The Seattle Streetcar Thread - Page 24

rathersmart · December 8th, 2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgwah

Ballard isn't gonna get the next streetcar line and the next light rail line. This is simple politics.

This streetcar means we won't see light rail to Ballard for decades if ever.

No more garbage half-solutions. Grade-separated or nothing!*

*the study they're doing will include light rail estimates though IIRC, so they should go ahead with that at least.

I still hope you are wrong.

If the streetcar is successful why put it down?

BoulderGrad · December 11th, 2011, 11:52 PM

The Powerpad Streetcar.
http://seattletransitblog.com/2011/1...ry-free-trams/

No overhead cantery, no third rails. Kinda cool

Also, the size of the tram shown in the video is the size of tram I'd like to see for a new Downtown to Fremot/Ballard line.

CrazyAboutCities · December 12th, 2011, 04:38 PM

I really like it. I can see a new downtown to Ballard-Fremont line to have that kind of tram.

sequoias · December 13th, 2011, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities

I really like it. I can see a new downtown to Ballard-Fremont line to have that kind of tram.

You don't want that lol. It only has top speed of 25 mph on the 3rd rail shoes. The Seattle streetcar can go up to 45-50 mph which is the spec of the train, same with Tacoma Link. Many city buses go up to 35-40 mph on the city streets without trying.

Doomgoggles · December 13th, 2011, 05:10 PM

Ah, that's a good point. Definitely more for a short stop spacing dense line than a long distance neighbourhood connector.

BoulderGrad · December 13th, 2011, 07:12 PM

I more just thought the technology was cool. Like I said: Power Pad Tram

However, the size of tram shown would be a good transition between Link trains and our current streetcars. For our 'rapid' lines, we should have something that size.

rathersmart · December 13th, 2011, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities

I really like it. I can see a new downtown to Ballard-Fremont line to have that kind of tram.

I have heard that this type of rail is ridiculously more expensive than the traditional kind.

SEATTLE-AIGHT · December 16th, 2011, 07:19 AM

I wholeheartedly support the plan of expanding the Seattle trolly/streetcar system. I think trams are not only practical, but I think they add a charming quality to the local neighborhoods.

I must note that I do not approve of the "honor system" that takes place in the South Lake Union line. Even though many do partake in paying their fare, I don't think it is a reliable or realistic strategy. That said, I am not sure what alternatives could be used.

My family has lived in and around Seattle since the late 1800's. I have heard many stories of the former Seattle trolley network, and the city itself back in the day.

I found this video on youtube a couple of months ago. It is a propaganda piece (I assume from GM) depicting Seattle's change from Streetcars to trolley busses. What a horrible decision to make in retrospect, but I thought it was worthy of sharing, even though the quality is quite poor.

http://youtu.be/Fz3PgEQW5G0

seawastate · December 16th, 2011, 08:24 AM

I would imagine a DT Seattle - Fremont - Ballard streetcar could be completed pretty quickly.

There used to be a railroad that ran next to Westlake Ave along Lake Union which is now a trail/parking lot for which we could utilize the right of way.

Then, the streetcar could piggyback on Fremont Bridge (originally constructed with streetcars) and continue on through Fremont and Ballard.

Depending on how much of the row along Lake Union could be used for a streetcar, this could be built with limited running on the actual roadway and relatively cheaply too.

Imagine, construction starts 2012-2013, by 2014 the construction is completed and we will have a reliable transit connection in completed in two years. This could serve as a "stop-gap" until an actual LRT/Subway line to Ballard is built (which I assume will have to wait until North Link to at least Northgate is completed around 2020).

Or am I just dreaming?

CityView Jim · December 16th, 2011, 04:05 PM

Not dreaming but a little agressive on your timeline. Add about another 3-4 years for alternative analysis, environmental impact study, planning, property acquisition (where necessary), etc. Construction of the First Hill run is to take a little over a year. The Ballard line would take much longer and I still wonder how to run it across the Fremont Bridge.

mhays · December 16th, 2011, 05:04 PM

True on timeline. Funding and design would be major additional elements, though partially concurrent with a lot of those other items.

CityView Jim · February 16th, 2012, 01:05 AM

Construction starts in April!

http://capitolhillseattle.com/2012/0...begin-in-april

mSeattle · February 17th, 2012, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CityView Jim

Construction starts in April!

http://capitolhillseattle.com/2012/0...begin-in-april

I wonder if it will be a traffic mess like the SLU construction?

Matt the Engineer · February 17th, 2012, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mSeattle

I wonder if it will be a traffic mess like the SLU construction?

Doubt it. Most everything there are grid surface streets, which can handle disruption well (slow traffic on Jackson? go to Yesler. or King. or...). SLU has one of the few freeway on/offramp in that area of the city, so everyone west of there pretty much had to pass through that area.

CityView Jim · February 17th, 2012, 04:30 PM

However, this isn't just the installing of tracks, wires, and a few islands. It also includes (along Broadway) the cycle track and a 'road diet' to some degree. I think primarily loss of parking, but some lane loss too.

Nexis · March 19th, 2012, 01:15 PM

Why isn't the route double tracked the entire way?

alexjonlin · March 20th, 2012, 09:06 AM

Pretty sure it is.

CityView Jim · March 20th, 2012, 05:27 PM

Part (most?) of the Broadway leg is single track. Probably to save loss of parking.

alexjonlin · March 21st, 2012, 04:27 AM

Just the northernmost block of the streetcar along Broadway is single track so that it can turn around. Same with the westernmost block along Jackson at that terminus.

Black Box · April 11th, 2012, 05:47 PM

Cycle track included!seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017951931_streetcar11m.html

December 11th, 2011, 11:52 PM	#462
BoulderGrad Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,358 Likes (Received): 39	The Powerpad Streetcar. http://seattletransitblog.com/2011/1...ry-free-trams/ No overhead cantery, no third rails. Kinda cool Also, the size of the tram shown in the video is the size of tram I'd like to see for a new Downtown to Fremot/Ballard line. __________________ My shrink once said to me: "Maybe life isn't for everyone..."

December 13th, 2011, 07:12 PM	#466
BoulderGrad Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,358 Likes (Received): 39	I more just thought the technology was cool. Like I said: Power Pad Tram However, the size of tram shown would be a good transition between Link trains and our current streetcars. For our 'rapid' lines, we should have something that size. __________________ My shrink once said to me: "Maybe life isn't for everyone..."

March 19th, 2012, 01:15 PM	#476
Nexis Greetings form New Jersey Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Along the Pascack Valley line Posts: 4,354 Likes (Received): 122	Why isn't the route double tracked the entire way? __________________ My FLICKR Page http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/ Check it out , i have Great Road , Rail , Cityscape and Nature Photos Check Out my Youtube Channel , lots of Regional Rail , Subway , Light Rail and Sim City 4 videos http://www.youtube.com/user/Nexis4Jersey

April 11th, 2012, 05:47 PM	#480
Black Box Black Box Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 904 Likes (Received): 26	Cycle track included!seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017951931_streetcar11m.html __________________ mountains water city water mountains

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December 12th, 2011, 04:38 PM	#463
CrazyAboutCities Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 8,329 Likes (Received): 15	I really like it. I can see a new downtown to Ballard-Fremont line to have that kind of tram.

December 13th, 2011, 05:10 PM	#465
Doomgoggles Unregistered non-user Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Seattle/Kitsap Posts: 739 Likes (Received): 39	Ah, that's a good point. Definitely more for a short stop spacing dense line than a long distance neighbourhood connector.

December 16th, 2011, 07:19 AM	#468
SEATTLE-AIGHT Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Seattle Washington Posts: 3 Likes (Received): 0	I wholeheartedly support the plan of expanding the Seattle trolly/streetcar system. I think trams are not only practical, but I think they add a charming quality to the local neighborhoods. I must note that I do not approve of the "honor system" that takes place in the South Lake Union line. Even though many do partake in paying their fare, I don't think it is a reliable or realistic strategy. That said, I am not sure what alternatives could be used. My family has lived in and around Seattle since the late 1800's. I have heard many stories of the former Seattle trolley network, and the city itself back in the day. I found this video on youtube a couple of months ago. It is a propaganda piece (I assume from GM) depicting Seattle's change from Streetcars to trolley busses. What a horrible decision to make in retrospect, but I thought it was worthy of sharing, even though the quality is quite poor. http://youtu.be/Fz3PgEQW5G0

December 16th, 2011, 08:24 AM	#469
seawastate Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 54 Likes (Received): 0	I would imagine a DT Seattle - Fremont - Ballard streetcar could be completed pretty quickly. There used to be a railroad that ran next to Westlake Ave along Lake Union which is now a trail/parking lot for which we could utilize the right of way. Then, the streetcar could piggyback on Fremont Bridge (originally constructed with streetcars) and continue on through Fremont and Ballard. Depending on how much of the row along Lake Union could be used for a streetcar, this could be built with limited running on the actual roadway and relatively cheaply too. Imagine, construction starts 2012-2013, by 2014 the construction is completed and we will have a reliable transit connection in completed in two years. This could serve as a "stop-gap" until an actual LRT/Subway line to Ballard is built (which I assume will have to wait until North Link to at least Northgate is completed around 2020). Or am I just dreaming?

December 16th, 2011, 04:05 PM	#470
CityView Jim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,960 Likes (Received): 62	Not dreaming but a little agressive on your timeline. Add about another 3-4 years for alternative analysis, environmental impact study, planning, property acquisition (where necessary), etc. Construction of the First Hill run is to take a little over a year. The Ballard line would take much longer and I still wonder how to run it across the Fremont Bridge.

December 16th, 2011, 05:04 PM	#471
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,376 Likes (Received): 119	True on timeline. Funding and design would be major additional elements, though partially concurrent with a lot of those other items.

February 16th, 2012, 01:05 AM	#472
CityView Jim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,960 Likes (Received): 62	Construction starts in April! http://capitolhillseattle.com/2012/0...begin-in-april

February 17th, 2012, 04:30 PM	#475
CityView Jim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,960 Likes (Received): 62	However, this isn't just the installing of tracks, wires, and a few islands. It also includes (along Broadway) the cycle track and a 'road diet' to some degree. I think primarily loss of parking, but some lane loss too.

March 20th, 2012, 09:06 AM	#477
alexjonlin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,260 Likes (Received): 84	Pretty sure it is.

March 20th, 2012, 05:27 PM	#478
CityView Jim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,960 Likes (Received): 62	Part (most?) of the Broadway leg is single track. Probably to save loss of parking.

March 21st, 2012, 04:27 AM	#479
alexjonlin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,260 Likes (Received): 84	Just the northernmost block of the streetcar along Broadway is single track so that it can turn around. Same with the westernmost block along Jackson at that terminus.