The Seattle Streetcar Thread

[mokocoko]

Originally Posted by mhays

Buses have a vastly lower first cost. The cheapness is only about operations. That's why $50 million per year would result in a much higher service increase than rail could accomplish for that sort of money.

(A mile or two. That's funny! I'm talking about improving dozens of routes all over town.)

$50 million would get you service hours about like what transit now did, which we still have barely seen a lick of service out of in the city.

[BellevueGuy]

(Sorry to bump up old thread)

I am a huge fan of the proposed streetcar network. SLU and Capitol Hill are done deal. If they build the First Ave line, that would be an awesome network. Imagine going to Space Needle, Queen Anne, Olympic Park, Belltown, Westlake, Pike Place, Pioneer Square, Chinatown and Capitol Hill... all in the comfort of the train.

And if they can get the money (somehow), the line will only take 2 years as well. (Compare to East Link going to Redmond in 2024!)

Anyone loves or hates it?

[old_smithy]

Funny how the "propsed" routes almost mirror the original streetcar lines we had around the turn of the century. What goes around, comes around...I guess!

[uwhuskies]

Originally Posted by BellevueGuy

(Sorry to bump up old thread)

I am a huge fan of the proposed streetcar network. SLU and Capitol Hill are done deal. If they build the First Ave line, that would be an awesome network. Imagine going to Space Needle, Queen Anne, Olympic Park, Belltown, Westlake, Pike Place, Pioneer Square, Chinatown and Capitol Hill... all in the comfort of the train.

And if they can get the money (somehow), the line will only take 2 years as well. (Compare to East Link going to Redmond in 2024!)

Anyone loves or hates it?

Has anyone wondered why the Sound Transit authorities just build a Streetcar system for the ENTIRE county? The cost per mile and build times are so much quicker than the LINK LR system. And, given that LINK travels at grade for a large part of its current route, the apparent advantage of LR over Streetcars does not seem so obvious.

[Capitol Hill]

The route through Capitol Hill is not yet settled. On the Capitol Hill Blog, there is a large contingent of people who want it to go down 12th ave. turning on E. John, to Broadway then back down Broadway towards Boren and back down the hill. This routing would be one way, so who knows? The First Hill Hospitals don't like it, but Seattle University and the Cherry Hill campus of Swedish do, as do people who are pushing the further development of 12th Ave.

[sequoias]

Looks like SLUT will funnel lot of the ridership from Ballard, Wallingford and University of WA, which is why we have the starter line. It might be possible SLUT will run every 5 minutes and may have to find another site for a bigger streetcar mantience center. I think SLUT line needs 2 tracks at the end at Westlake instead of 1 track to link to 1st ave streetcar. That seems obvious why they are building a plaza for riders to wait for the train or something.

[CrazyAboutCities]

I have been told by someone that involved with Seattle Streetcar Network planning that there is high chance to get most of proposed streetcar routes to get built by 2016. They are slated to get start to design it this coming fall.

[mhays]

I really wish they would add Queen Anne Hill. They'd need a new cable system, and there would need to be lots of redundant safety measures, but isn't that possible?

If there's a solution to the hill issue, a route the length of Madison is obvious.

How about Market/45th?

[BellevueGuy]

Originally Posted by sequoias

Looks like SLUT will funnel lot of the ridership from Ballard, Wallingford and University of WA, which is why we have the starter line. It might be possible SLUT will run every 5 minutes and may have to find another site for a bigger streetcar mantience center. I think SLUT line needs 2 tracks at the end at Westlake instead of 1 track to link to 1st ave streetcar. That seems obvious why they are building a plaza for riders to wait for the train or something.

I have to say from this map, the planning for SLUT is not that idiotic, though of course heavily influenced by certain developer. I guess people have to see the bigger picture.

They are going to link SLUT to First Ave line so all the trains can use the current going-to-be-expanded maintanence facility.

All sounds very reasonable.

[BellevueGuy]

Originally Posted by Capitol Hill

On the Capitol Hill Blog, there is a large contingent of people who want it to go down 12th ave. turning on E. John, to Broadway then back down Broadway towards Boren and back down the hill. This routing would be one way, so who knows?

I like this idea actually. Maybe for First Ave line, they can put one direction on First and the other direction on Second?

This would reduce the impact on traffic by a lot, which in turns making the train go faster.

Downside is that people might find it confusing at first.

[BellevueGuy]

Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities

I have been told by someone that involved with Seattle Streetcar Network planning that there is high chance to get most of proposed streetcar routes to get built by 2016. They are slated to get start to design it this coming fall.

I don't see the needs for the line going to UW, given the LR.

The line to Fremont and Ballard will be very exciting.

[tmaxxfreak11]

Originally Posted by uwhuskies

Has anyone wondered why the Sound Transit authorities just build a Streetcar system for the ENTIRE county? The cost per mile and build times are so much quicker than the LINK LR system. And, given that LINK travels at grade for a large part of its current route, the apparent advantage of LR over Streetcars does not seem so obvious.

The speeds aren't comparable, at all. The Link averages nearly 30 mph, faster than the streetcar can even go on city streets. The link runs in a dedicated right of way and has signal priority, the streetcar doesn't. By the way, the at-grade part of Link is about 5 miles, less than 1/3 of the system. Once ST2 is built out, that percentage will go down again, and most likely average speed will go up.

[CrazyAboutCities]

Originally Posted by mhays

I really wish they would add Queen Anne Hill. They'd need a new cable system, and there would need to be lots of redundant safety measures, but isn't that possible?

If there's a solution to the hill issue, a route the length of Madison is obvious.

How about Market/45th?

I'd love to see that to happen too.

Originally Posted by BellevueGuy

I like this idea actually. Maybe for First Ave line, they can put one direction on First and the other direction on Second?

This would reduce the impact on traffic by a lot, which in turns making the train go faster.

Downside is that people might find it confusing at first.

There is plan for possible downtown tunnel extension on 2nd for light rail extensions. Possibly will not have a streetcar on 2nd. I think the one on 1st Ave makes more senses.

Originally Posted by BellevueGuy

I don't see the needs for the line going to UW, given the LR.

The line to Fremont and Ballard will be very exciting.

My understanding that they will do SLUT extension to University District sometime after 2016. I think it is needed because there are a lot of students and staffs live on Eastlake too. Light rail won't stop that neighborhood. That will give SLUT big boost on ridership for that area.

I am more excited about the line to Fremont and Ballard than any line because I live in Fremont and will use it more often when it opens.

[jessejb]

If they get the streetcar linked up to Ballard and Fremont, they can expect a good deal of tourist traffic. This will drive NIMBYs crazy!!!

[CityView Jim]

Originally Posted by BellevueGuy

I don't see the needs for the line going to UW, given the LR.

The line to Fremont and Ballard will be very exciting.

The difference is that the SLUT will move slower and have many stops between a UW terminus and Fred Hutch. It will serve a greater market with maybe half a dozen stops along Eastlake whereas the LINK will move quickly but serve two markets before downtown (UW and Capitol Hill).

[CityView Jim]

Originally Posted by Capitol Hill

The route through Capitol Hill is not yet settled. On the Capitol Hill Blog, there is a large contingent of people who want it to go down 12th ave. turning on E. John, to Broadway then back down Broadway towards Boren and back down the hill. This routing would be one way, so who knows? The First Hill Hospitals don't like it, but Seattle University and the Cherry Hill campus of Swedish do, as do people who are pushing the further development of 12th Ave.

I don't see how this line can go down Broadway. It's already congested enough. Doing a North/South run would eliminate dozens of parking spaces and piss off merchants. I think running up 12th is a great idea with maybe an end loop around Cal Anderson Park to meet up with the LINK station. Eliminating parking on 12th may not be so deadly as there are more surface lots behind and under business popping up there.

[sequoias]

Originally Posted by BellevueGuy

I have to say from this map, the planning for SLUT is not that idiotic, though of course heavily influenced by certain developer. I guess people have to see the bigger picture.

They are going to link SLUT to First Ave line so all the trains can use the current going-to-be-expanded maintanence facility.

All sounds very reasonable.

Yea, I believe they will use the same maintanence barn...I didn't think they had room to expand to hold more trains. I wonder if they will use the exact same new rolling stock as what we have now. I wish they used skirts to cover the ulgy stuff on the top of the train, like the Tacoma Link and Portland streetcar has skirts.

[mhays]

They would have to add a second, much larger barn. Or possibly another one for each major line.

[RMacherat]

Originally Posted by BellevueGuy

(Sorry to bump up old thread)

I am a huge fan of the proposed streetcar network.

I don't think you're alone. Look at all these replies in just one day.

[tmaxxfreak11]

I love the idea of the streetcar network as well, that is, as long as it does not get too redundant with Link. More specifically, on the Ballard-Seattle segment. The streetcar network should serve as a feeder to the light rail or to major destinations where light rail is not an option.