stopped or stalled now!

[TalB]

Stopping it to build what really deserves to be there is the right thing.

[BradRousse]

Tal... even if they are stopping (which they aren't, it's a SNAFU), it doesn't mean they're going to tear everything out and fall back to restoration.

This is why everyone's urging you to let go... you're grasping straws!

[Taylorhoge]

Originally Posted by TalB

Stopping it to build what really deserves to be there is the right thing.

So you would rather see the orginal boxes that had been considered extremely elitist when they were first built by major conservitive politicians namely Rockefellar,Tobin,Moses,and many other NYC politicians who were paid off so they could rid radio row and make room for the largest and biggest public works edifices in the world(If you are offended by my remarks take into consideration the strugle people were made to go to there offices.My uncle always complained about being at the WTC for a number of years before he moved to a different office a number of weeks before 9/11) in which now you are now contradicitng urself when you say you are a nerdy leftists and yet you support the reubilding of these buildings which of course even the architecht(excuse my spelling) himself never even liked the fact he was designing these monsters. The Trade towers if they were to be rebuilt the same way would still make them such easy targets number 1 and number 2 the amount of tragedy generated by 9/11 and the sight of these towers to some is just unbearable especially the families.

[Daquan13]

Originally Posted by BradRousse

Tal... even if they are stopping (which they aren't, it's a SNAFU), it doesn't mean they're going to tear everything out and fall back to restoration.

This is why everyone's urging you to let go... you're grasping straws!

Big time!! For real!!

They've come much too far to let that happen now.

Yeah Tal, what makes you even think that those 2 buildings wouldn't be attacked again, or another attempt made to try to destroy them, even if they WERE to be rebuilt? Sorry can't bring back lives lost.

Part of the reason that the officials won't go that way, I'm willing to bet, is that they themselves are probably fearful of another attack.
In this case, it's better to be safe than sorry.

[TalB]

Originally Posted by BradRousse

Tal... even if they are stopping (which they aren't, it's a SNAFU), it doesn't mean they're going to tear everything out and fall back to restoration.

This is why everyone's urging you to let go... you're grasping straws!

Brad, any wrench thrown into the proccess of the official plan is a plus for us pro-Towers advocates, b/c it shows how much it will be held back. Let's not forget how much the plan costs now. Even more recently, the PA and Silverstein lost another lawsuit for more insurance money that they needed, though it wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

Originally Posted by Taylorhodge

So you would rather see the orginal boxes that had been considered extremely elitist when they were first built by major conservitive politicians namely Rockefellar,Tobin,Moses,and many other NYC politicians who were paid off so they could rid radio row and make room for the largest and biggest public works edifices in the world(If you are offended by my remarks take into consideration the strugle people were made to go to there offices.My uncle always complained about being at the WTC for a number of years before he moved to a different office a number of weeks before 9/11) in which now you are now contradicitng urself when you say you are a nerdy leftists and yet you support the reubilding of these buildings which of course even the architecht(excuse my spelling) himself never even liked the fact he was designing these monsters. The Trade towers if they were to be rebuilt the same way would still make them such easy targets number 1 and number 2 the amount of tragedy generated by 9/11 and the sight of these towers to some is just unbearable especially the families.

Once again, I am not justifying what was done then. I have already answered what it was like then for them being built in the first place on my list of debunked myths. Minorou Yamasaki originally wanted them to be 80 stories, but the PA pushed for them to be 110 stories as well as for changing the design for 3 WTC and adding a seventh building just north of it. Where did Yamasaki say he never like those buildings? He considered them a dedication for world peace, and he chose to build them in the Financial Dist b/c he felt that there was nothing worth preserving, which he believed would have been replaced by something else anyway. Again, I have debunked about the claim that they will be attacked again. Is building something at a smaller scale like the FT going to make the place any less of a target? It is more like saying don't attack us, then trying to give something back. As for making the claim about them being a white elephant and replacing Raido Row, that statement tend to be a hyperbole. It is no lie that when they were being built, there was a recession, but it didn't stop anything, and they were filled up faster than any skyscraper before them, and I know that both founder of the TTA were living at the time to witness that. As a matter of fact, I could probably imply the same logic to the ESB. Was building it over the original Waldorf-Astoria Hotel justified unlike Radio Row? Perhaps, it was even more of a failure than the Twins in the fact that it was built durring the Great Depression and didn't start getting filled until after WWII. What about the fact that 1 Liberty Plaza replaced the Singer Bldg, Citigroup Ctr over the original St Peter's Lutheran Church, or even MSG over the station house of Penn Station? If it was wrong for the PA to use emminent domain to build the WTC over Radio Row, then is it right for the MTA to do a similar thing for the new station house that would have the Fulton Transit Ctr or even the city government demolishing numerous of rows for housing projects? Basically, I find those who say this to be very selective on what they are claim yet justifying it for others that are using emminent domain abuse like the Atlantic Yds, Columbia expansion, and Willets Pt. It's interesting how I am able to back my claims with facts, which is what a true nerdy leftist does, while others are just making some blanket statement that holds little or no ground to supporting it. Since you brought up the spectrum, pro-Towers supporters come from all sides just like the supporters for Israel, so it's not like we either all conservative or all liberal, and this is one of the things all sides can agree on.

[Daquan13]

For the record, Silverstein DID NOT lose any more of the insurance money.

The PA will not get any of it, since Silverstein was the one who bought the former complex and had initiated the insurance policies on the place. The dough will go directly to Silverstein. He gets to keep it and will use it to help rebuld Ground Zero.

If you are going to tell that part of the story, then please tell it right. Do not twist it aroound to make it look like Silvie is losing ground, please, because he's NOT. Wasn't it you who posted that same story 1 or 2 pages back? Or in another thread?

[BradRousse]

Originally Posted by TalB

Brad, any wrench thrown into the proccess of the official plan is a plus for us pro-Towers advocates, b/c it shows how much it will be held back. Let's not forget how much the plan costs now. Even more recently, the PA and Silverstein lost another lawsuit for more insurance money that they needed, though it wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

You... you HONESTLY think that they're going to go "F*** it. Let's rebuild the Twin Towers" some point. After finally getting started. That IS grasping straws.

I've seen you hop up and down over the TINIEST criticism over the plan. And this isn't "a wrench." This is a SNAFU, or a delay, or something like that. I beg you, please... LET THEM GO. You claim you're not obsessing, but... what you say and do denies that. Grasping every little thing like this, saying "Yep, rebuild" is inevitable after all this? Tal... you're teetering on the edge here.

At what point will you realize they aren't coming back? When the towers top off? The dedication?

[Daquan13]

Originally Posted by BradRousse

You... you HONESTLY think that they're going to go "F*** it. Let's rebuild the Twin Towers" some point. After finally getting started. That IS grasping straws.

I've seen you hop up and down over the TINIEST criticism over the plan. And this isn't "a wrench." This is a SNAFU, or a delay, or something like that. I beg you, please... LET THEM GO. You claim you're not obsessing, but... what you say and do denies that. Grasping every little thing like this, saying "Yep, rebuild" is inevitable after all this? Tal... you're teetering on the edge here.

At what point will you realize they aren't coming back? When the towers top off? The dedication?

Never!!

BradRousse, I can relate to your post, but please try not to get too embroiled in trying to convince him. Anything and everything that we've tried to tell him has fallen on deaf ears.

We, as well as others, have learned, I think, that the more he's told this, the more he's going to harp on anything suspicious that might come up about Ground Zero, take it and run the crap out of it, saying that it'll get stopped.