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Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:34 PM   #2001
volodaaaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
The problem is that this system may also fail and give wrong indication.

It could be even not a green light, but a yellow blinking light - so that the driver will anyway ensure that there is no train approaching (instead of assuming that there will be no train since there is a green light).

But in Germany they also do not have this.

In Poland the indication that the lights/barriers are faulty is a sign placed at the crossing by a railway employee. But there is the time after the system fails and before the employee manages to place the sign - and it's dangerous. Especially at the automatic crossings.

I have read once about a case on one railway line, in which the train wasn't detected by the system and the lights at the crossings weren't activated because the train was too lightweight.

Although the danger is not so high, because at the newly installed systems of lights at level crossings, there are also lights for the train driver, indicating if the train was detected or not (the default state is train not detected) and if the train is not detected, or the lights do not work at all, the train driver is obliged to slow down to 20 km/h and use the horn signal.
Actually, I am interested and also partially working with railway, so I know that, at least in Slovakia, but I am pretty sure that in other more developed countries, the system is as much fail-safe as possible. Over the past 50 years, there has not been a single level-crossing accident in Slovakia caused by technical failure, i. e. it was always the failure of a driver.

In Slovakia there are two alternately flashing red lights in case the train is approaching and also one flashing white light in case the train is not approaching. Technically, the white light also indicates, that no railway
signalling and switches in level crossing perimeter are set for a train.

According to the frequency, track speed limit and number of tracks, there are several variations:
Crossing with red lights, white light and barriers,
crossing with red lights and white light,
crossing with red lights and barriers,
crossing with red lights,
crossing with stop sing,
crossing without stop signs and
there are few manually controlled barrier crossings.

If the train is approaching and pass a certain activation point, the crossing starts to flash and ring. The distance between crossing and activation point differs according to the width of crossing and maximum train speed.

If the crossing is in the perimeter of a station (or yard) that is controlled by dispatcher, the crossing itself is controlled by signalling. E.g. if the dispatcher set a signalling for departing train and the switches are ready, normally the train would be given a green light and would be dispatched. But in case of level crossing the train is given the red light until the crossing is safely cleared (e.g. the slowest possible car - horse carriage - could leave the crossing). If the crossing is faulty, the system itself dispatch the train at speed 30 kph, the dispatcher is acknowledged and he also inform the train driver. The white light (if present) does not flash if the signalling is set, but the train is still far away (e.g. those who are insiders, e. g. me :-D, know, that something is going on).

Outside station, there are two cases. On automatic block, the crossings are connected to train signalling. On other systems, there is a special signal for train driver so that he knows if the forthcoming crossing is working properly.

Btw. in Slovakia, if the white light flashes - a driver is allowed to drive 50 kph through crossing, if is not - a driver is allowed to drive 30 kph. Drivers are strictly prohibited to enter a crossing that still indicates an approaching train even if the train has just left and the barriers are rising.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 11:09 PM   #2002
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we actually had last year one accident caused by failure of signals, and it was in my city. however, it was train operator's fault because he had manual order about failure of they signales at level crossing, but he ignored it and wrecked into a van. after that i always stop in front of each level crossing to check if something is approaching, even if there are lights and/or barriers.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 11:20 PM   #2003
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we actually had last year one accident caused by failure of signals, and it was in my city. however, it was train operator's fault because he had manual order about failure of they signales at level crossing, but he ignored it and wrecked into a van. after that i always stop in front of each level crossing to check if something is approaching, even if there are lights and/or barriers.
Well yes. As I was taught in traffic school, there are two kinds of lights on a railway crossing: red (stop) and white (proceed with caution). There is a reason it is not green.
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 01:30 AM   #2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Well yes. As I was taught in traffic school, there are two kinds of lights on a railway crossing: red (stop) and white (proceed with caution). There is a reason it is not green.
There is also other reason - a train driver should not be confused with agreen light dedicated for road users e. g. at night. AFAIK, there is no flashing-red signal for train driver, but there surely are either shining or flashing green signals.

White signal should work as a double-check. The train is both not approaching and the track is not ready for train (dispatcher does not expect any train approaching the station - no train is indicated on his pane)

given the amber light: I've read the Dutch Highway code and there is mentioned a pedestrian crossing with amber exclamation mark instead of green pedestrian meaning: passing the road at your own risk allowed. However, I have not found a real picture of that.
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Last edited by volodaaaa; January 3rd, 2017 at 01:35 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 03:21 AM   #2005
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In Poland there is a flashing white signal for train drivers. It is so called replacement signal and it's used... when the signal devices fail and it's impossible to give the proper signal to the driver. By the way, it is used much too often and the use of it was one of the reasons of a very big train accident in 2012, when two trains collided face to face.

But a yellow flashing light would be appropriate as the third light for drivers at level crossings, indicating that there should be no train approaching the crossing. Its "natural" meaning is that the driver must be careful, use the road signs and definitely not assume that he has a full right of way, as in the case of the green light.

In the signals for the train drivers, there is a green continuous and a green flashing light, there is also a red continuous light. And there is also a red flashing light, but it's used very rarely - there are only exactly three places in Poland at which it can be used. It means "Stop - it's strictly forbidden to enter the tunnel" and it's used at entrances to tunnels on railway lines with automatic block signalling.

Anyway, we still have many level crossings in Poland, which are operated manually (so that a guy in a booth closes or opens them by pushing a button). If I am not mistaken, manual operation is obligatory if there are more than two tracks at the crossing, and within the stations (but then its connected with the whole signalling system of the station).

Actually we have 6 categories of level crossings:

A - operated manually, secured by lights and full barriers or double-sided half-barriers, on site or remotely (at an over 60 m distance); must be operated on site if the road crosses more then two main tracks or tracks on which shunting takes place; may also be operated from the signal box:


B - operated automatically, secured by lights and single-sided or double-sided (especially if there is high pedestrian traffic) half-barriers, double-sided half-barriers must have a delayed closing of one side:


C - operated automatically, secured by lights only, they are classified as unguarded crossings, so they have St. Andrew cross

B and C category crossings are allowed if there are one or two line tracks, the barriers must start closing 30 seconds (45 seconds for double-sided barriers) before the train crosses the road (A category crossings close usually a few minutes before), if the train speed is high, signals for train drivers informing about the state of the signals for car drivers are used

D - railway-road crossings without barriers and lights, with St. Andrew cross and (not obligatorily) STOP sign

E - pedestrian crossings without barriers and lights, usually with a "maze" forcing the pedestrians to look in both sides if there is no train coming:


F - normally closed, for private use

Level crossing with much pedestrian traffic, those operated remotely and those operated automatically must also have an acoustic signal (usually it's a kind of bell), which must be audible from 30 meters.

An example of a B class crossing with an acoustic signal:



The driver at the beginning of the video does an illegal, but common thing - crosses the crossing when the lights and the acoustic signal are already on.

A C class crossing with an acoustic signal:



The sound of the acoustic signal is not unified and there are different versions.

Again a B class crossing it's probably A class, but operated remotely: there is a camera and a small roof for road and railway signs for use in case the devices fail, also the waiting time is longer than 45 seconds - this time with double-sided barriers - and a cyclist and, later, a tractor driver crossing it illegally:



This must be an A class crossing, manually operated, because there are full barriers (which cannot be used at automatic crossings so that no driver gets trapped between the barriers) and the waiting time for the train after closing the barriers is over two minutes:



Probably a manual - A class - one, without acoustic signalling:


Last edited by Kpc21; January 3rd, 2017 at 03:33 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 01:08 PM   #2006
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Last summer I was on vacation in Salou, and there was a dangerous railway crossing next to the station. It was so dangerous because sometimes the warning sound and lights started 3 minutes before the train crosses, and other times just a few seconds before, and also sometimes the trains cross at low speed (because the station is just next to the crossing, it is so close to the station that a platform starts on the crossing) and sometimes the trains crossed at a high speed (when they didn't stop at the station). It was on the city center, so many people cross every day through it, and a lot of them when the lights are already on.
Here are some videos about the crossing:






Street View: https://www.google.es/maps/@41.07779...7i13312!8i6656
OSM: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/30....07749/1.13080
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 02:12 PM   #2007
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It's funny how they still have that tractor sign in central Warsaw It's quite unusual especially around all the skyscrapers

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Old January 3rd, 2017, 07:38 PM   #2008
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What about this sign in Łódź then?

https://goo.gl/maps/H6apScsWWJ72



By the way, it's interesting why the tractors are forbidden just here and not in other streets.

And they can enter this street anyway, doing a small detour...



So actually only a short section of the street is forbidden for tractors and horse carts (and in Poland if I happen to see a horse cart on the street, it happens maybe once a few years, it's really a rare view - except for places where horse carriages are used for touristic purposes, but the only places in Poland I know where it happens is the Old Town in Kraków and the road to Morskie Oko lake in the Tatras).
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 10:47 PM   #2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliszydlowski View Post
It's funny how they still have that tractor sign in central Warsaw It's quite unusual especially around all the skyscrapers
In 2006 farmers demonstrated several times in Budapest. In order to make it impossible without banning the demonstration itself, the government let a lot of that sign installed in the streets of Budapest, especially in the ones directed to governmental offices.

Those signes were removed in 2010.
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 11:00 PM   #2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
In 2006 farmers demonstrated several times in Budapest. In order to make it impossible without banning the demonstration itself, the government let a lot of that sign installed in the streets of Budapest, especially in the ones directed to governmental offices.

Those signes were removed in 2010.
What a trolling
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 11:25 PM   #2011
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Unusual road sign if you ask me:

https://goo.gl/maps/kErSz8ZWAhz
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Old January 4th, 2017, 11:02 PM   #2012
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What a trolling
The authorities under the ex-communist Gyurcsány government back then actually meant it serious. Some of the signs were updated to "no entry for Gyurcsány" though:

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Old January 4th, 2017, 11:30 PM   #2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
There is also other reason - a train driver should not be confused with agreen light dedicated for road users e. g. at night. AFAIK, there is no flashing-red signal for train driver, but there surely are either shining or flashing green signals.

White signal should work as a double-check. The train is both not approaching and the track is not ready for train (dispatcher does not expect any train approaching the station - no train is indicated on his pane)

given the amber light: I've read the Dutch Highway code and there is mentioned a pedestrian crossing with amber exclamation mark instead of green pedestrian meaning: passing the road at your own risk allowed. However, I have not found a real picture of that.
It does exist, in the city the light after: Delft.
Streetview 2009 (removed during construction now): https://goo.gl/maps/DR5bz8xmVaF2
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Old May 31st, 2017, 03:29 PM   #2014
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Chestnuts falling during autumn (Turin, Italy)

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Old June 20th, 2017, 08:46 AM   #2015
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[/URL]

Literal translate to english: Penisville
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Old June 20th, 2017, 11:00 AM   #2016
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The other day I came across this sign:


(Warning, cows inside the tunnel)

Location: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1457...7i13312!8i6656

Actually, in certain times of the year it's very common to find cows lying on the tarmac as it usually gets warmer than the grass. But I'm guessing that in hot summer days they prefer the shade inside the tunnel.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 01:31 PM   #2017
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Last week-end I was in Rome and I have seen this weird sign (Google Street View link as I didn't take a picture of it). What does it want to say? 35 ql is an italian weight measurement unit?
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Old June 20th, 2017, 02:23 PM   #2018
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It's "quintal" so 3,5 tonnes.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 03:03 PM   #2019
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It's "quintal" so 3,5 tonnes.
That sign must be pretty old, as the quintal was abolished in the 1990s and now only ton is used.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 05:14 PM   #2020
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Not so much, as far the pictogram and font of the sign are related to the actual "new" Highway Code (of 1992).

I think that is a irregular signs, and also wrong or unuseful... because, according to the current Highway Code, the lorry/truck pictogram means itself "over 3,5 tons";
So, a correct sign, wuold be the normal speed limit sign with addictional panel with only the lorry pictogram
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