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Old April 12th, 2015, 07:37 PM   #4421
j-biz
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Gotcha, my bad. May be the case.
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Old April 12th, 2015, 07:57 PM   #4422
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NEW YORK | 30 Hudson Yards | 392m | 1287ft | 68 fl | U/C

Don't worry about it I'm heavily extrapolating from poorly detailed maps, so what I am saying maybe hogwash.
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Old April 12th, 2015, 09:55 PM   #4423
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Recent far west side history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Dude View Post
Don't worry about it I'm heavily extrapolating from poorly detailed maps, so what I am saying maybe hogwash.
The FAR eastern end the block between the Western Rail Yard (33rd st) and the Javitz Center (34th street) overlies part of the westernmost curve of Amtrak's Empire Connection tunnel. This late 1980's shallow tunnel swings north after exiting the Penn Station bathtub heading west under 10th Ave between the 105+ year old Pennsylvania RR Hudson river tunnels and the newly constructed Gateway Tunnel concrete casing.

Amtrak's Empire Connection tunnel was what severed the current northern terminus of the High Line from the West Side Line, which will be overbuilt by the northern Phase II construction of Hudson Park/Boulevard. The Empire Connection tunnel now connects Penn station to the West Side line.

AFAIK, the actuual source of the following is an article written by Mary Voboril in LI's Newsday (owned by Cablevsion) in 2005:

Quote:
The air above rail yards still free

March 26. 2005?

NEW YORK -- The West Side rail yards are almost entirely hidden from public view by an 8-foot wall.

But the air above that 13 acres is open and, for the moment, still free.

More than two decades ago, during the rail yards' rebuilding, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority recognized the potent value of that air as a funding source for its capital programs, said Peter Derrick, a transit historian.

"There were provisions made to put columns between the tracks so you could do an overbuild without interrupting use of the yard as a transit facility," Derrick said.

At the yards -- officially the Sen. John D. Caemmerer West Side Yard -- 31 Long Island Rail Road tracks coalesce in a tidy pattern that flares out like a flat wine glass. Under the development bids submitted to the MTA, the site is to be decked over, blotting out open sky and, to the west, views of traffic at the Air Pegasus Heliport.

For the 250 who work in the yards, construction also will cut off glimpses of the Hudson River, not that it's such a soul-enhancing view: "When you're in the yard now, it's very hard to see the Hudson. All you can basically see is the traffic on the West Side Highway," said Derrick, who also is an archivist at the Bronx County Historical Society.

"Basically," he added, "it's an uninteresting rail facility."

That may be, but its history has intriguing elements. A British Army Headquarters Map, dated 1782, shows unspecified British colonization on the very site of the rail yards, said Meta Brunzema, a Manhattan architect and urban designer who has worked with the anti-stadium Hell's Kitchen Neighborhood Association.

Maps from 1832 and 1836 show a chemical works on the site at 32nd Street, with 11th Avenue abruptly ending. The Hudson River freely flowed where 11th and 12th avenues now run.

By 1851, the shoreline was being filled in. The Hudson River Railroad built a depot on the site, its tracks running south along 11th Avenue to 33rd Street.

"They were not allowed to run below 32nd Street for fear of explosions," said Kathleen Hulser, public historian at the New-York Historical Society. "It developed where it did, from 32nd Street up, because in the early days of railroads, steam engines and boilers would blow up."

Also in the neighborhood, according to an 1856 insurance map, was a lumber basin, stone works and tannery.

Abraham Lincoln used the depot on his way to his inauguration, and his funeral train passed through in 1865, said David Morrison, a retired LIRR branch line manager and amateur rail historian.

Cornelius Vanderbilt acquired the Hudson River Railroad in the 1860s, and eventually it merged with the New York Central, which used the site as a freight depot that grew into a major freight terminal. An 1879 map shows it already had assumed the configuration of a lopsided wine glass.

By the late 1970s, the yards, bordered by West 30th and West 33rd streets and 10th and 12th avenues, had fallen into disuse.

Enter state Sen. John Caemmerer of East Williston, then-chair of the Senate Transportation Committee, who insisted that a bond issue include $100 million to acquire the site for the LIRR. After morning runs, its trains had to return to Long Island empty. The yard would provide storage space between rush hours.

The project, folded into an MTA capital project and ultimately costing $195.7 million, formally was named for Caemmerer in 1987. However, his name now is rarely invoked in connection with the yards, much to the annoyance of some.

"The name 'Caemmerer' should stick with whatever is built over the Caemmerer Yard," said Morrison, the retired LIRR manager.

LIRR spokesman Brian Dolan says the site now includes a six-track indoor maintenance shop for inspections and light maintenance, such as "wheel trueing -- we round the wheels if there's a flat spot," he said. There is a 12-car cleaning platform, an area for traffic control, a locker room and lunchroom.

The impenetrable 8-foot wall was added to thwart graffiti artists.

"The yard was totally reconfigured," said Derrick, who worked for Caemmerer. "The tracks that are there now feed in from Penn Station. There was never a direct connection to Penn Station until the yards were turned into an MTA property."

As part of the 1980s rebuilding, a tunnel also was blasted out of the bedrock below the yard, allowing Amtrak to connect to Penn Station.

Robert Evers, general chairman of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen, has his doubts about the ease of moving multi-car trains during large-scale construction.

"It's not going to be as easy as the riding public is being led to believe," he said. Specifically, "Nobody has gotten into the details of what the construction of this platform is going to entail."

And the decked-over site itself? Evers sighed.

"From our perspective," he said, "it will be another gloomy station."
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Old April 12th, 2015, 10:15 PM   #4424
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What I don't like about that master plan are those two buildings in the middle (WR1 and WR5) by placing those builings there they are losing the opportunity to make a truly monumental space all the way to the Hudson River. With those buildings gone, you could stand on the Highline by the Lincoln Highway, and have the view of the canyon formed by the other buildings all the way to the future sculpture and the HY office towers, a view that would also be seen from across the Hudson in NJ.
I think they better place WR5 along with WR4 one on each side of the Highline, They can have a bridge-building between the two over the Highline. The sq feet of the tower WR1 could be distributed between buildings WR2, WR3, WR6, WR7. Taking off that buildings would also allow thae remaining buildings to have better views, including Hudson River views, obstructed by those buildings in the current plan.

Regarding the center piece sculpture obviuosly wont ever be even near to what the Eiffel Tower is to Paris, no matter how good it is. NY already has its own "Eiffel Towers" such as The Statue of Liberty, ESB and 1WTC.
BTW once I read a list of Hollywood cliches, and one of them was that according to Hollywood, seemingly every single apartment in Paris has windows with Eiffel Tower Views




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Old April 13th, 2015, 10:42 PM   #4425
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Diagram in! via DOB.




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Hudson Yards mega development Map: June 2015
http://i.imgur.com/FVrYwpy.jpg
(click again once inside to enlarge the map)

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Old April 14th, 2015, 01:16 AM   #4426
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From once 1,337' (408m) to 1268'5'' (386m). It certainly is tall, but 30 HY is not a signature tower. Here's hoping Tishman will deliver.
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Old April 14th, 2015, 03:43 AM   #4427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LondoniumLex View Post
A guy on this site named JackO seems to work for Related and apparently knows what the sculpture is. I believe that he said that it's not beautiful, but it's very interesting. I believe that the thing is going to be interactive.
You will get to go in it, on it, and up it.
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Old April 14th, 2015, 03:49 AM   #4428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejacko5 View Post
You will get to go in it, on it, and up it.
Sounds intriguing... you think it's ugly, though? Do you think in the grand scheme of things it will really add to HY?
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Old April 14th, 2015, 04:39 AM   #4429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunser View Post
From once 1,337' (408m) to 1268'5'' (386m). It certainly is tall, but 30 HY is not a signature tower. Here's hoping Tishman will deliver.
True but at ~1270 it is also very wide and imposing so it will probably have almost the impact as 1WTC.
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Old April 14th, 2015, 09:11 PM   #4430
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4/13


Untitled by themodulorman, on Flickr


Untitled by themodulorman, on Flickr
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Old April 15th, 2015, 03:17 AM   #4431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
Sounds intriguing... you think it's ugly, though? Do you think in the grand scheme of things it will really add to HY?
yes, it will add a lot. it is weird.
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Old April 15th, 2015, 03:48 AM   #4432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejacko5 View Post
yes, it will add a lot. it is weird.
Good to hear that it is weird.
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Old April 15th, 2015, 07:27 AM   #4433
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lol. It's good to hear it will add a lot to the HY. Interesting but weird?? Oy vey.
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(click again once inside to enlarge the map)
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Old April 15th, 2015, 10:06 AM   #4434
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And yet we still have another year to to see the design don't we?
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Old April 15th, 2015, 10:12 AM   #4435
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Old April 16th, 2015, 04:47 AM   #4436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Dude View Post
Don't worry about it I'm heavily extrapolating from poorly detailed maps, so what I am saying maybe hogwash.
Here's a diagram from the MTA outreach in the mid-late 200Xs for the #7 subway extension. The curve of the "Amtrak ROW below" (Empire Connection tunnel) is outlined in light blue dashed lines. Maybe some day in the far future "others" will build the western entrance to the 34th street subway station...
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Old April 16th, 2015, 07:04 AM   #4437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejacko5 View Post
You will get to go in it, on it, and up it.
Is it something that one just walks up or does it entail gravity , etc,?
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Old April 16th, 2015, 09:59 AM   #4438
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that tower will make a major impact in the skyline , can't wait to see it rise
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:31 AM   #4439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the man from k-town View Post
that tower will make a major impact in the skyline , can't wait to see it rise
No doubt, it'll be taller than the ESB without the antenna.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 06:10 PM   #4440
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nothing
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