L.A. Civic Pride

[milquetoast]

Alright, let's hear it for the "any city's civic pride that isn't Los Angeles civic pride" part of the thread!! WhoooooOO whoooo

[edsg25]

I think the issue of "civic pride" is important. and a city needs to have it.

but there is at least one factor at play for LA that has nothing to do with quality of life or a list of the city's attributes. It is not a divisive issue, merely an historical one:

Along with its spread over a wide stretch of territory, LA came together differently from other cities. As noted by others as well as me, LA is more the product of communities (often well developed) taken over by the city than the more traditonal route for US cities: a spread outward from the core.

In far flung LA, the communities drawn into the city had, as noted, identities of their own and the structures in place that made them feel they were still community oriented. When China offically made Hong Kong a part of its nation, the day after it happened do you think the people in Hong Kong saw themselves in being in a different place? Hell, no. And they still don't. Annexing territory be it by nation or city doesn't make a place change and if it does, it takes a long, long time for it to happen.

The implications for Los Angeles? Well, to start with, you do have plenty of civic pride; I've seen the examples on this board numerous times.

But for it to really be the way you want it to be, I think you guys need to look at New York City and its consolidation and ask yourself the following:

• Did Brooklynites suddenly see themselves as New Yorkers when the city of New York that was Manhattan basically took over its rival city, Brooklyn?

• Did the "villagers" in Queens see themselves as big city New Yorkers or did it take years of those villages being part of the city, spreading into each other, the divisions between them neve disappearing but muted to the degree that allowed them to see themselves as New Yorkers?

• And don't you think even today, there is still a paralel between Staten Island and the San Fernando Valley on how much a part they feel of their respective cities?

Point is, NYC has dealt with consolidation a lot longer than LA has. And NYC was affected by enough pre-auto immigration that areas like Queens were able to urbanize in a way tha neve would have happened in LA.

So IMHO, LA actually has a lot of civic pride going, should encourage more, but should be realistic about how the city was put together and accept that the concept of "local community" that often has more of a town of its own feel than city neighborhood has a dual level of loyalty not seen in many other places.

[klamedia]

"edsg" I get it but you're wasting your breath with some on here.....they won't be happy until LA exhibits "high" culture and looks and feels like East Coast cities including San Fran. I tell them they might as well move now because that aint gonna happen.

[milquetoast]

I don't think, realistically, that ANYONE in their right mind, would want to emulate New York, or Baltimore, or Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia or anywhere else that displays the kind of congestion out there, back there in L. A. They just want to be able to move the millions of people around, they don't necessarily want an east coast design for mass transit. They want homes and offices in multiple urban centers within the whole. They want multi-use construction, with street level commerce and underground parking whenever possible- or no parking at all! I don't think anyone want's to look like Chicago or New York around there, unless they absolutely have to, to house and concentrate populations. To free themselves from the personal transportation they may have loved at one time, but now seems doomed to cause widespread atrophy in the city. No one else in the country faces what they do when it comes to having too many people and too many cars for the infrastructure currently at hand. Now, I LOVE to drive, but next time I visit I wouldn't mind sitting on a subway and leave the driving to someone else. Provided I can get to where I want to go. In Los Angeles, ultimately, all you have to do is keep a certain amount of vehicular traffic off the freeway net, year after year. The personal car will adapt and ain't goin away, but make the freeway usable again to a much smaller percentage of cars.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by klamedia

"edsg" I get it but you're wasting your breath with some on here.....they won't be happy until LA exhibits "high" culture and looks and feels like East Coast cities including San Fran. I tell them they might as well move now because that aint gonna happen.

it is a silly attitude. you know, there was a time in US history when California was somewhere "out there" and not tied to the power structure of the nation and not even "major league" prior to the Dodgers and Giants. And, of course, at that time, this nation as with all nations were more concerned about internal matters than what was outside their borders.

flash forward to today: the US is a diverse nation from east to west and north to south. And the power structure of the nation is no more centered around the northeast corridor than it once was. add to this that we now look beyond our borders as much as inside of them and that LA is not just a part of the US, but also an essential part of the economic engine that is the Pacific Rim as well as part of a border zone that extends from the Gulf to the Pacific where the US and Mexico mix and influence each other in innumerable ways.

There is no standard for how a city should look today and if east coast and midwestern cities believe they should be such a standard, they are only showing their ignorance of how young they are in the story of the city throughout the world.

I know how LA feels. From a Chicago perspective, I laugh at the notion that Chicago is some sort of "smaller New York". Not is that wrong, we Chicagoans, although respecting New York, don't want to be like it or any other city. We find Chicago to be unique on its own with an atmosphere you won't find elsewhere, just like you guys do in Los Angeles.

And for all the (gladly in the past) Chgo-LA bickering on this board, Chicago and Los Angeles share a lot in common: we both know we are great and unique cities and don't feel any need to compare ourselves to any city...be it in our nation or on the globe...to validate ourselves. Chicago's and Los Angeles's very existence as the type of cities they are would be all the validation evey needed.

[Westsidelife]

Adam Levine has a tattoo on his arm that reads "Los Angeles". A good example of a native Angeleno who isn't afraid to display his home-grown civic pride. And he's white.

[Westsidelife]

Originally Posted by klamedia

"edsg" I get it but you're wasting your breath with some on here.....they won't be happy until LA exhibits "high" culture and looks and feels like East Coast cities including San Fran. I tell them they might as well move now because that aint gonna happen.

I presume that I am one of them?

[klamedia]

[globill]

Originally Posted by edsg25

i

And for all the (gladly in the past) Chgo-LA bickering on this board, Chicago and Los Angeles share a lot in common: we both know we are great and unique cities and don't feel any need to compare ourselves to any city...be it in our nation or on the globe...to validate ourselves.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I think LA's challenge in forging a civic identity is greater due to the more recent nature of its growth.

Both Americans and immigrants who have settled there have a much easier time of it when it comes to connecting with where they came from.

Chicago and NY's great growth spurts were before the age of aviation and global communications. Immigrants were forced to identify with their new home towns and to some extent, sever a connection to their old home towns.

LA is a modern version of this, where immigrants/migrants maintain tight links to their previous hometowns/home countries.

Eventually, the kids and grandkids of these new Angelenos will realize that their hometown is one of the greatest cities on Earth. And LA's civic pride may even grow to Chicago-sized dimensions.

[milquetoast]

Neato! The Los Angeles Times has two articles out now, reporting with glee: "Is Cannes the new Oscar?" (Report on how The Acadamy red carpet can be "brushed off" if cancelled) and "L. A.'s fleet flounders in the Rose Parade" (Report on how the six ships representing the port had no charm, even making light of the fact Villar was riding one of them!) Here's a cute quote: "Naturally the city did not win one of the 24 prizes handed out to the floats. That's O.K. The city has won only 8 prizes for its floats since 1930 -- a rather remarkable rate of failure." Not earth shattering, but it can be infectious- this kind of ridicule, and from the city's lead newspaper! Sucks to be you if you have to read that kind of shit every morning. I read online, but I won't buy it anymore. Hardly a champion of this city Maybe the foreign ownership is the problem?

[kidA]

That's gross. How can that kind of shit be printed in our own newspaper.

[CITYofDREAMS]

Originally Posted by milquetoast

Neato! The Los Angeles Times has two articles out now, reporting with glee: "Is Cannes the new Oscar?" (Report on how The Acadamy red carpet can be "brushed off" if cancelled) and "L. A.'s fleet flounders in the Rose Parade" (Report on how the six ships representing the port had no charm, even making light of the fact Villar was riding one of them!) Here's a cute quote: "Naturally the city did not win one of the 24 prizes handed out to the floats. That's O.K. The city has won only 8 prizes for its floats since 1930 -- a rather remarkable rate of failure." Not earth shattering, but it can be infectious- this kind of ridicule, and from the city's lead newspaper! Sucks to be you if you have to read that kind of shit every morning. I read online, but I won't buy it anymore. Hardly a champion of this city Maybe the foreign ownership is the problem?

I totally agree... ever since The Tribune took over, the LA Times is a piece of crap. And in regards to pride, I'm a first generation immigrant and I have a lot of pride and love for LA. We don't need to wait for second, third or fourth generation to build our pride. LA is a phenomenal city of global stature and one of the most influential on the planet, enough to make you feel proud.

[VZN]

Originally Posted by milquetoast

: Maybe the foreign ownership is the problem?

I think what we all need to look at now is not so much as to why our media is so screwed up and negative, but how we can reclaim it so it'll make sense in our city. We may need a new paper altogether, yet it doesn't just stop with newspapers...

[klamedia]

a new paper would be a good start but with the decline of the newspaper industry does it really matter?

[milquetoast]

Over on citi-data, general u.s. section, the L. A. hate is so great that a thread stating that In - n - Out is overrated has about 4 pages of national activity. All today, amazing!

[kidA]

I've never had White Castle but THAT shit looks overrated.

[milquetoast]

Originally Posted by kidA

I've never had White Castle but THAT shit looks overrated.

Yeah! Little steamed burgers with onions- 'sliders' oooooh! I'll have to go back and bring that up. Only problem, they'll say they have their own movie

[Westsidelife]

I doubt 95% of them have ever had In-N-Out Burger.

[klamedia]

The White Castle non-enema enema.

[VZN]

image hosted on flickr


VS.





The closest I've had to White Castle burgers are the sliders you get in the store in the frozen foods section. I don't know how they are out of an actual WC joint, but from what I had that was nothing to get hyped up over.

In-N-Out on the other hand... I mean, c'mon. I don't wanna get too OT here, but look at that burger.

And for the record... City-Data needs a whole fucking e-nuke dropped on that site. Just tear out everyone and everything and start from scratch.