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Old June 21st, 2013, 01:40 PM   #1341
patrykus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luhai View Post
Just look at maps, I almost accepted a Job in Tianjin. (another company took me with higher salary that ended my sea turtle aspirations...) In the Bohai New Area too, not exactly a place I want to go. Like you said, Bohai new area a new city, but it's also a city without much going on. Good place to visit and awe, but not a good place to live. (If they at offer 15-20 minute commute, it could be a good place to work..) It can a great place to work and live, and it take times to setup a eco-system.

However, Xiqing District where Goldin 117 is located has for some reason resisted sprawl, and just beginning to. it's an undeveloped area that's relative close to city center, and can be easily hooked to existing metro network and give reasonable commute times. It's essentially part of Urban sprawl of Tianjin. (Just hope this multiple urban center model will not end up with a city like Los Angles Metro Area...)

Overview of Tianjin metro area. (Note the clear line between Xiqing District and Tianjin Center, with nearly no urban sprawl bleeding the line)
http://s23.postimg.org/fg3qdkky3/overview.jpg

Golden 117 and surrounding area
http://s18.postimg.org/4mlhh0hjd/Tianjin.jpg

Yujiapu and surrounding area, with exception of TEDA and Yujiapu + Xiangluowan. it's a sea of factory, warehouses and port facilities...
http://s8.postimg.org/m9qxjzmd1/Yujiapu.jpg

The good things is both projects has metro near by, however neither has one right in the center of the development.
From the point of view of a person looking for a place to live right now it probably is better to look for goldin (if you don't mind remote location and 10km distance from the city center) because it will be completed faster. Obviously binhai new are will take longer because it's a huge project. But when it's done it will be completely new city with business district in the center and residential area within 1,5km distance. I'd say it won't need metro connection with the old city because everything will be there, although it will have high speed rail connection and generally much better transit system than goldin. Obviously as you said, there is not much going on there, since everything is u/c

Google earth screenshots you posted shows the problem well. Golding surroundings is a random mixture of green lands, factories and residentials. And while some of the green spaces can be replaced by urban sprawl some like those near the goldin finance will stay for longer because they are part of the master plan the goldin developers envisioned. And it mostly this master plan that I'm complaining about. Even despite the remote location it could be a nice small district if they wouldn't decide to put huge megatall surrounded by greenery and some spread lowrises. It just looks ridiculous to me but I guess some people like it.

The bottom line is in 20 years time binhai new are will be well prospering modern city while goldin just a single huge tower separated from the rest of the bussiness with tens of kilometers of residential area.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 01:56 PM   #1342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luhai View Post
Overview of Tianjin metro area. (Note the clear line between Xiqing District and Tianjin Center, with nearly no urban sprawl bleeding the line)


Golden 117 and surrounding area


Yujiapu and surrounding area, with exception of TEDA and Yujiapu + Xiangluowan. it's a sea of factory, warehouses and port facilities...


The good things is both projects has metro near by, however neither has one right in the center of the development.
Sea of urbanity & [port-related?] industry .
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Old June 21st, 2013, 09:51 PM   #1343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
From the point of view of a person looking for a place to live right now it probably is better to look for goldin (if you don't mind remote location and 10km distance from the city center) because it will be completed faster. Obviously binhai new are will take longer because it's a huge project. But when it's done it will be completely new city with business district in the center and residential area within 1,5km distance. I'd say it won't need metro connection with the old city because everything will be there, although it will have high speed rail connection and generally much better transit system than goldin. Obviously as you said, there is not much going on there, since everything is u/c

Google earth screenshots you posted shows the problem well. Golding surroundings is a random mixture of green lands, factories and residentials. And while some of the green spaces can be replaced by urban sprawl some like those near the goldin finance will stay for longer because they are part of the master plan the goldin developers envisioned. And it mostly this master plan that I'm complaining about. Even despite the remote location it could be a nice small district if they wouldn't decide to put huge megatall surrounded by greenery and some spread lowrises. It just looks ridiculous to me but I guess some people like it.

The bottom line is in 20 years time binhai new are will be well prospering modern city while goldin just a single huge tower separated from the rest of the bussiness with tens of kilometers of residential area.
I never understood what the planners were thinking in making up the master plan for TJ; it doesn't seem very logically thought out.

They could have easily located Yujiapu and Xiangluowan in the open/low-rise areas close to the current city center, and not having to go through this logistic and financial exercise of moving the entire CBD over a period of decades. Since we see now that there is clearly plenty of low cost real-estate that can be co-opted for that purpose right next to downtown. It doesn't seem to be a logical or economically sound decision from my POV.

What was actually the reasoning that they used to formulate this plan? Any specific reasons that I'm not aware of?
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Old June 21st, 2013, 10:08 PM   #1344
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You underestimate the rate of change and growth in China. Soon the entire area will be urbanized and having two separate big CBDs is better for preventing traffic and overcrowding problems. There's also smaller CBDs being developed ALL OVER THE PLACE including in the "open/low-rise areas close to the current city center", Goldin 117 is but one.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 10:47 PM   #1345
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You underestimate the rate of change and growth in China. Soon the entire area will be urbanized and having two separate big CBDs is better for preventing traffic and overcrowding problems. There's also smaller CBDs being developed ALL OVER THE PLACE including in the "open/low-rise areas close to the current city center", Goldin 117 is but one.
Really; OK, I guess I'm not that familiar with northern china then.

Other large cities in China, it seems, have their new CBD built right next to (or across the river in some cases) to their old CBD. Examples that come to mind are Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chongqing, Shenzhen, etc. I have yet to see a new CBD located 10s of kms away. Just seems a bit odd for me, even among Chinese cities.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 10:52 PM   #1346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardBall View Post
I never understood what the planners were thinking in making up the master plan for TJ; it doesn't seem very logically thought out.

They could have easily located Yujiapu and Xiangluowan in the open/low-rise areas close to the current city center, and not having to go through this logistic and financial exercise of moving the entire CBD over a period of decades. Since we see now that there is clearly plenty of low cost real-estate that can be co-opted for that purpose right next to downtown. It doesn't seem to be a logical or economically sound decision from my POV.

What was actually the reasoning that they used to formulate this plan? Any specific reasons that I'm not aware of?

One of the biggest reasons is to avoid speculators and their attemps to manipulate and extract compensations. They cause delays and cost money .
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Old June 21st, 2013, 11:00 PM   #1347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luhai View Post
Don't be fooled by that rendering, Chinese rendering always like give green fields as background, here is Google maps of that area. It's essentially the edge of town on the western side. Basically if you take a picture from the east you'll see empty fields and low rise warehouses, but you'll see the city in the background if you take picture from west side. The interesting part is this district has a sharp line from urban forest (just scroll to the east a little) and a random section flat farm land to the south. I would actually give it higher probability of success than Yujiapu. Just zoom out and you'll see.

link


Yujiapu Business District on the other hand is actually far less urban, however, it's right next to a EPIC, OMG, WTF, Gigantic shipyard and port. See Google map below.
Link
Beautiful
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 06:12 AM   #1348
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Originally Posted by KillerZavatar View Post
very interesting read luhai. i think with GF117 the area might start urbanizating a lot more though, seeing that also res. buildings are going up.
Yes, there is two school on thought on developing a new city center away from crowded existing one. One is built a whole new city some miles away from the exiting city center, the other built is on the edge of the existing city.

The first method give more freedom of planning, but also carries more risks, and harder to start. (Kangbashi in Ordos, Meixi lake in Changsha, Chenggong in Kunming are examples, but also New Delhi from more than 100 years ago) This is also the idea of Bohai New Area

The Second method is to develop on the edge of existing city, but plan it as a city center. However, the downside is it may not reduce over crowding, and might make the existing city too large to traverse.(Pudong is the most successful example, but it's actually very close existing downtown, after the bridge connection is built, the distance is nil. Beijing CBD is also a good example too* Zhengzhou new area also follows this model)


Tiajin appears to be trying both, Goldin is part of the latter push, and Yujiapu the first one.


*original idea was planted Great Chinese architect Liang Sicheng in the 50s to build a new Beijing Center in the Gongzhufen and keep existing Beijing with it's city wall.. A pity his idea was not adopted, an Old Beijing with a impressive city wall like Xi'an and all its hutong kept, and a New Beijing with modern planing, transportation and buildings must be a sight to see..
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 10:16 PM   #1349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardBall View Post
I never understood what the planners were thinking in making up the master plan for TJ; it doesn't seem very logically thought out.

They could have easily located Yujiapu and Xiangluowan in the open/low-rise areas close to the current city center, and not having to go through this logistic and financial exercise of moving the entire CBD over a period of decades. Since we see now that there is clearly plenty of low cost real-estate that can be co-opted for that purpose right next to downtown. It doesn't seem to be a logical or economically sound decision from my POV.

What was actually the reasoning that they used to formulate this plan? Any specific reasons that I'm not aware of?
because the entire process makes all that land infinitely more valuable.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 08:08 AM   #1350
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Really; OK, I guess I'm not that familiar with northern china then.

Other large cities in China, it seems, have their new CBD built right next to (or across the river in some cases) to their old CBD. Examples that come to mind are Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chongqing, Shenzhen, etc. I have yet to see a new CBD located 10s of kms away. Just seems a bit odd for me, even among Chinese cities.

You really want to give Shenzhen as an example.. ?
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Old June 29th, 2013, 04:26 PM   #1351
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2013-06-28 from feipeng8865

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Old June 30th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #1352
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 06:43 PM   #1353
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 03:06 PM   #1354
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This monster is growing
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Old July 5th, 2013, 06:49 PM   #1355
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Old July 5th, 2013, 06:53 PM   #1356
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It's gone up another floor. Awesome!
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Old July 5th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #1357
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growing not as fast as Ping An but still a good progress!
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Old July 6th, 2013, 07:11 AM   #1358
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GF isn't getting the love as Ping An either, usually count on a page every 2 days with Ping An, GF is lucky to get a pg full every 6 days..
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Old July 6th, 2013, 01:09 PM   #1359
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yeah, that is not how we shoud treat a GF!
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Old July 6th, 2013, 10:56 PM   #1360
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thaaaaank you, barbaric....
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