Ballard Developments

[mhays]

Something worthwhile? An apartment building not only helps energize ballard, but promotes transit and takes some pressure off sprawl. That's VERY worthwhile.

[bgwah]

I kind of like it. I also can't help but think tearing down buildings like this is what especially upsets neighborhood residents. They will feel like the character of their neighborhood is being destroyed by more bland condos and in turn be more opposed to development in general. Do we really want that?

[testdrive]

Maybe it could be remodeled into something that would better fit the changing population.....a restaurant with real atmosphere. That corner imo needs to remain commercial. There are more than enough places for more condos. What makes a neighborhood a neighborhood is a mix of things, hell these cookie cutter 6 story condos are
killing any sense of what would draw people into a neighborhood. In this particular case that intersection is prime property for something commercial.

[Ginkgo]

I live in Ballard and may be in the minority, but I like the new construction. It is not all bland--refer to the pictures on the first posting. I think many have character and are a great addition to the neighborhood--and in some cases a huge improvement over the rundown warehouses, tired commercial buildings and parking lot asphalt they replace. And we are talking downtown Ballard. Areas to the north which are heavily single family houses are not being overrun by condos and apartment buildings. Personally I think Denney's to be an eyesore and wouldn't mind it being razed. I will be sorry, though, to see Sunset Bowl [across the street from Denney's] close, as I enjoy going bowling there. But no one was holding a gun to the owner to sell to developers. He sold out for financial reasons, obviously. That's how it operates, for good or for ill.

[CityView Jim]

I guess the question to ask yourselves is, "Is this the type of building that should welcome residents and visitors as the gateway to such an up-and-coming neighborhood?"

[TheBellevueBoss]

Originally Posted by mhays

Then you'll hate what I heard at a presentation this morning. One of the speakers was Mike Scott from Dupree & Scott, which deals in the apartment market. He said that rents are lower than they ought to be compared to incomes in this region...by how much I don't remember, but it was a substantial difference. We've had large income growth since 2000, say, but rents were stable for years and only recently started rising. I think his projections were around 7% for each of the next two years, moderating a little at the end of that period. Vacancies are near a historic low at 3.8% today, and are projected to get down to 3.2% next year, before rising a bit in 2009 due to a potential large amount of new inventory.

That new inventory will get built but only if rents are high enough to pay construction costs. Rents were too low for much of this decade, and groundbreakings are only now starting in earnest because rents have risen and are expected to keep rising quickly. What counts, of course, is what rents will be when a building is complete.

The new units will generally be expensive, but 2009 is still good news for moderate-income renters, because the new units will allow the people with money to vacate the old units, allowing the old units to remain more affordable.

Regarding the QFC, to me, the current store and parking lot are blight, and serious underuse of a key block.

agreed...with the new and expensive inventory (both new construction and rehabs) coming online the demand will grow for b class apartments, unfortunatly that equates to rental increases for b class units...

same holds true for office space.....

these developers are banking on rental increases of 7% annually for the next 36 months to just to make their deals pencil...hope they are correct....as with every cycle, there is always someone that shows up last to the party, no need to mention names.....

I along with Mike Scot tend to belive that they apartment market winds will start to change in late 2009.....developers need to get their projects out of the ground immediately to avoid misfortune.....

[TheBellevueBoss]

Originally Posted by flotown

People are financing projects on faith that they will be high enough because right now rents by and large can't pay for new construction. So by the time we find out if rents do jump as much as expected, product will already be coming on the market. Should be interesting.

I would personally be more interetsed in a rehab deal vs. ground up construction as a devloper right now because you can get your product to market much quicker with far less expertise and hassel.....I have seen alot of rehab deals lately and in the past 12 months, so far they have all worked out very well and fannie mae is still providing perm loans at VERY affordable rates and flexible terms...

there are still a few rehab deals out there in the market but devlopers need to move fast....typically, I see people come in and do very cosmetic work and they jack the rents 30%....not a bad model for a developer....

If only I had the money......

[AzChristopher]

Originally Posted by mhays

Something worthwhile? An apartment building not only helps energize ballard, but promotes transit and takes some pressure off sprawl. That's VERY worthwhile.

I'm sorry but I must have forgotten about Seattle's rich history of saving buildings/districts instead of allowing corporations to tear them down.

This is a small building and for a long time it was nothing more than a Denny's, which mystically closed down right before the nomination was looked at, but it is a historic part of a neighborhood that is being altered significantly. Also keeping this building alone will not stop the creation of yet more apartment/condo buildings in Ballard.

Originally Posted by CityView Jim

I guess the question to ask yourselves is, "Is this the type of building that should welcome residents and visitors as the gateway to such an up-and-coming neighborhood?"

Some would say it was a great neighborhood already. If someone local refurbished the building and put in a nice 24 hour cafe I think it would be a great gateway. What better for an up-and-coming neighborhood than a place you can mingle and eat good food at anytime of day?

[mhays]

Something of appropriate density how about. The Denny's is a waste of land. Ballard should be a dense urban subcenter, which it's becoming.

Seattle has a checkered history of saving old buildings...more should be saved. But we should focus on quality as well as appropriate density. Not roadside schlock.

[AzChristopher]

Originally Posted by mhays

Something of appropriate density how about. The Denny's is a waste of land. Ballard should be a dense urban subcenter, which it's becoming.

Seattle has a checkered history of saving old buildings...more should be saved. But we should focus on quality as well as appropriate density. Not roadside schlock.

Which is your opinion of the building. There are plenty of people who disagree with you as well as those who agree. Personally I think the arguments are said best on crosscut. Not sure if you kept reading after your comment but there is a decently fluid debate there.

There is still plenty of room on that lot to build. As well as the opportunity for a creative developer to build something that incorporates the "Googie" building into something just a dense as a 200+ room apartment building.

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Is it possible to move the Denny's building to a park or something? I don't think saving that building if it's in that area is really good; Market Street and 15th Avenue NW is a high-traffic area, where high-density should be concentrated. If developers could move it, then I believe it would be much better.

[mhays]

Now there's a good idea. That would satisfy much of the architecture community's points.

The neighborhood anti-growth faction would hate it. They're in this primarily to stop growth (or to push it somewhere else if they think that far).

[citruspastels]

Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36

Is it possible to move the Denny's building to a park or something? I don't think saving that building if it's in that area is really good; Market Street and 15th Avenue NW is a high-traffic area, where high-density should be concentrated. If developers could move it, then I believe it would be much better.

that's a fantastic idea! move it out near golden gardens for rentable space or something similar.

[CityView Jim]

I'm sure it would be so simple to just pick it up and move it (insert sarcastic tone!).

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Originally Posted by CityView Jim

I'm sure it would be so simple to just pick it up and move it (insert sarcastic tone!).

If people want to keep the building that much, then i'm sure they would take the time and money to move it. I mean, look at the couple who bought some historical home in Kent for $1 and moved it to Seattle.

[CorePlus Seattle]

Originally Posted by TheBellevueBoss

agreed...with the new and expensive inventory (both new construction and rehabs) coming online the demand will grow for b class apartments, unfortunatly that equates to rental increases for b class units...

same holds true for office space.....

these developers are banking on rental increases of 7% annually for the next 36 months to just to make their deals pencil...hope they are correct....as with every cycle, there is always someone that shows up last to the party, no need to mention names.....

I along with Mike Scot tend to belive that they apartment market winds will start to change in late 2009.....developers need to get their projects out of the ground immediately to avoid misfortune.....

I agree the QFC site is an underuse of space...I believe this is a Secured Properties project...I like their work!!

As for the office space market...most developers are projecting a 8% to 30% increase in rents annually over the next two years. 2010 is when we are expecting to see an oversupplied market. I will be curious how the residential market fairs at the same time.

Ohh and Denny's as a historical site? That just irks me...it is an eyesore (in my opinion)

[SeaGuy]

Denny's needs to go whether it be on a flatbed or by demolition. More density good, Denny's bad.

[BoulderGrad]

Am I wrong or is it not a Denny's anymore? The pictures in the paper made it look just boarded up and abandoned at the moment.

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Originally Posted by BoulderGrad

Am I wrong or is it not a Denny's anymore? The pictures in the paper made it look just boarded up and abandoned at the moment.

Denny's closed; read the article.



I also read this opinion letter in the Seattle Times:

BALLARD DENNY'S

Reader not 'Googie' with the building

Regarding the Thursday article on the Landmarks Preservation Board voting 8-1 to consider nominating the Ballard Denny's building for preservation, I laughed out loud. I have never heard, or voiced, anything other than negative remarks about this ridiculous building from its Manning's Cafeteria days to now.

Of course, that was before I knew it was a fine example of "Googie" architecture. Well, maybe Google can be enticed into moving into the preserved space -- and it can then be treasured as "Googlie" architecture.

Kathy Frushour
Seattle

This just made me laugh, getting Google into a "Googie" building to make it "Googlie"!

[silence.kit]

Originally Posted by bgwah

I kind of like it. I also can't help but think tearing down buildings like this is what especially upsets neighborhood residents. They will feel like the character of their neighborhood is being destroyed by more bland condos and in turn be more opposed to development in general. Do we really want that?

Hear, hear!

It was the only Denny's I ever saw with a cocktail lounge. Anyway, I've already been vocal on this topic, but Ballard has enough condos as it is. That part of Market is already turning into a boring, condo infested strip. Why have another one? Maybe they can put another juice shop on the ground level. Or maybe a Coldstone? No thanks. That corner should be commercial. I'd love it if another Diner opened up. Not a Denny's, because they food's horrible, but a diner, and keep the cocktail lounge.

It's an eye-soar now, because it's boarded up, but it doesn't have to be. Frankly, I think the large overgrown, even weed-like, condos are more of an eye-soar than a building with actual character.