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Old September 4th, 2005, 01:52 AM   #21
mad_nick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
It's just that the Red and Blue lines of the L and the MTA have quad tracks, and they're able to inspect some, and use others. That's what I've always thought, at least about the ability to operate 24/7.
Not all lines have 4 tracks, there are also lines with 3 (peak-direction express) and 2 tracks. The L line is an entirely 2-tracked line, yet it's open 24/7. Despite of this, almost all stations in the subway are open 24/7. PATH is also open 24/7, and it's entirely 2-tracked.

Overnight frequencies are pretty low (every 20 minutes), and trains often slow down because of workers on the tracks at night, so I assume they inspect the tracks while trains are running.
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Old September 4th, 2005, 02:23 AM   #22
Bitxofo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku
Paris
for certain celebrates some lines of the subway remains open all the night
Also in Barcelona at:
23/6
23/9
31/12
The metro is open 48 consecutive hours, non stop!
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Old September 4th, 2005, 09:28 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superchan7
1am in Hong Kong. If you're out having fun, take the night bus routes or a taxi. Maintenance and renovations are done between 1am and 6am, and having a railway open too late makes it prone to vandalism from delinquents or drunkards.
Agree, also not a lot of people take the trains at night, so why waste money opening them?
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Old September 5th, 2005, 02:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_nick
Overnight frequencies are pretty low (every 20 minutes), and trains often slow down because of workers on the tracks at night, so I assume they inspect the tracks while trains are running.
Also, in NY the tracks are inspected with special cars, so they can run on the tracks without much interruption. I assume most other cities have the same method of checking tracks, so I don't understand how systems smaller than NY need so much time off.
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Old September 5th, 2005, 06:35 AM   #25
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The reasoning behind it is maintenance. If you don't have quad tracks, you can't do it, unless it is a maglev line. I've heard that Japan's got an extra reason, being the work culture (there are enough companies that make you work until last train, so imagine if there was no last train due to all night service?). It makes sense actually, scary as it may seem.
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Old September 5th, 2005, 06:50 AM   #26
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The last train of the night is actually one of the most crowded in Tokyo...

On New Years Eve, they run trains all night in Tokyo. Mostly for the temple visitors, but some partygoers too.

And I thought it might be nice if one direction of the Yamanote loop line ran 24/7, while maintenance worked on the other direction. But I guess JR East thinks it's too much of a hassle.
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Old September 5th, 2005, 07:10 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ
I've heard that Japan's got an extra reason, being the work culture (there are enough companies that make you work until last train, so imagine if there was no last train due to all night service?). It makes sense actually, scary as it may seem.

That's so true.
"I'm gonna miss the last train!" is the only excuse you can say to leave the work.
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Old September 5th, 2005, 11:21 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frungy
The last train of the night is actually one of the most crowded in Tokyo...

On New Years Eve, they run trains all night in Tokyo. Mostly for the temple visitors, but some partygoers too.

And I thought it might be nice if one direction of the Yamanote loop line ran 24/7, while maintenance worked on the other direction. But I guess JR East thinks it's too much of a hassle.
They do that in London too, the tube is free, but I end up walking - gets far too crowded above ground as it gets on New Years.


Most major cities that don't have 24/7 rail operations tend to be those with the largest bus networks. Hong Kong and London have the two largest developed city bus networks in existance running hundreds of routes with thousands of buses.

What is interesting though is that the networks which run 24/7, tend to have far poorer safety records (more fatalities, more crashes, more derailments, etc...). This though could also be explained by actual maintenance and funding, but it go someway as to explaining these problems. 24/7 running could also go a way to explaining why modernisation has been lagging behind other world cities (eg PSD's, electronic displays, contactless cards, etc) and why the network is generally a bit dirty and run-down.
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Old September 5th, 2005, 07:57 PM   #29
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"Most major cities that don't have 24/7 rail operations tend to be those with the largest bus networks. Hong Kong and London have the two largest developed city bus networks in existance running hundreds of routes with thousands of buses.

What is interesting though is that the networks which run 24/7, tend to have far poorer safety records (more fatalities, more crashes, more derailments, etc...). This though could also be explained by actual maintenance and funding, but it go someway as to explaining these problems. 24/7 running could also go a way to explaining why modernisation has been lagging behind other world cities (eg PSD's, electronic displays, contactless cards, etc) and why the network is generally a bit dirty and run-down."

I won't speak for New York because I don't know, but this really doesn't hold true for Chicago. Chicago has a very extensive bus network (twice as many people use buses than trains), a very good safety record (I don't think there's been a major crash since the 60s or 70s), electronic displays at every station, and contactless fare cards.
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Old September 5th, 2005, 09:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro
In London the tube makes a surprisingly long night break. (One Sunday I almost missed my flight because I didn't know that the tube begins so late.)

London: 5.30 - 0:00, Sundays 7:30 - 23:00
I beg to differ with your information

Train movements occur on the District Line (and presumably most other large LU lines) from 04:45 to 01:45

From Earl's Court (on the Western edge of Zone 1) the last trains to Richmond and Wimbledon depart at 00:50 and the last Ealing Broadway at 01:00, the last Upminster leaves at 00:25, but that then traverses Central London and heads out into Essex, terminating 1h10m away. In the morning the first trains leave the extremities before 05:00 (e.g. the first train to leave Wimbledon is the 04:55).

The last trains through Central London on any line are scheduled for around 00:30 and the first at around 05:00, but don't forget the depots are usually out in the suburbs and it takes well over 30 minutes to reach the extremities of some lines from Central London.

A line like mine (the District) only has around 3 hours of "Engineering Hours" where the Traction Current is switched off and work can take place, which is barely enough for a network 142 years old in places.

I know the NYC Subway can run 24h because most routes are 4 tracks, allowing diversions, but I am curious how other cities without the luxury of 4 tracks runs 24h without falling apart?
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Old September 6th, 2005, 02:30 AM   #31
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Brisbane is actually about to start running 24hr trains and buses on Fridays and Saturdays.
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Old September 6th, 2005, 03:22 AM   #32
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Cool!! I would like to take the sub at 3:00 a.m. just for fun
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Old September 6th, 2005, 05:21 AM   #33
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I have actually been told that having 3 or 4 track lines doesn't help as much as you would think as far as diversions for maintenance is concerned. If you need to do work on the local track, and divert the trains to the express tracks, then the train can only stop at the widely spaced express stations, leaving many stations without service. I have never taken either the NY subway or the Red or Blue line over night, so i have no idea if they do sometimes have to shut down service to local stations. Basically, I haven't a clue how they do maintenance either.
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Old September 6th, 2005, 06:37 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frungy
The last train of the night is actually one of the most crowded in Tokyo...

On New Years Eve, they run trains all night in Tokyo. Mostly for the temple visitors, but some partygoers too.

And I thought it might be nice if one direction of the Yamanote loop line ran 24/7, while maintenance worked on the other direction. But I guess JR East thinks it's too much of a hassle.
Depends on the line, but yeah, some lines have mad crazy packed last trains. Try leaving Shibuya on the last train via Tokyu (either line). Good luck, stay cozy.

As for New Year's, the subway does run all night, but only the popular lines for other companies beyond the subway service.

That's an interesting idea for the Yamanote line, but if I want to go from Shinjuku to Shibuya at 3 am, I don't wanna go via Tokyo Sta. =P.
I think that the maintenance workers don't want the dangers of being hit by one of those things while making repairs is the real reason though. It is possible they need space beyond their work lane (especially when no walls separate the two directions of service).


One particularly interesting thing to note about Tokyo is that, as the world's largest city, it has no night bus service, with very limited exceptions of special services. Tokyo sports a taxi army that could outnumber the U.S. Military. Taxis in Tokyo are, funnily enough, treated a bit like buses - this city has "Taxi Stops" in a fashion much like Bus Stops.
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Old September 6th, 2005, 07:14 AM   #35
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"I have never taken either the NY subway or the Red or Blue line over night, so i have no idea if they do sometimes have to shut down service to local stations. Basically, I haven't a clue how they do maintenance either."

I have! Basically, the guys hop on and off. And the trains go really slowly. In Chicago, a lot of the tracks (at least when I've been looking) have little wooden panels on the sides big enough to stand on.
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Old September 7th, 2005, 01:47 AM   #36
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> London: 5.30 - 0:00, Sundays 7:30 - 23:00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
I beg to differ with your information
Before posting those times I doublechecked with the TfL website. Those times are approximate departure times from central London.

I think tube operating times like that are not quite appopriate for the greatest city on Earth. (But for London's rehabilitation I have to admit that the night bus services are excellent.)
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Old September 8th, 2005, 05:19 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSPtoMKE
I have actually been told that having 3 or 4 track lines doesn't help as much as you would think as far as diversions for maintenance is concerned. If you need to do work on the local track, and divert the trains to the express tracks, then the train can only stop at the widely spaced express stations, leaving many stations without service. I have never taken either the NY subway or the Red or Blue line over night, so i have no idea if they do sometimes have to shut down service to local stations. Basically, I haven't a clue how they do maintenance either.
They do shut down local tracks but only in one direction. You have to go express one stop (express stop) and then go back on local train.

I've heard about 24 hour service in Tokyo.
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Old September 8th, 2005, 06:42 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusz_ny
I've heard about 24 hour service in Tokyo.
Dunno where from. It's not here, wish it was because the buses don't run at night either. I have never been on a bus in Tokyo before though (trains cover every half square-kilometer, busses are obsolete in this city, I love it!).

JR runs some night service across the country, and some private railways do long-distance overnight treks (Tobu (partnered with Aizu Rail) is one example of such special runs). I've heard of very few all night lines (there is a small handful, though no in the inner city proper it would seem).
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Old September 8th, 2005, 09:45 AM   #39
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Only 24 hour service in Tokyo is New Years Eve.

Taxi companies would revolt if railways operated 24 hours here. Many people (or their company accounts) shell out over 10,000 yen (100 USD) to get home after the last train.
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Old September 10th, 2005, 03:23 AM   #40
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São Paulo metro operates from 4:30 to midnight, like all other metros in Brazil, though Rio subway (which normally doesn´t even run on Sundays, can you believe it?) operates around the clock during carnival.
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