Marlins Stadium thread

[Roark]

Originally Posted by spellbound

Of course (as I suspect you remember), back then you could also pay an OB gate attendant ten bucks to sneak you into a sold-out game. Different times.

Yeah...haven't been to a college game in years, but in 2002, it was a nice treat to be on the sidelines in the Coker era to watch the 'Canes play against Florida State when it was #1 against #2 and other great games.

[sonnyinmiami]

As Simon Cowell would say, "You Can't be serious". A petition should be started voicing the angst of all Marlins Fans regarding this Joke of a homerun feature. Otherwise, can you even begin to imagine the replays on ESPN & other teams sports networks every time as homerun is hit, Especially if it's the opposing team's longball. It'll be the laughing stock of all baseball..., my goodness !!!

[Festa]

I like this.

[Hia-leah JDM]

It's not what I was expecting, but it's fine. I can take that, the homerun skit on the other hand is a complete joke.

[kevinkagy]

Unless you know about it, 'Miami Orange Bowl' is not legible in those designs. Like Hia-leah, I was expecting something much different, but it's not bad.

[1772]

http://www.miamiherald.com/508/index...&genre_id=4458

Dave Barry of the Herald is still complaining on the build.
Although i agree with him, I say; get over it.

[rmc523]

I agree with those who think the home run feature looks stupid, at least from those renderings.

As for the "Miami Orange Bowl" lettering on the ground - I think it's a cool idea, although many letters are missing from the name - perhaps on purpose to make it seem like some were lost?

[Festa]

January construction update: http://www.soflamarlins.com/showthread.php?t=1535

[Endeavor305]

image hosted on flickr

[xerxesjc28]

WOW that post and lintel looks like the entrance to a giant Greek temple or to a coliseum.

[Roark]

End our spring baseball shutout: Marlins should run home

By Michael Lewis
Commentary
As a Miami ballpark rises on time for a 2012 opening and on budget for $3 billion in tax spending, Major League Baseball shows its gratitude by wiping out South Florida spring games for the first time in more than 60 years.
Paradoxically, while in-season games in a $3 billion ballpark will add nothing to our economy, now-lost spring games actually did add local jobs and spending.
So while we bowed to pressure to empty our wallets on a stadium or risk losing the Florida Marlins, a few miles north baseball removed the Baltimore Orioles after 14 years as an engine of spending.
While the Marlins' impact in six months here is close to zero, the Orioles generated about $47 million and 7,000-plus jobs each spring.
It's a puzzle why big league summer games are worth so much less locally than spring games that mean nothing to league standings — but it's so.
Studies at regular season games have shown that at best 1% visited overnight primarily to attend. The Marlins' 2009 average of 18,770 tickets means about 188 out-of-towners came here per game.
Spring is far different.
A study for the Florida Sports Foundation found that 23.1% of the average 6,030 at each 2009 spring game came from another state or nation primarily for baseball. That's 1,393, more than seven times as many as a summer game.
In fact, of the 1.56 million who attended Florida spring games in 2009, 48% were from out of state, including some who didn't come primarily for baseball but made it one added reason to visit.
Those 361,032 who came primarily for baseball in the six-week training period spent $571.8 million that Florida wouldn't otherwise have had.
Many spring fans vacation to see their hometown team play, timing trips to baseball. At all Florida spring games in 2009, 5.3% came from New York, 3.9% from Canada, 3.4% from Philadelphia, 3% from Minneapolis and 2.4% from Boston.
Those coming just for baseball topped average spring attendees in education and had far more income, with 44.9% over $80,000. And they spent an average of $371.56 daily, as 46% shopped, 17% visited museums and historical sites, 12% went to performing arts presentations, 34% to nature-based locations and 22% golfed. When they come for spring baseball, we get bang for their bucks in every area.
Spring baseball also brings 'em back. Last year, 30% made their first spring visit but more than 95% said they'd return, a percentage that ripples through an economy.
One more thing: while the few out-of-towners at summer games might view a three-day series, the average spring game visitor stays 7.53 nights — mostly in hotels.
Higher income, longer stays and extraordinary return percentages equal true value from spring games — and they don't use huge stadiums, either.
None of that spending do we get from our soon-to-open $3 billion "investment" in baseball, but it's the spring value — which comes after our winter visitor season when hotels need a shot in the wallet — that was just ripped out of South Florida as our reward for mortgaging our future for four decades for a stadium.
South Florida's long spring baseball history started in the 20-year-old City of Miami in 1916 with the Boston Braves. Miami has hosted the Cincinnati Reds (1920), Brooklyn Dodgers (1933 and 1950-1958), New York Giants (1941-1942), St. Louis Browns (1947) and Baltimore Orioles (1959-1988).
Miami Beach also welcomed the boys of spring: New York Giants (1934-1935), Philadelphia Phillies (1940-1942 and 1946), Pittsburgh Pirates (1947).
Fort Lauderdale had the Yankees from 1962 to 1995, then the Orioles, who left after last season. With West Palm Beach also bare of former teams like the Athletics (1946-1962) and Braves (1963-1997), the nearest East Coast spring game now is in Jupiter, where the Marlins and the St. Louis Cardinals train.
Why are we shut out of spring baseball when we spent like maniacs for summer?
Certainly not for lack of a ballpark.
Although the Marlins reject Sun Life Stadium, it handled 18,000-plus fans a game last year.
We also built a top-of-the-line spring home 19 years ago that's still awaiting a major league tenant.
To lure big leaguers, Homestead built a $22 million, 6,500-seat stadium with dorms for 200 players and signed up the Cleveland Indians for two springs with options for 20 more.
But they never used the park. After Hurricane Andrew, they moved "temporarily" to Winter Haven — and broke their commitment.
Remember that so-called ironclad agreement that keeps the Marlins here? Well, Major League Baseball has final say about whether a team need honor any deal. The Indians didn't, and the city got not a penny in return.
Baseball says it won't return to South Florida for spring because teams would be too far apart, but with two fine ballparks already and a third to open in two years, Miami-Dade could handle three spring teams with no travel at all.
In fact, there's no reason the Marlins, beneficiaries of our $3 billion gift to owner Jeffrey Loria and Co., shouldn't be one of them.
We're building them the house. They have Homestead at the ready. And they have our money.
The least they could do is return a pittance of our $3 billion largesse by leaving spring spending and jobs here — a return we don't get the rest of the year.
The Tampa Bay Rays, after all, have trained at home in St. Petersburg since their 1998 founding. They at least respect hometown fans and wallets.
Why not the Marlins? When is Major League Baseball going to start giving us back even a thin dime?

[spellbound]

With all due respect to the writer, he doesn't seem to have a good grasp of the facts or the dynamics involved.

For starters, is he unaware that Sun Life Stadium is to be converted to a football-only facility once the Marlins depart? The moveable seating on the north side (which makes an outfield possible) will be reconfigured to put seats closer to the football sidelines---as will be the case all around the stadium, which will also eliminate the baseball dugouts. Baseball will simply be a physical impossibility there after the 2011 season.

Even if that were not to be the case, it would never be an option because of the operational costs involved in opening and staffing such a huge facility versus the much smaller overhead in smaller Spring-training facilities.

For the same reason, the new Marlins ballpark would also be unworkable as a Spring site. Much too expensive to open and staff for Spring training. That's the reason you don't see clubs like the Rays and Diamondbacks (both of whom play in Spring-training hotbeds) using their own home stadiums.

Not to mention that an essential part of any Spring-training facility is actual practice fields that teams employ---even during games. The Marlins park doesn't offer that and no team would put themselves at that disadvantage.

That leaves the Homestead facility, but there are two MAJOR flaws there. First, it would take a lot of money (well into the millions) to bring it up to the standards that other teams routinely enjoy at their facilities. The days of simple wooden stands are long gone and nearly every Spring facility these days has tons of modern bells and whistles. What the writer perceives as a "top-of-the-line" faciliity is actually quite dated.

Second (and most importantly) is simple geography. Homestead---even if the money was spent---is simply too far away from the rest of the teams for anyone to isolate themselves there and take on a travel burden that no other team would have to deal with.

I absolutely understand the writer's frustration with South Florida losing Spring ball (and the money involved) but he's just not realistic about the situation and not fully informed on the matter. Spring training has become concentrated where it is because of a combination of prudent economics and a wave of new and/or vastly improved facilities. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by spellbound

With all due respect to the writer, he doesn't seem to have a good grasp of the facts or the dynamics involved.

Facts of the number of people that come from out of town to spend dollars on Spring baseball? I know that he has done his homework on that issue.

You said, 'he doesn't seem to have a good grasp of the facts or the dynamics involved" in general, but you probably meant about the stadium layouts specifically right?

He never suggests that Spring Ball should be played in Marlins Stadium.

His point was, that IF it was necessary to upgrade Homestead or any other ballpark for that matter, THEN the Marlins should have the decency to do that after that sweetheart deal they received from the taxpayers. If it takes $2Million to upgrade, then do it. That is less than .4% of the Marlin Stadium budget. If it is $4M then the Marlins should just do it.

[spellbound]

Originally Posted by Roark

Facts of the number of people that come from out of town to spend dollars on Spring baseball? I know that he has done his homework on that issue.

Not in dispute...which is why I said I understand his frustration.

Originally Posted by Roark

You said, 'he doesn't seem to have a good grasp of the facts or the dynamics involved" in general, but you probably meant about the stadium layouts specifically right?

It's much more than that, as I said.

I specifically mentioned the future layout of Sun Life Stadium because the writer mentioned it as a possible site but is apparently unaware that the stadium is to be reconfigured into a football-only facility where baseball would be physically impossible because of the elimination of the outfield and dugouts. He should have done his homework on that beforehand. It's common knowledge to anyone following the stadium situation.

Additionally, I mentioned the operational/overhead costs involved in trying to staff and operate Spring games in a major-league facility (which nobody does---and never has) as well as the competitive necessity of having adjacent practice fields---which every team demands. Anyone who has ever attended a Spring game in the modern era (Roger Dean Stadium in Jupiter would be the closest) has seen dozens of pitchers, catchers and other prospects working out on adjacent fields---even during games in the stadium itself. Not to mention dorms and office facilities for hundreds of staff and players, as well as the economic and logistical desire of every team to be in close proximity to each other. The writer barely acknowledges any of it, yet Spring ball in the modern era doesn't happen without ALL of it.

Again, not a good grasp of the dynamics involved by the writer.

Originally Posted by Roark

He never suggests that Spring Ball should be played in Marlins Stadium.

Actually, he does:

"Baseball says it won't return to South Florida for spring because teams would be too far apart, but with two fine ballparks already and a third to open in two years, Miami-Dade could handle three spring teams with no travel at all."

Unless he's talking about some some phantom ballpark that nobody is aware of, the one to "open in two years" that could handle one of "three spring teams" would be Marlins Stadium.

And one of the "two fine ballparks" he mentions that already exist would be the aforementioned Sun Life---which we already know WON'T be able to host baseball.

If you read that any differently, please tell me how.

Again, wholly uninformed on the writer's part and that's without even getting into his "no travel at all" thesis which doesn't even BEGIN to make any sense. Does he think two or three teams just play each other over and over all Spring?? Cripes, you follow the game and know how silly that sounds.

Originally Posted by Roark

His point was, that IF it was necessary to upgrade Homestead or any other ballpark for that matter, THEN the Marlins should have the decency to do that after that sweetheart deal they received from the taxpayers. If it takes $2Million to upgrade, then do it. That is less than .4% of the Marlin Stadium budget. If it is $4M then the Marlins should just do it.

I think his point is frustration over the financial deal the city and county are saddled with in regards to the new ballpark. And rightfully so. I share those sentiments.

He should have stuck to that point, however, as his understanding of Spring ball...the dynamics involved...the geographic/logistical realities and the facilities he's talking about is quite uninformed, unrealistic, and very poorly researched.

Maybe he's like one of those New Times writers just out of journalism school and will get better. As is, however, he needs a crash course.

[brickell]

Silly is the best way to describe it. I was with him when he was railing against the spending in the first place, now it just sounds like whining. Spellbound hit all the major points so I won't reitterate. It was a miracle the Orioles stayed as long as they did. Spring Baseball in Miami/Broward is dead. I'll be happy if we can just keep the rest of the teams in Florida instead of fleeing to Arizona.

Further, the Marlins have a perfect home up in Jupiter. It's a great training facility, great stadium, has a built in opponent (Cardinals), keeps the Palm Beach fans interested and is close enough to draw Broward and Miami fans.

[Hia-leah JDM]

MARCH 2010

image hosted on flickr

[lamsalfl]

The writer also failed to research that the Rays are not in St. Petersburg for ST. This is their SECOND year in Port Charlotte.

[Endeavor305]

March 11, 2010

image hosted on flickr

[spellbound]

Originally Posted by lamsalfl

The writer also failed to research that the Rays are not in St. Petersburg for ST. This is their SECOND year in Port Charlotte.

Ouch. Well, at least he spelled his name right.

(actually, Michael Lewis is the publisher of Miami Today. I sent him a polite e-mail listing all the factual errors in the column so he can hopefully be more informed on the issue)

[Roark]

Spell, clearly you have a grasp on your stadiums.
The main point is, that if there is political will to keep the Marlins, there should be as much if not more political will to do what it takes to retain or attract Spring Ball.
More than a New Times journalist. Michael Lewis is the Founder/owner /editor of the 30 year paper. I
nterestingly, his family built Wrigley Field. He is a big baseball fan.