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Old July 2nd, 2010, 04:27 AM   #361
Penn's Woods
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Systčme International
What's that, an international signage standard initiated by the French? Just what we need.... :-P
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:35 AM   #362
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What's that, an international signage standard initiated by the French? Just what we need.... :-P
Actually, that's something we Anglophones call the metric system and all associated standards.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 10:10 AM   #363
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What's that, an international signage standard initiated by the French? Just what we need.... :-P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 12:33 PM   #364
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In North America basically all speak English, even the french speaking inhabitants of Canada.
Where did you get that idea from?
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 12:49 PM   #365
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I like how Mecca has blatantly discriminatory signs:




God how terrible, and I thought america was ****ed up
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 03:10 PM   #366
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God how terrible, and I thought america was ****ed up
Only Muslims are allowed in the pilgrimage area. Just like only Mormons are allowed in Mormon temples, only Catholics are allowed to receive Communion in Catholic churches, only Jews are allowed to participate in certain portions of the synagogue service. Any religion...any sort of group, I suppose...is going to have some things that are only open to "insiders." Just think of the pilgrimage area as a really enormous insider-only zone, because of the numbers of people participating....
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 04:54 PM   #367
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:05 PM   #368
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It's not that hard. Red means no passing is allowed. Everybody in Europe knows that, because our signs are all the same (give or take a few national variants).
Yes but an American driving in Europe doesn't since our signs are different - and often we just use different lines to indicate passing or not. Dashed line can be crossed if it's safe, solid line should not be crossed, double solid line cannot be crossed, a solid and dashed line together can be crossed from the dashed side but not the solid side. (And I think European roads are marked similarly, but white only)

The left-hand sign is used most often on the downhill side of a 3x1 road on a hill, with 2 lanes uphill and one downhill. The right-hand sign is used on 2x1 roads where the dashed centerline changes to a solid+dashed line and passing is no longer allowed, and is placed on the left-hand side of the road so as to be more easily seen by vehicles as they pass slower ones. The shape of this sign also is used to indicate a right-hand arrow, as in, MERGE RIGHT.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:09 PM   #369
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Yep, but you can't indicate truck passing bans with road markings, you still need signs.

I have to agree some European signs look weird when you seen them for the first time (for example the no parking / no stopping sign or the sign for a priority road), but you learn these. There's a big advantage, because pictorial signs, once you know them, are faster to get than text, and they are all the same throughout Europe, and also in other continents like Asia and Africa.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:13 PM   #370
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Only once have I seen a place where trucks (apart from weight limits) had different rules from other vehicles, and that's on a section of Interstate 40 in North Carolina where the highway is going down a mountain and takes an extremely sharp left turn - Cars had a speed limit of 55 MPH (90 km/hr) and trucks had a speed limit of 35 MPH (55 km/hr).
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:16 PM   #371
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In Europe, trucks are usually limited to 50 or 55 mph (60 in the UK), while the rest of traffic flows at 75 or 80 mph. This often leads to trucks passing each other with 2 mph difference, causing long queues behind it, something you don't want on busy 2x2 freeways.

European trucks can get 70 - 80 mph, but they are all electronically limited at around 50 - 55 mph, so they don't have some extra margin to pass another colleague quicker.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:17 PM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I have to agree some European signs look weird when you seen them for the first time (for example the no parking / no stopping sign or the sign for a priority road), but you learn these. There's a big advantage, because pictorial signs, once you know them, are faster to get than text, and they are all the same throughout Europe, and also in other continents like Asia and Africa.
The "No parking" sign looks to me like it just says "No!" but it doesn't say anything about what kind of "no" - and the no stopping sign is similarly "SERIOUSLY. NO!" The blank yellow diamond (if that's the priority sign you're talking about) doesn't communicate anything at all to me.

But since I know about European signs, those points now only apply to other Americans in Europe, not to me.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:20 PM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In Europe, trucks are usually limited to 50 or 55 mph (60 in the UK), while the rest of traffic flows at 75 or 80 mph. This often leads to trucks passing each other with 2 mph difference, causing long queues behind it, something you don't want on busy 2x2 freeways.

European trucks can get 70 - 80 mph, but they are all electronically limited at around 50 - 55 mph, so they don't have some extra margin to pass another colleague quicker.
The American situation on electronic nannies in trucks is much more inconsistent. http://www.atri-online.org/research/...rnorSurvey.pdf
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 06:38 PM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
Yes but an American driving in Europe doesn't since our signs are different
Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood
The "No parking" sign looks to me like it just says "No!" but it doesn't say anything about what kind of "no" - and the no stopping sign is similarly "SERIOUSLY. NO!" The blank yellow diamond (if that's the priority sign you're talking about) doesn't communicate anything at all to me.

But since I know about European signs, those points now only apply to other Americans in Europe, not to me.
Okay, seriously - If I understand you correctly you are implying that an average American would prefer such signs over standard European no passing/no parking symbols:



...because contrary to our current signs those are fully understandable to an average American who just have rented a car and is cruising comfortably around Kraków or Gdańsk.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 06:43 PM   #375
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They work well enough for us here...
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 08:41 PM   #376
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Well yes but you said:
Quote:
Yes but an American driving in Europe doesn't since our signs are different
If there were text-only signs in Polish, Greek or Bulgarian, the problem would be bigger. Or maybe you'd like all countries having English text-only signs for all circumstances?
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 11:05 PM   #377
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IMO we can all agree on one conclusion:
  • US: everybody speaks English so text-signs work very well
  • Europe: current signs work perfectly because of so many languages in this area
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 11:10 PM   #378
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Actually 35 million Americans primarily speak Spanish. That is like 12% of the population and is only bound to increase.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 11:24 PM   #379
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Yes, that is true, but many of those 12% also speak English and I don't think that are many US citizens that don't know English even at a basic level.

And even if they don't speak English they are used with the text-based signs. In Europe we have about 30 languages so I don't think that it would be easy for you if you come to Romania to see signs that say "Depășirea interzisă", "Interzis virajul la stânga", "Trecere de pietoni", "Sens giratoriu" or "Cedează trecerea" (ok, maybe for you it would be easy because you are a road-geek, but for an avarage Dutch driver it won't).
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 11:30 PM   #380
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I insist, if roads signs are to be text instead of graphic (or a combination thereof) the text should be in the country's official language and in English. Simple as that.
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