LONDON - New White Hart Lane (56,250)

[Kebab Man]

It's on the official website now.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news...te-200911.html

Big, big news.

[Kebab Man]

Originally Posted by EJG

On the front page of the official club web site now too.

I can't imagine they'd have bothered signing the S106 (which has been unsigned since when, last October?) unless they were pretty damn close to being able to go ahead with the project... right?

I'm trying to not get too excited or get my hopes up too much but it's tough

Sorry EJG, I see you'd already posted the official link. I was too excited to read further down the page!

I'd be very interested to see what the s.106 actually says.

[Kebab Man]

http://www.planningservices.haringey...ageName=403051

This is a link to the planning permission itself, dated with today's date - I hope the link works.

If not you can get it on the Haringey website by going to the planning services page and entering the application reference HGY/2010/1000

The s.106 is not there yet, and that will be equally important, setting out how much is needed for the infrastructure, who is paying for it, and in what proportions.

[SoCalYid]

Eh?

2. The part of the development where full details are approved by this planning application, namely the
'Northern Development', 'the Stadium' and 'the Southern Development' (see plan A600 Rev 00), shall begin
as follows:
a. The Northern Development shall commence within three years of the date of this planning
permission;
b. The Stadium shall commence within five years of the date of this planning permission; and
c. The Southern Development (excluding those elements that are approved in outline only (namely the
residential block and the hotel block) shall commence within seven years of the date of this
planning permission

Just a quick question, so is that the time frame the planning conditions are valid for, so if we don't build in 5 years we have to go through the process again?

[Kebab Man]

Originally Posted by SoCalYid

Eh?



Just a quick question, so is that the time frame the planning conditions are valid for, so if we don't build in 5 years we have to go through the process again?

Maybe that partly explains the delay - ie we didn't want to sign if we weren't absolutely ready to start.

Or maybe it means you just have to commence within 5 years, not complete it by then.

I'm just wondering what has happened that has made the club sign today (and not last year, or next year, or ever?). Have they got some concession from the council, the mayor, or TFL? Have they had some good news re funding or sponsorship? Or have they just realised they are running out of time and options.

[SoCalYid]

Originally Posted by Kebab Man

Maybe that partly explains the delay - ie we didn't want to sign if we weren't absolutely ready to start.

Or maybe it means you just have to commence within 5 years, not complete it by then.

I'm just wondering what has happened that has made the club sign today (and not last year, or next year, or ever?). Have they got some concession from the council, the mayor, or TFL? Have they had some good news re funding or sponsorship? Or have they just realised they are running out of time and options.

Hopefully is ahead of good news with both the RGF and a sponsorship. Going by the time scale of the last RGF announcement I think we're close to a decision being made.

[RobH]

Originally Posted by Kebab Man

Maybe that partly explains the delay - ie we didn't want to sign if we weren't absolutely ready to start.

Or maybe it means you just have to commence within 5 years, not complete it by then.

I'm just wondering what has happened that has made the club sign today (and not last year, or next year, or ever?). Have they got some concession from the council, the mayor, or TFL? Have they had some good news re funding or sponsorship? Or have they just realised they are running out of time and options.

Joe Lewis has been in town. Some ITK on Glory-glory suggesting he's had a hand in negotiations.

[JimB]

Originally Posted by SoCalYid

Eh?



Just a quick question, so is that the time frame the planning conditions are valid for, so if we don't build in 5 years we have to go through the process again?

It's standard practice, when granting planning consent in England, to set a date by which substantial work must have begun. If it hasn't, then the developer must seek new planning consent.

I'm not sure that today's announcement is especially significant. The S106 agreement doesn't actually commit Spurs to anything.

It is, however, another hurdle cleared. One small step closer. And it does suggest that Spurs are keen to get the ball rolling.

[Kebab Man]

The Guardian and BBC are both now running the story but both are stressing that OS appeal is very much alive as well, and not about to be dropped.

So maybe signing the s.106 is just another move in the chess game, after all.

[topalex]

This link claims we are contributing 17 million to the infrastructure.

http://www.footballeconomy.com/conte...n-new-stadium?

[EJG]

I noticed a couple of Spurs fans on Twitter saying that they received a new survey about the stadium by email today. Hopefully the contents of the survey will be revealed to the rest of us (although I suspect it'll probably be generally the same as previous surveys).

Edit: Seems it's another survey that is "exploring different seating concepts for the new stadium" aka "How much would you allow us to rinse from you for a premium seat?"

[Axelferis]

is it official that a deal has been signed for the new stadium? sorry i've just heard today a news concerning that

[RobH]

A deal, but not the deal

[Kebab Man]

Originally Posted by EJG

I noticed a couple of Spurs fans on Twitter saying that they received a new survey about the stadium by email today. Hopefully the contents of the survey will be revealed to the rest of us (although I suspect it'll probably be generally the same as previous surveys).

Edit: Seems it's another survey that is "exploring different seating concepts for the new stadium" aka "How much would you allow us to rinse from you for a premium seat?"

I've received the survey today. I gave up after two questions.

There is something very depressing about being asked "which season ticket are you interested in, the one that costs £7,000 or the cheap one for £3,000"

This is clearly intended for corporates, I wonder why they are emailing individual fans with this. They know who their corporate customers are.

Surely no individual would dream of paying £3,000 for a season ticket?

[Finney]

Originally Posted by Kebab Man

I've received the survey today. I gave up after two questions.

There is something very depressing about being asked "which season ticket are you interested in, the one that costs £7,000 or the cheap one for £3,000"

This is clearly intended for corporates, I wonder why they are emailing individual fans with this. They know who their corporate customers are.

Surely no individual would dream of paying £3,000 for a season ticket?

It seems that two different surveys have gone round as others I know received one that was asking questions about (much more reasonable) ordinary season ticket packages. Although I too got the same one that you did. Also even if they do know who their corporate customers are the new stadium will have a far larger allocation of corporate seats. One of the things that Arsenal did very successfully was to sell out their middle tier. Spurs will need to ensure that the same happens if the new stadium is to prove financially viable. Not all of the seats in the middle tier are full on corporate. I would imagine that Spurs have a target of selling (say) 60% as corporate packages and 40% to fans who would pay that little bit extra for a decent seat with good facilities but without the neccessity for the rest of the corporate experience (sit down meal, drink, lounge before/after the game, a Spurs legend guest speaker, etc)

Instead of not completing the questionnaire I suggest that you persevere and answer the questions. After I had ticked the last two options as ones that I would 'possibly' be intested in (the North stand adult and North stand family options). I was then presented with various cost options for those tickets. Of the options presented a couple were actually less than the guide on the opening page of the survey and actually not too bad price wise (considering it is the middle 'club' tier and it included all league AND Cup matches (both domestic and European) and free drinks at half time).

Even if all of the prices offered seem too high to you then I think it would be better for your response to reflect that as otherwise the completed surveys may distort THFC's research such that they over estimate thir potential market and set ticket prices too high as a result.

Anyway I take all of this as good news. It finally seems as though something positive is happening on the stadium front with the section 106 finally being agreed yesterday and this survey coming out today. My guess is that Levy has had the nod and the wink that the RGF application is going to be successful and that combined with the 'riot fund' makes the project viable.

[Sea Toby]

Originally Posted by Kebab Man

I've received the survey today. I gave up after two questions.

There is something very depressing about being asked "which season ticket are you interested in, the one that costs £7,000 or the cheap one for £3,000"

This is clearly intended for corporates, I wonder why they are emailing individual fans with this. They know who their corporate customers are.

Surely no individual would dream of paying £3,000 for a season ticket?

Have any of you ever researched how new stadiums are financed and paid for? Obviously this is for premium club seats. Just about all of the new stadiums and indoor arenas being built today are practically financed through a combination of executive boxes/suites, vip premium club seats, and stadium naming rights sourced to pay off a mortgage.

What are club seats? From Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_seating

Well-to-do fans will pay for the luxury vip services, premium seats, exclusive restaurants and lounges, priority parking, valet service, priority shuttles, etc. The clubs are targeting the same folks who join and pay membership dues to country clubs...

Do the math: say offhand 5k club seats at 2k quid per year with a ten year commitment for season tickets generates 100 million quid over the ten years. Add say 1k better club seats at 7k quid per year with a ten year commitment for season tickets generates 70 million quid over the ten years.

That is a lot of revenues being generated to pay off a new stadium. Every stadium is different, but the concept is nearly the same. They could decide to figure this over 15 years or more. The higher the price for a new stadium usually the longer the period of the commitment. The club seats in Miami which sold in 1988 which cost $1.8k per year now sell for $5.2k per year. An investment for club seats is a good investment, as well-to-do fans will pay a premium for vip service and for the best seats...

The concept that clubs will finance a 400 million new stadium with a long term mortgage without sourcing key revenues streams to pay off that mortgage is naive... Clubs are using the good old free enterprise system to finance stadiums WORLDWIDE... Its not just a matter of selling 100 or so executive boxes...

[Kebab Man]

Originally Posted by Sea Toby

Have any of you ever researched how new stadiums are financed and paid for? Obviously this is for premium club seats. Just about all of the new stadiums and indoor arenas being built today are practically financed through a combination of executive boxes/suites, vip premium club seats, and stadium naming rights sourced to pay off a mortgage.

Talk about stating the bleedin’ obvious. Clearly it is for premium seats. My post could not have been clearer on that. We all know that the main reason for the new ground is the increase in percentage of premium seats, not just the increased capacity per se.

I just think this is strange PR by the club. The first question immediately puts your back out if youre not a corporate fan. It sends out the message - “we’re primarily interested in the opinions of those who want premium seats. If you don’t, don’t worry – we’ll come round to your questions later”

[Kebab Man]

Originally Posted by Finney

Instead of not completing the questionnaire I suggest that you persevere and answer the questions.

I did in the end. Some of the questions were very strange though. One asks you if you would prefer a seat on the halfway line in the lower tier for £1,900 or one in the same place in the upper tier for £900. No brainer surely? At times it was more like an IQ test than a survey.

[Sea Toby]

Originally Posted by Kebab Man

Talk about stating the bleedin’ obvious. Clearly it is for premium seats. My post could not have been clearer on that. We all know that the main reason for the new ground is the increase in percentage of premium seats, not just the increased capacity per se.

I just think this is strange PR by the club. The first question immediately puts your back out if youre not a corporate fan. It sends out the message - “we’re primarily interested in the opinions of those who want premium seats. If you don’t, don’t worry – we’ll come round to your questions later”

I don't blame the club asking defining questions? Surely all of the fans want the club to get it right, how many executive boxes and premium seats are desired by the fans. There is no point in over building or under building. Its called surveying... There is no set pattern, every club and stadium is different...

For example the number of club seats in NFL stadiums in the USA.
MetLife Stadium 10k club seats
FedEx Field 15k club seats
Cowboys Stadium 15k club seats
Louisiana Superdome 4.5k club seats
Arrowhead Stadium 10k club seats
Sports Authority Field 8.5k club seats
Sun Life Stadium 10k club seats
Bank of America Stadium 11k club seats
Cleveland Browns Stadium 9k club seats
Ralph Wilson Stadium 9k club seats
Lambeau Field 2k club seats
Qualcomm Stadium 8k club seats
Georgia Dome 4.5k club seats
Reliant Stadium 7k club seats
M&T Bank Stadium 8k club seats
Candlestick Park * a new stadium with 10k club seats will soon be under construction...
Lincoln Financial Field 9k club seats
LP Field 12k club seats
Gillette Stadium 6k club seats
EverBank Field 11k club seats
Century Link Field 7k club seats
Edward Jones Dome 6k club seats
Raymond James Stadium 12k club seats
Paul Brown Stadium 7.5k club seats
Heinz Field 1.5k club seats* more are being added
Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome 8k club seats
University of Phoenix Stadium 7.5k club seats
O.co Coliseum 6k club seats
Lucas Oil Stadium 14k club seats
Soldier Field 8k club seats

Brighton Hove Albion recently build a new stadium with 2.5k club seats. They sold out so while the stadium was still being built added another 450 club seats in another stand along with an exclusive lounge in that stand...

[Kebab Man]

You’re preaching to the converted Toby - I don't think we are disagreeing about this.

I have nothing against “premium” fans, I know that there are very restricted corporate facilities at the current WHL – I hope the new ground has a lot more of these and I hope they will sell out. It will make loads of money for the club.

I just think the survey I got is strangely targeted – especially when there seems to have been more than one type of survey circulating. They may have even sent me the wrong one.

The majority of premium packages (not all, admittedly) are bought up by marketing departments of companies who put them on the firm’s expenses, usually in blocks. The club already knows they’ve got a lot of companies on the waiting list for these. I don't think they would be doing this development in the first place otherwise.

I suspect there will be very few private individuals though who would pay £7,000 for a season ticket out of their own pocket. People who have been used to paying around £700 per year for a season ticket, for years, are not suddenly going to want to pay £7,000. I don’t go to football to have a feast, or to be driven up from Seven Sisters in a limo.

They are two different markets entirely.